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Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Wrapup: Flyers End 2023 with Loss in Calgary, Phantoms Lose to Charlotte
Author Message
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Jan 2 @ 11:28 AM ET
Agreed, he is not really hurting things, and he needs to learn the spacing and speed at the NHL level.
- TheFreak


In my opinion, and I preface this with stating that I know very little about the Flyers skill coaches. or how much time they actually get with a player during a season. I think the Flyers would benefit from a different mix of assistant coaches. I just don't see the offensive design in the Flyers game that I see with other teams. I don't know if Tortorella would be even open to changing some of the non negotiables he has in his system to allow an offensive assistant to come in and tweak things. Tortorella clearly knows how to coach defensive play and checking. His weakness is offensive play and transition offense as well as attack schemes in the offensive zone. Both at 5 on 5 and on the PP. When you look at 5 on 5 goals and PP goals scored combined. The Flyers are in the bottom 5 in the league. Mainly because of the PP.
dubc55
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 10.25.2014

Jan 2 @ 11:29 AM ET
Just a poor showing for the team for the whole tournament. They never felt like they were a real threat at all. Some bad calls, and some really sloppy, poor play.
- TheFreak


Definitely one of my least favorite Canadian junior teams roster selected in quite awhile. Although, to be fair, a lot of Canada's top eligible players are playing in the NHL. A few question marks though.

They really could have used a player like Riley Heidt, shocked he wasn't selected. His tenacity and pace without the dumb penalties is exactly what you need in a player for this tournament. Oh and his 2pts per game. Andrew Cristall not being selected was another surprise to me, not sure if there was an injury or something 🤔 I don't know why he wasn't on the team.

Having our mid 2nd round pick G Carson Bjarnason (who we moved up to select) not make Team Canada, kind of made the Flyers look like they reached at that pick. In my eyes, he was a 4th-5th round pick. But we moved up to pick him in the 2nd round. Hockey Canada picked 2 UNDRAFTED goalies and a 5th rounder instead. Ouch. There were still many better prospects on the board midway through the 2nd round.
jd250
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.12.2018

Jan 2 @ 11:29 AM ET
Would Foerster benefit some time in the AHL to find his offensive game? He's scoring like a 4th liner with almost half the season gone despite being gifted mostly top line usage.
- Feanor

I don't think he would benefit under Lappy at this point. I think he would benefit more spending extra time in his morning skates developing his shot to be more accurate at game speeds. At least that is what I would be working on if I were him. We used to do drills where we skated top speed down a wing, take a pass and fire it towards a target. I wasn't that good at this one
MBFlyerfan
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Be nice from now on, NJ
Joined: 03.17.2006

Jan 2 @ 11:29 AM ET
Really? I can do that on 1 leg
- jd250


Is that.....LUDICROUS speed?
TheFreak
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Duncan, BC
Joined: 12.06.2019

Jan 2 @ 11:32 AM ET
I don’t dislike MJL. I don’t have a dog in this race. My point is, if I’m in JD’s shoes, I would really hate this guy. MJL is clearly a smart and knowledgeable fan but stubborn. If you don’t see eye to eye, we seen this mess for hours on end everyday. I imagine JD is a very young adult and MJL being a middle aged man. So where is the challenge in arguing with JD?
- roenick97


I don't have a problem with either of them, and my post was not meant in a negative way to each of them. Just saying. I tend to agree with MJL more often than not in whatever the discussion is about, I just don't alway like the way the message is stated. JD is the other way...I don't agree with his POV very often, but he seems nice enough.

LOL..fits the bigger brother, little brother scenario.
ClaudeFather
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: west haven, CT
Joined: 08.14.2015

Jan 2 @ 11:32 AM ET
Would you put that on the Canada goalie? Deflection out pretty early, he damn near slid out of the whole net. [/img]
Phillywhiteout
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: West Chester, PA
Joined: 08.11.2020

Jan 2 @ 11:35 AM ET
The games should be on ESPN+. NHL is so dumb most of the time.
- mickel25
The games are on the NHL Network.

dubc55
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 10.25.2014

Jan 2 @ 11:37 AM ET
Would Foerster benefit some time in the AHL to find his offensive game? He's scoring like a 4th liner with almost half the season gone despite being gifted mostly top line usage.
- Feanor


Yes, he should have been developing in the AHL from the start of the season. With some call ups.
Phillywhiteout
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: West Chester, PA
Joined: 08.11.2020

Jan 2 @ 11:40 AM ET
Just a poor showing for the team for the whole tournament. They never felt like they were a real threat at all. Some bad calls, and some really sloppy, poor play.
- TheFreak
They weren't really expected to be that good in this tournament from what I heard. Steve Kouleas gonna be pissed when the Americans win Gold!!
Phillywhiteout
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: West Chester, PA
Joined: 08.11.2020

Jan 2 @ 11:41 AM ET
Would Foerster benefit some time in the AHL to find his offensive game? He's scoring like a 4th liner with almost half the season gone despite being gifted mostly top line usage.
- Feanor
It's almost time to sh!t or get off the pot with him. He's still around because of the rest of his game, but Jesus, score a friggin goal once in awhile.
dubc55
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 10.25.2014

Jan 2 @ 11:44 AM ET
Is that.....LUDICROUS speed?

- MBFlyerfan


🤣
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Jan 2 @ 11:54 AM ET
It's almost time to sh!t or get off the pot with him. He's still around because of the rest of his game, but Jesus, score a friggin goal once in awhile.
- Phillywhiteout


It's time for a rookie with 43 NHL games played to poop or get off the pot? I guess that depends on what is meant by that. Patience is what is warranted, not urgency.
Phillywhiteout
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: West Chester, PA
Joined: 08.11.2020

Jan 2 @ 11:58 AM ET
It's time for a rookie with 43 NHL games played to poop or get off the pot? I guess that depends on what is meant by that. Patience is what is warranted, not urgency.
- MJL
I was referring to the guy that asked if maybe a little AHL seasoning would hurt him. I'm certainly not referring to sh!tting or getting off the pot about his career as a whole. Maybe send him down for a couple weeks and let him gain some confidence with his shot in a league where he'll have more time to get it off. No biggie either way cause he plays a 200 foot game, but for a guy that's supposed to be a shooter it hasn't gone well for him lately.
mr4tno
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: PA
Joined: 06.29.2017

Jan 2 @ 12:10 PM ET
Definitely one of my least favorite Canadian junior teams roster selected in quite awhile. Although, to be fair, a lot of Canada's top eligible players are playing in the NHL. A few question marks though.

They really could have used a player like Riley Heidt, shocked he wasn't selected. His tenacity and pace without the dumb penalties is exactly what you need in a player for this tournament. Oh and his 2pts per game. Andrew Cristall not being selected was another surprise to me, not sure if there was an injury or something 🤔 I don't know why he wasn't on the team.

Having our mid 2nd round pick G Carson Bjarnason (who we moved up to select) not make Team Canada, kind of made the Flyers look like they reached at that pick. In my eyes, he was a 4th-5th round pick. But we moved up to pick him in the 2nd round. Hockey Canada picked 2 UNDRAFTED goalies and a 5th rounder instead. Ouch. There were still many better prospects on the board midway through the 2nd round.

- dubc55

Personally, I don't think DB had a good first draft....he was gifted his first round pick
ClaudeFather
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: west haven, CT
Joined: 08.14.2015

Jan 2 @ 12:19 PM ET
Personally, I don't think DB had a good first draft....he was gifted his first round pick
- mr4tno

Still had to make the pick, easy choice was just to take leonard
jd250
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.12.2018

Jan 2 @ 12:21 PM ET
In my opinion, and I preface this with stating that I know very little about the Flyers skill coaches. or how much time they actually get with a player during a season. I think the Flyers would benefit from a different mix of assistant coaches. I just don't see the offensive design in the Flyers game that I see with other teams. I don't know if Tortorella would be even open to changing some of the non negotiables he has in his system to allow an offensive assistant to come in and tweak things. Tortorella clearly knows how to coach defensive play and checking. His weakness is offensive play and transition offense as well as attack schemes in the offensive zone. Both at 5 on 5 and on the PP. When you look at 5 on 5 goals and PP goals scored combined. The Flyers are in the bottom 5 in the league. Mainly because of the PP.
- MJL

I agree with you to some extent. The difference between winning and losing games in the NHL often comes down to 1 goal. If the Flyers had a PP that clicked at 18%, which is still below league average, they would have one of the best records in the league right now. I understand and appreciate that Torts likes to delegate responsibility to his assistant coaches, but at some point the assistants have to be held accountable. It's been 1 1/2 years since Rocky Thompson has taken over the forwards and PP. Last year the PP clicked at 15% and currently it's at 10%. At some point a head coach has got to say I need another voice here, no matter how much he likes Thompson. I'm not saying fire Thompson. Instead bring in a consultant to specifically work on the PP. As far as I know this has not happened and if true that is on Torts.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Jan 2 @ 12:22 PM ET
Personally, I don't think DB had a good first draft....he was gifted his first round pick
- mr4tno



How do you know?
MBFlyerfan
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Be nice from now on, NJ
Joined: 03.17.2006

Jan 2 @ 12:29 PM ET
Personally, I don't think DB had a good first draft....he was gifted his first round pick
- mr4tno


While it is still too early to judge. I think DB's first draft was excellent.

Michkov no brainer of course.

Bonk made team Canada (yes, I know how they ended up) as an 18 year old, which is very rare, and played a regular shift. Personally I would have rather they chose Perreault, but Bonk looks like the real deal.

Barkey is lighting it up in juniors and was the last cut for the WJC-20 team, again, as an 18 year old. He, like Bonk, are shoe-ins for next year's team IMO.

Ciernik was playing for Slovakia in the WJC, again as a 19 year old, until he got hurt and declared out for the rest of the tournament.
jd250
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.12.2018

Jan 2 @ 12:30 PM ET
I don't have a problem with either of them, and my post was not meant in a negative way to each of them. Just saying. I tend to agree with MJL more often than not in whatever the discussion is about, I just don't alway like the way the message is stated. JD is the other way...I don't agree with his POV very often, but he seems nice enough.

LOL..fits the bigger brother, little brother scenario.

- TheFreak

Firstly, thank you! I would like to think I am nice enough, but I know I have my bad moments also. The thing is, I'm fine if you don't agree with me. Often this is better because I end up learning a different perspective. What I don't like is if someone disagrees with me simply to disagree with me. That's when it gets personal, like for example, we all know JD doesn't know how to evaluate players so therefore he must be wrong.
jd250
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.12.2018

Jan 2 @ 12:34 PM ET
NP


See, you learned.

- MJL


jd250
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.12.2018

Jan 2 @ 12:37 PM ET
While it is still too early to judge. I think DB's first draft was excellent.

Michkov no brainer of course.

Bonk made team Canada (yes, I know how they ended up) as an 18 year old, which is very rare, and played a regular shift. Personally I would have rather they chose Perreault, but Bonk looks like the real deal.

Barkey is lighting it up in juniors and was the last cut for the WJC-20 team, again, as an 18 year old. He, like Bonk, are shoe-ins for next year's team IMO.

Ciernik was playing for Slovakia in the WJC, again as a 19 year old, until he got hurt and declared out for the rest of the tournament.

- MBFlyerfan

This is where I differ from you in this post. Yes if all things were equal I would easily pick Michkov over Leonard, but when you factor in the Russian element, that is where it's not a no brainer. Leonard is really good also.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Jan 2 @ 12:40 PM ET
This is where I differ from you in this post. Yes if all things were equal I would easily pick Michkov over Leonard, but when you factor in the Russian element, that is where it's not a no brainer. Leonard is really good also.
- jd250


The Russian element isn't the factor that you make it out to be. I want more than really good. I want elite.
MBFlyerfan
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Be nice from now on, NJ
Joined: 03.17.2006

Jan 2 @ 12:42 PM ET
This is where I differ from you in this post. Yes if all things were equal I would easily pick Michkov over Leonard, but when you factor in the Russian element, that is where it's not a no brainer. Leonard is really good also.
- jd250



You and I differ that the Russian element is a factor. But I get your point. All things being equal, Michkov and Leonard aren't even in the same stratosphere as players. That is not a knock on Leonard, it's more that Michkov is closer to Bedard/generational IMO.
jd250
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.12.2018

Jan 2 @ 12:49 PM ET
You and I differ that the Russian element is a factor. But I get your point. All things being equal, Michkov and Leonard aren't even in the same stratosphere as players. That is not a knock on Leonard, it's more that Michkov is closer to Bedard/generational IMO.
- MBFlyerfan

I hope you are right ... I read an article comparing Michkov to Kaprizov in terms of his current scoring pace this season. That would be pretty nice!
jd250
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.12.2018

Jan 2 @ 12:53 PM ET
The Russian element isn't the factor that you make it out to be. I want more than really good. I want elite.
- MJL

I hope it's not a factor at all, but until Michkov is playing for the Flyers I am holding my breath.

I don't know if you have been watching the WJCs but if so, how do you think Leonard looks? I can tell you at every BC game I have attended this season, you notice this kid every time he is on the ice, even more so than Gauthier. I know there was some speculation as to who drives the play for the Leonard-Smith-Perreault line, but from my perspective it's pretty obvious; its Leonard. But hey, if Michkov is playing for the Flyers in 2026 I will be pretty happy.
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