I went to bed at 3-2 and knew exactly what would happen. Where's the instagram reel with the woman singing "surprise surprise" and all four Flames goals?

Bad bounces.
Bad play.
Bad mojo.
Bad habits.

Not getting fixed with a knee jerk trade.
Not getting fixed with two retread (nice guys) interim coaches.

Nobody wants Kubalik. Maybe you convince Tarasenko to waive for some picks. Maybe someone needs Korpisalo badly enough. Otherwise, buckle up. It's gonna get uglier.

\
Gruden is not nor would not be a Toronto castoff. He is coaching his first season with the Marlies and has no previous Toronto connections. But he does have connections with Staios and Andlauer from the past. And he learned coaching from 2 of the best recent history coaches in Trotz and Montgomery.
- OttawaB

Gruden seems to be an excellent candidate.
I am not worried about him having any Toronto stink on him. Just don't have any DJ Smith or Dorion stink on him.

Stutzle on the empty net has me believing something is wrong with him. Thinks he has to do everything himself or something. It was such an awkward giveaway.

I was pretty firm that just firing DJ Smith and replacing him and the staff with anybody would have been better than keeping him around. This team seems to be doing everything in their power to prove that wrong. Martin and co can’t seem to get anything going with any of these games on a consistent basis. It’s truly flabbergasting to watch. I don’t think there has been a time in my years of being a fan where I am not even excited when the team scores a goal. You just know they are going to negate that minutes later with some sloppy play.

As for the boos, they are for everyone. Not just the players. Fans were chanting Fire DJ multiple games. Fans are stick of it all. If the players didn’t like boos a month or two ago, they might be in for worse with their current stretch of games. It’s one thing to lose, it’s another to look like you just don’t want to improve the overall play at all. I am tired of seeing disappointed faces on the bench when they play the same way and make the same mistakes over and over. The habits need to be broken.

Fans have been behind this team for quite a while. Don’t blame the fans for anything at this juncture. Hard-earned cash is spent on this product over and over. Today, people should probably be using money elsewhere, but we still love the team, support it, and throw our money that way. I think any finger pointing at fans breaking these millionaire’s spirit is cowardly when you watch these games. We are still watching these games and going to games.

This organization keeps throwing nostalgia in our faces to mask the sorry state of the current team. I’m getting over it. It’s going to be a long season. I think there is opportunity with a good portion of this roster, but it certainly looks like the current mix of players just isn’t working and some guys just aren’t buying into it/or anything. Going to be an interesting time by the time October 2024 rolls around.

46 more to go.
14 more losses should end their anxiety of making the playoffs, and can start playing good.

27-17-2 , is my prediction for final 46
41- 39- 2 for the season. Giving it a fools gold appearance once again

To be fair, i thought they played a good 40 minutes last night.

BREAKING NEWS:
They really need a goalie to steal a game, to help turn this misery around

To be fair, i thought they played a good 40 minutes last night.

BREAKING NEWS:
They really need a goalie to steal a game, to help turn this misery around
- spazzbot

I agree. But. Do be doubly fair---they have been. Some of the saves these two goalies have made could be candidates for saves of the year. And then...you get -4 from your captain. (who is a fantastic captain and I love the guy) but damnit. What a funk they're in.

Stutzle on the empty net has me believing something is wrong with him. Thinks he has to do everything himself or something. It was such an awkward giveaway.
- PogBoi

People forget just how good Daigle was for the Sens in the beginning. But, it came to the point where fans and coaches wanted to win and they wanted Daigle to be more responsible. At first, he tried harder. But, the more he tried the more out of place he looked. He started to become the subject of intense criticism and he responded by saying he did not care. There were other things more important than hockey.

A lot of what is happening today reminds me of the Daigle experience.

I believe the players have gone sour on the franchise and on the fans. Maybe, we as fans don't deserve it. But, clearly, these guys have disappeared since DJ was fired. More important, I think they saw the writing on the wall and started failing when the club hired Jacques Martin as an advisor. Players intuitively know when management makes the moves in another direction.

This is complicated stuff. It is not an easy fix. Nobody signed on for this. Fans want to boycott the team, we hear rumblings of players who want out. It is a mess.

But let's also be clear. There were strong cautions from many voices saying firing TJ would be a grave error. Part of the healing that may be needed is a simple acknowledgment that firing TJ precipitated this collapse. Perhaps, contrary to popular belief TJ made have had them performing above their level.

None of this should be a surprise. It happens all the time.

I was pretty firm that just firing DJ Smith and replacing him and the staff with anybody would have been better than keeping him around. This team seems to be doing everything in their power to prove that wrong. Martin and co can’t seem to get anything going with any of these games on a consistent basis. It’s truly flabbergasting to watch. I don’t think there has been a time in my years of being a fan where I am not even excited when the team scores a goal. You just know they are going to negate that minutes later with some sloppy play.

As for the boos, they are for everyone. Not just the players. Fans were chanting Fire DJ multiple games. Fans are stick of it all. If the players didn’t like boos a month or two ago, they might be in for worse with their current stretch of games. It’s one thing to lose, it’s another to look like you just don’t want to improve the overall play at all. I am tired of seeing disappointed faces on the bench when they play the same way and make the same mistakes over and over. The habits need to be broken.

Fans have been behind this team for quite a while. Don’t blame the fans for anything at this juncture. Hard-earned cash is spent on this product over and over. Today, people should probably be using money elsewhere, but we still love the team, support it, and throw our money that way. I think any finger pointing at fans breaking these millionaire’s spirit is cowardly when you watch these games. We are still watching these games and going to games.

This organization keeps throwing nostalgia in our faces to mask the sorry state of the current team. I’m getting over it. It’s going to be a long season. I think there is opportunity with a good portion of this roster, but it certainly looks like the current mix of players just isn’t working and some guys just aren’t buying into it/or anything. Going to be an interesting time by the time October 2024 rolls around.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

Great post.

People forget just how good Daigle was for the Sens in the beginning. But, it came to the point where fans and coaches wanted to win and they wanted Daigle to be more responsible. At first, he tried harder. But, the more he tried the more out of place he looked. He started to become the subject of intense criticism and he responded by saying he did not care. There were other things more important than hockey.

A lot of what is happening today reminds me of the Daigle experience.

I believe the players have gone sour on the franchise and on the fans. Maybe, we as fans don't deserve it. But, clearly, these guys have disappeared since DJ was fired. More important, I think they saw the writing on the wall and started failing when the club hired Jacques Martin as an advisor. Players intuitively know when management makes the moves in another direction.

This is complicated stuff. It is not an easy fix. Nobody signed on for this. Fans want to boycott the team, we hear rumblings of players who want out. It is a mess.

But let's also be clear. There were strong cautions from many voices saying firing TJ would be a grave error. Part of the healing that may be needed is a simple acknowledgment that firing TJ precipitated this collapse. Perhaps, contrary to popular belief TJ made have had them performing above their level.

None of this should be a surprise. It happens all the time.
- spatso

I mean, there should be no reason for the players to sour on the fans and management. After all,

THEY GOT PAID..ALL OF THEM.

The team has two options:

1) Call it a season, improve where you can roster wise, and hire a coach that inspires the team to play the right way (Like tocchet). The team on paper is simply put: stacked (outside of goaltending…so finding value around the edges shouldn’t be too difficult, especially with pinto coming back)

2) Make some impactful and hard decisions with the roster: The reality is we’ve now squandered two really good “rostered” seasons for nothing and if guys are getting paid all the money but no results to back it up, then maybe Staios should look at dealing guys like Norris, Batherson, chabot, giroux, Joseph. The East has a lot of competitive teams right now that can use improvements..there could be some serious bidding wars going on. Obviously some of the names I mentioned may require off season talks, but they should keep all options opened.

Finally, I’m sick of all the DJ talk. He was a terrible coach, and when guys start going to the media and talking about how “he’s not going anywhere”, “we love playing for him”..well then you gotta ask yourself why do a group of players enjoy playing for a losing coach? Maybe it’s because he’s too “buddy buddy” with everyone and doesn’t hold anyone accountable for anything.

As Sens fans, we need to throw in the towel for the year and just look forward to the deadline/draft.

It’s unfortunate how hard this team has fallen off, but start changing the mentality for the year.

8 games below .500 and their games in hand mean nothing.

They rank 30th in league!!

You can’t St. Louis blues your way to the cup with this team…especially with the random goaltending we’ve been getting.

Korp: .887, Fors: .889

Blackwood: .890

That should tell you all you need to know.

As Sens fans, we need to throw in the towel for the year and just look forward to the deadline/draft.

It’s unfortunate how hard this team has fallen off, but start changing the mentality for the year.

8 games below .500 and their games in hand mean nothing.

They rank 30th in league!!

You can’t St. Louis blues your way to the cup with this team…especially with the random goaltending we’ve been getting.

Korp: .887, Fors: .889

Blackwood: .890

That should tell you all you need to know.
- Trilla

Sad to say, but agree. This team going on a winning streak at this point would be bad juju. If we end up with the 10th-15th overall pick this year because they find their groove, it's gonna be worse for the team long run. I'd rather own a tank and gain an undeniable asset than land in the mushy middle and draft another middle six hopeful.

People forget just how good Daigle was for the Sens in the beginning. But, it came to the point where fans and coaches wanted to win and they wanted Daigle to be more responsible. At first, he tried harder. But, the more he tried the more out of place he looked. He started to become the subject of intense criticism and he responded by saying he did not care. There were other things more important than hockey.

A lot of what is happening today reminds me of the Daigle experience.

I believe the players have gone sour on the franchise and on the fans. Maybe, we as fans don't deserve it. But, clearly, these guys have disappeared since DJ was fired. More important, I think they saw the writing on the wall and started failing when the club hired Jacques Martin as an advisor. Players intuitively know when management makes the moves in another direction.

This is complicated stuff. It is not an easy fix. Nobody signed on for this. Fans want to boycott the team, we hear rumblings of players who want out. It is a mess.

But let's also be clear. There were strong cautions from many voices saying firing TJ would be a grave error. Part of the healing that may be needed is a simple acknowledgment that firing TJ precipitated this collapse. Perhaps, contrary to popular belief TJ made have had them performing above their level.

None of this should be a surprise. It happens all the time.
- spatso

Or more likely daigle was just not that good of a player.
Yzerman suffered the wrath of coach and fans in the beginning in detroit. But he listened and implemented. Ended up winning many cups ,became a hall of famer. Thats how great players respond.
Bad overpaid players prefer to turtle and just dissappear and find exscuses.
Thats a bizarre unfounded ideology to think the players dislike the team and the fans.
As far as a collapse as you say this season from firing the coach, oddly they have almost an identical record as last season minus a few loser points . So not much has changed yet. Neither a collapse or advancement.
Overall i can't distuingish if your a provocateur or you believe what you type. Not that it matters. Both taken with a grain of salt.

I don't expect this team to go on any sort of a winning streak. I look forward to pics of Brady showing up in Florida and getting hammered as he cheers his brother on.
Until these players move past the past, and learns how to play as a team and play some defence, then nothing changes. Playing defence will require a lot more hard work. I don't know which players are up for the task. Although the stick manufacturers for Stutzle will love it. Its about the only thing Stu is doing correctly and with accuracy ..... hitting the goal post with his stick.

I look forward to a top 3 draft pick (although with Senator luck the lottery drops them to 5th). Hopefully a trade or 2 brings in another 1rst or 2nd round pick.

The first thing that needs to change is the body language the players visibly show. It gives the opposition confidence that the Sens are about to fold.

Maybe hire a few psychologists to sit down with the players and teach them how to handle and overcome adversity (seriously) and gain confidence.

People forget just how good Daigle was for the Sens in the beginning. But, it came to the point where fans and coaches wanted to win and they wanted Daigle to be more responsible. At first, he tried harder. But, the more he tried the more out of place he looked. He started to become the subject of intense criticism and he responded by saying he did not care. There were other things more important than hockey.

A lot of what is happening today reminds me of the Daigle experience.

I believe the players have gone sour on the franchise and on the fans. Maybe, we as fans don't deserve it. But, clearly, these guys have disappeared since DJ was fired. More important, I think they saw the writing on the wall and started failing when the club hired Jacques Martin as an advisor. Players intuitively know when management makes the moves in another direction.

This is complicated stuff. It is not an easy fix. Nobody signed on for this. Fans want to boycott the team, we hear rumblings of players who want out. It is a mess.

But let's also be clear. There were strong cautions from many voices saying firing TJ would be a grave error. Part of the healing that may be needed is a simple acknowledgment that firing TJ precipitated this collapse. Perhaps, contrary to popular belief TJ made have had them performing above their level.

None of this should be a surprise. It happens all the time.
- spatso

So……

- coaching doesn’t really matter, but changing the coach has caused the players to completely shut down.

- Staios wasn’t patient enough and should’ve waited longer to find a coach, even though he clearly hired an interm coach, which was the most patient option he had.

- The “kids” (who have all gotten paid) are so soft, that one game of booing (the coach) has caused them all to shut down and give up on the team, the city, and the fans.

- there are ‘rumblings’ that players want out

- everything was going to work out if they just didn’t fire TJ

- Stutzle is the next Daige

Do you even read the nonsense you write? This team was screwed because they didn’t fire DJ earlier, now it’s going to take that much longer to work out the bad habits. The season was already lost. The hope now is the new coach next year is given a clean slate.

This is not the fans fault. Fans have a right to be frustrated, as this is year 7 and the team looked ready to compete on paper in spite of DJ. Sadly they weren’t , and now they’re leading the opposite system where defence matters and you can’t run and gun as much as you want.

Bringing in a solid sports psychologist is not a bad idea. We fans don't hate the team. We didn't hate DJ Smith. We wouldn't be here talking about the team ad nauseum if we didn't care. We. Hate. Losing.... and so should they! We don't hate the players, we hate the game. Don't wear a victim mentality thinking you are not appreciated as talented human beings - because that's simply not true, and defeatism won't help turn things around.

If this team is truly bigger than the sum of it's parts, and truly wants to keep playing together, then show it on the ice, because unfortunate or not, the last resort management has in its playbook is to shake the roster.

So, what would happen if we just blew the whole thing up ..... kind of ....

To NYR ….. Stutzle and Brannstrom, Jarventie
To Ottawa …… Lafreniere, Chytil
I know Chytil is LTIR, but we are playing for next season

To Philadelphia ….. Tkachuk, Chychrun, Korpisalo
To Ottawa ….. Carter Hart, Konecny, Laughton, Walker, Oliver Bonk, 1rst round pick

To San Jose ….. Boston’s first round pick + 3rd round pick
To Ottawa ……. Couture (injured now)

To LA Kings …… Norris
To Ottawa ….. Byfield
LA gets the top centre they are looking for.

I recognize that each trade may require a bit more tweeking, such as adding a Belleville player (or vice versa).

From Ottawa …… Tarasenko for a 2nd round pick. No retained …. Or a 1rst for 50% retained.
From Ottawa ….. Kubalik ….. a bag of pucks or whatever draft pick we can muster. But no sweetener added otherwise we just keep him and let his contract expire.
Ottawa …. Send Forsberg to Belleville for last year of contract. Buyout Hamonic with 1 year left. Send McKewen to Belleville for last 2 years of contract.

Batherson/Lafreniere/Couture
Giroux/ Pinto/Chytil
Greig/Byfield/Konecny
Kelly/Laughton/Joseph

Sanderson/Zub
Chabot/Walker
Klevin/JBD or free agent

Hart/Sogaard


So now we hurt all the players feeling with changes. But we could still leave them with a Participation Trophy for their efforts.

^^^^^^^^^^^

Toronto Maple Leafs 2024-2025

13.25M - Auston Matthews
11.50M - William Nylander
11.00M - John Tavares (will drop down to Sept 2025)
10.90M - Mitch Marner (8 years @12M incoming Sept 2025)
7.500M - Morgan Rielly
----------
54.15M (4 Forwards & 1 D-man) / 87.7M = 61.745%

In other words, that leaves 38.3% for the remaining MINIMUM 15 positions (average of 2.24M).

Ottawa Senators 2024-2025

8.35 - Tim Stutzle
8.21 - Brady Tkachuk
8.05 - Jake Sanderson
8.00 - Thomas Chabot
7.95 - Josh Norris
6.50 - Claude Giroux (UFA at summer of 2025)
4.98 - Drake Batherson
4.60 - Artem Zub
4.60 - Jakob Chychrun (UFA at summer of 2025)
4.00 - Joonas Korpisalo
-------
65.23M (5 Top 6 Forwards, Top 4 D-men, Top goalie) / 87.7M = 74.38%

We can see from the construction of the team, the Sens need to get more out of their second wave (Chabot, Norris without question!). These two make up over 18% of the cap - almost 1/5th. They nee to significantly up their game - or one, if not both need to be traded. I think guys like Greig, Pinto, Joseph, and acquiring a D-man can help

So……

- coaching doesn’t really matter, but changing the coach has caused the players to completely shut down.

- Staios wasn’t patient enough and should’ve waited longer to find a coach, even though he clearly hired an interm coach, which was the most patient option he had.

- The “kids” (who have all gotten paid) are so soft, that one game of booing (the coach) has caused them all to shut down and give up on the team, the city, and the fans.

- there are ‘rumblings’ that players want out

- everything was going to work out if they just didn’t fire TJ

- Stutzle is the next Daige

Do you even read the nonsense you write? This team was screwed because they didn’t fire DJ earlier, now it’s going to take that much longer to work out the bad habits. The season was already lost. The hope now is the new coach next year is given a clean slate.

This is not the fans fault. Fans have a right to be frustrated, as this is year 7 and the team looked ready to compete on paper in spite of DJ. Sadly they weren’t , and now they’re leading the opposite system where defence matters and you can’t run and gun as much as you want.
- CooCooKaChoo

You are being far too defensive. There are multiple issues at play. So many of the people who insisted that firing DJ would be the best thing for the team are now sounding shrill. Far too much panic. Folks have even moved into talking about hiring a new coach and avoid even mentioning Jacques Martin and Daniel Alfredson.

We even have calls for trading Brady or Timmy.

I opposed the firing of TJ only because of the impact it would have on the young players. I oppose the panic reactions that are now calling for the trading of key assets out of our position of weakness.

Bringing in a solid sports psychologist is not a bad idea. We fans don't hate the team. We didn't hate DJ Smith. We wouldn't be here talking about the team ad nauseum if we didn't care. We. Hate. Losing.... and so should they! We don't hate the players, we hate the game. Don't wear a victim mentality thinking you are not appreciated as talented human beings - because that's simply not true, and defeatism won't help turn things around.

If this team is truly bigger than the sum of it's parts, and truly wants to keep playing together, then show it on the ice, because unfortunate or not, the last resort management has in its playbook is to shake the roster.
- Bartacus

So this is the problem in a nutshell. There are folks that believe that change is possible by shaking the roster. I am not against change. But, sometimes you need to understand that any change involves a cost.

Clearly Brady, Timmy and, even, Jake Sanderson have experienced significant downturns in their play since the departure of TJ and the arrival of Jacques Martin. We can pretend that is not true but our eyes tell us something different.

I am not opposed to trading assets. But, we need to fear three things. The first is obvious and it is the probability that we get badly beat in any trade. The second issue involves creating a stampede of players looking to get out of our town. Third, we end up being tagged as just beginning another rebuild.

It is hard for some people to acknowledge that firing TJ and replacing him with Jacques Martin was an error. But, unless we learn from our errors we are surely destined to repeat them.

Sometimes deciding to do nothing is a better choice than deciding to do something that can become a destructive choice in its own way.

What sticks out for me is just how badly Jacques Martin's structural changes are failing. It is clear that players are lost and are no longer listening to the coaching staff. It will be no different if they replace Martin and try another system.

Or more likely daigle was just not that good of a player.
Yzerman suffered the wrath of coach and fans in the beginning in detroit. But he listened and implemented. Ended up winning many cups ,became a hall of famer. Thats how great players respond.
Bad overpaid players prefer to turtle and just dissappear and find exscuses.
Thats a bizarre unfounded ideology to think the players dislike the team and the fans.
As far as a collapse as you say this season from firing the coach, oddly they have almost an identical record as last season minus a few loser points . So not much has changed yet. Neither a collapse or advancement.
Overall i can't distuingish if your a provocateur or you believe what you type. Not that it matters. Both taken with a grain of salt.
- spazzbot

Look. I understand that some fans are bitterly disappointed to discover that TJ was not the problem. Those who continue to insist that our problem was coaching are now living in an alternate universe of denial.

The first principle of effective change management is understanding and accepting the reality of the situation. Trades made out of desperation will only see us digging deeper into the hole we have created for ourselves.

It going to take really tough leadership to resist the calls for wholesale changes.

I am not opposed to changes. But it is hard to believe that any team would offer up something that works for the Sens in terms of where they are today.

You are being far too defensive. There are multiple issues at play. So many of the people who insisted that firing DJ would be the best thing for the team are now sounding shrill. Far too much panic. Folks have even moved into talking about hiring a new coach and avoid even mentioning Jacques Martin and Daniel Alfredson.

We even have calls for trading Brady or Timmy.

I opposed the firing of TJ only because of the impact it would have on the young players. I oppose the panic reactions that are now calling for the trading of key assets out of our position of weakness.
- spatso

Firing DJ was what’s best for the team. Keeping him would have only dug their bad habits in deeper.

There’s always going to be a select few that panic and want to trade the core, that existed before DJ was fired. That is not the typical fan.

Keeping DJ because the players are mentally fragile would not have helped this team in the long run. And in the short run, they were losing anyway.

Your line of reasoning doesn’t work and you keep saying it like you’re right and nobody else thought this team would lose another game, but that’s simply not the case.

Firing DJ was what’s best for the team. Keeping him would have only dug their bad habits in deeper.

There’s always going to be a select few that panic and want to trade the core, that existed before DJ was fired. That is not the typical fan.

Keeping DJ because the players are mentally fragile would not have helped this team in the long run. And in the short run, they were losing anyway.

Your line of reasoning doesn’t work and you keep saying it like you’re right and nobody else thought this team would lose another game, but that’s simply not the case.
- CooCooKaChoo

Agreed.
Firing DJ was absolutely the right thing to do. There are so many bad habits to drive out of players games.
- Shifts too long (improved)
- Bad line changes (improved)
- cheating offensively
- failure to backcheck
- risky plays and passes in the offensive zone without backup leading to scoring chances against
- players are casual with the puck and soft - get stripped easily
- reckless passes that are picked off
- failure to move the puck out of the zone
- failure to clear the front of the net
- too many players chasing the puck and out of position
- failure to read plays
- screening the goaltender
- inability to deal with forechecking pressure

The firing of Dorion and DJ should have happened 2 years ago.

Look. I understand that some fans are bitterly disappointed to discover that TJ was not the problem. Those who continue to insist that our problem was coaching are now living in an alternate universe of denial.

The first principle of effective change management is understanding and accepting the reality of the situation. Trades made out of desperation will only see us digging deeper into the hole we have created for ourselves.

It going to take really tough leadership to resist the calls for wholesale changes.

I am not opposed to changes. But it is hard to believe that any team would offer up something that works for the Sens in terms of where they are today.
- spatso

I don’t think anyone here other than yourself is disappointed with the DJ firing. Whether it’s linked to why they were losing or not..the team had a kazillion issues under him.

Keeping DJ because the players “liked him” is not a good enough reason why he should’ve kept his job.

It’s a results league where coaches are dispensable for obvious reasons.

Now, in terms of the “core”.

The “core” got their money. So it’s up to the “core” to turn this thing around, otherwise there has to be a different jolt.

In my eyes there are only about….4 untouchables on this roster: Brady, Timmy, Greig, Sanderson.

That’s it.

Staios needs to look at all his options for this season and the off. There has to be accountability for failure. These guys got their pay before even making the playoffs!

We rip the leafs for giving their guys big salaries before winning anything meaningful..at least they’ve made it to the playoffs every year since Matthews entered the league! And they’re doing it this year without their starting goalie!

The player who I feel the worst for is Giroux. I’d be giving him every opportunity to find a team he wants to go to and have a shot at the cup. It won’t happen here.