There had to be some kind of special condition for Haag that I'm not aware of. AHL games absolutely count. Just go onto Cap friendly and look up any of the players the Flyers have signed to ELC's that have already played a season in the AHL.
- MJL

Still gotta be 18 or 19 to slide. Every player on the Phantoms is 20+. Rare that a U20 plays in the AHL because 1) U20 CHL players aren't eligible, 2) NCAA players would lose their college eligibility 3) Most Euro players don't cross over until they're 20+

Hagg was one of the few Euros who came over young.

If Cutter had played LHV this season he would have slid until he's 20.

He was 19 when he signed I believe.
- TobyFlenderson

That would make him slide eligible but not explain why his full season in the AHL did not count against his ELC.

That would make him slide eligible but not explain why his full season in the AHL did not count against his ELC.
- MJL

European or NCAA players can play in the AHL at 19 and still have their entry level slide I believe.

Still gotta be 18 or 19 to slide. Every player on the Phantoms is 20+. Rare that a U20 plays in the AHL because 1) U20 CHL players aren't eligible, 2) NCAA players would lose their college eligibility 3) Most Euro players don't cross over until they're 20+

Hagg was one of the few Euros who came over young.
- Tomahawk

To slide, the player has to go back to juniors. Having the AHL games count has nothing to do with age. AHL games absolutely count towards a players ELC. It's professional hockey and they are paid. Like I said, there must of been some weird condition in the CBA that doesn't happen often for that to have happened with Haag's contract.

To slide, the player has to go back to juniors. Having the AHL games count has nothing to do with age. AHL games absolutely count towards a players ELC. It's professional hockey and they are paid. Like I said, there must of been some weird condition in the CBA that doesn't happen often for that to have happened with Haag's contract.
- MJL

As per Capfriendly:

If a player who is signed to an entry-level contract and is 18 or 19 years of age (as of September 15 of the signing year), does not play in a minimum of 10 NHL games (including both regular season and playoffs; AHL games do not count), their contract is considered to ‘slide’, or extend, by one year. For example, if a player signed an ELC for three seasons from 2015-16 to 2017-2018, and their contract slides, their contract is now effective from 2016-17 to 2018-19. An exception to this rule is that if the player is 19 on September 15 of the first year of their contract, and turns 20 between September 16 and December 31, their contract does not slide.

European or NCAA players can play in the AHL at 19 and still have their entry level slide I believe.
- TobyFlenderson

Yes, I just looked that up, you are correct. That is why Haag's contract slid. In the overwhelming number of cases though, AHL games count.

Yes, I just looked that up, you are correct. That is why Haag's contract slid. In the overwhelming number of cases though, AHL games count.
- MJL

It's definitely a rarity. I was trying to find a recent example and Simon Edvinsson for Detroit slid last year since he was 19 and played 52 games for Grand Rapids (but less than 10 for Detroit).

As per Capfriendly:
- Tomahawk

Read carefully what is says. That is in regards to the 10 game rule and the deadline to send a player back to juniors to slide before the year counts as a year on their ELC. Unless it's a situation with a European player or a late birthday situation, AHL games count.

It's definitely a rarity. I was trying to find a recent example and Simon Edvinsson for Detroit slid last year since he was 19 and played 52 games for Grand Rapids (but less than 10 for Detroit).
- TobyFlenderson

Will Nylander also played 40+ games for the Marlies and slid. It's mostly Euros who have slid in the AHL since there's the benefit of crossing early and learning the smaller rink/culture/language.

NCAA players... really no benefit for them to sign and go ride AHL busses. Many of their rights are are owned by CHL teams who drafted them so they might have to go to junior if they don't play in the NHL.

Yeah, that poop was embarrassing. ASF and Bundy should be ashamed of themselves. Isn't that podcast now a Flyers mouthpiece too? And all of the rabid Flyer fans and Torts lovers basically ate it right up.
- TobyFlenderson

I used the listen to that show regularly even though I wasn't a fan of ASF, I can't listen to it anymore. Bundy does good work with recovering addicts but he's terrible on that show imo.

Will Nylander also played 40+ games for the Marlies and slid. It's mostly Euros who have slid in the AHL since there's the benefit of crossing early and learning the smaller rink/culture/language.

NCAA players... really no benefit for them to sign and go ride AHL busses. Many of their rights are are owned by CHL teams who drafted them so they might have to go to junior if they don't play in the NHL.
- Tomahawk

That's one area I wasn't clear on if the Flyers had an option to send Gauthier to a junior team, if they felt he wasn't ready with his NCAA eligibility over.

Will Nylander also played 40+ games for the Marlies and slid. It's mostly Euros who have slid in the AHL since there's the benefit of crossing early and learning the smaller rink/culture/language.

NCAA players... really no benefit for them to sign and go ride AHL busses. Many of their rights are are owned by CHL teams who drafted them so they might have to go to junior if they don't play in the NHL.
- Tomahawk

Was there any indication/conversation that Briere had with Gauthier that they might've wanted him to play AHL games so the slide rules would apply? I feel like I might've read that somewhere but can't remember in this absolute mess of information, opinions and speculation.

I used the listen to that show regularly even though I wasn't a fan of ASF, I can't listen to it anymore. Bundy does good work with recovering addicts but he's terrible on that show imo.
- rayc16

It's sports talk radio. Put as much stock into it as you would 97.5... aka none.

They are getting what they wanted which was a feature of the Ed Snider Flyers - drama. They want drama as a feature of the identity of the team. Controversy gets people to talk about the team and in their mind will drive interest. I'm sure they want to build a club that can actually win (whether they can or not remains to be seen) but they certainly want the Flyers to be front page news just like Ed Snider wanted.

I used the listen to that show regularly even though I wasn't a fan of ASF, I can't listen to it anymore. Bundy does good work with recovering addicts but he's terrible on that show imo.
- rayc16

Pretty much the same. I don't like that they basically got bought out by the Flyers and now are company men. Especially since Bundy used to rail against the organization that fired him. He's just a loudmouth on the show. And ASF basically using a Flyers owned podcast to poop on Kevin Hayes so fans could direct their ire at him was the last straw for me.

That's one area I wasn't clear on if the Flyers had an option to send Gauthier to a junior team, if they felt he wasn't ready with his NCAA eligibility over.
- MJL

Not sure if Cutter was taken in the OHL or import drafts... maybe not since he was locked into the USNTDP track. If nobody owns his rights he could have played for the Phantoms in his 18 and 19 yo seasons and slid. But like I said, there's no earthly reason why he would have agreed to do that.

Was there any indication/conversation that Briere had with Gauthier that they might've wanted him to play AHL games so the slide rules would apply? I feel like I might've read that somewhere but can't remember in this absolute mess of information, opinions and speculation.
- TobyFlenderson

In most cases, high drafted NCAA players have made it a condition of signing late in the NHL season that their ELC would start and burn off the first year. They do this so they can get to their 2nd contract quicker. I don't know if that would've been the case with Gauthier but it's safe to assume it would've been.

Not sure if Cutter was taken in the OHL or import drafts... maybe not since he was locked into the USNTDP track. If nobody owns his rights he could have played for the Phantoms in his 18 and 19 yo seasons and slid. But like I said, there's no earthly reason why he would have agreed to do that.
- Tomahawk

No, he wouldn't and I'm sure he would've made it a condition to burn the first year of his ELC for signing at the end of the 22/23 season.

It's sports talk radio. Put as much stock into it as you would 97.5... aka none.

They are getting what they wanted which was a feature of the Ed Snider Flyers - drama. They want drama as a feature of the identity of the team. Controversy gets people to talk about the team and in their mind will drive interest. I'm sure they want to build a club that can actually win (whether they can or not remains to be seen) but they certainly want the Flyers to be front page news just like Ed Snider wanted.
- atibus

I though it was a well executed plan to get the fans to forget about the Pens game.

There had to be some kind of special condition for Haag that I'm not aware of. AHL games absolutely count. Just go onto Cap friendly and look up any of the players the Flyers have signed to ELC's that have already played a season in the AHL.
- MJL

Poirier is a Flames prospect, this is how he slid...very specific parameters for it to happen.

Here is the criteria for this to happen, all of which Poirier meets. First, a player has to be born after September 15th, thus meaning he’d turn 19 the same year he was drafted. Pourer’s birthday is December 14th, so we can check that box. Second, that player has to sign a contract prior to December 31st of his draft year, which Poirier did. Finally, a player cannot play more than nine NHL games in any of the next two seasons. In Poirier’s case, he played zero NHL games as a 19-year-old and six last year as a 20-year-old. If you check all three of those boxes, voila, you have a contract that slides for another year.
In reality, the Flames basically got a free year of Poirier’s services. I mean, they still had to pay him and all, so more accurately they got an EXTRA year of him being under the entry level restrictions. For the team, that’s a good thing. Had they given Poirier four more NHL games last year, though, his ELC would have kicked in like most cases.

Haha

Now some people are calling him Quitter Gauthier.

Poirier is a Flames prospect, this is how he slid...very specific parameters for it to happen.

Here is the criteria for this to happen, all of which Poirier meets. First, a player has to be born after September 15th, thus meaning he’d turn 19 the same year he was drafted. Pourer’s birthday is December 14th, so we can check that box. Second, that player has to sign a contract prior to December 31st of his draft year, which Poirier did. Finally, a player cannot play more than nine NHL games in any of the next two seasons. In this case, he played zero NHL games as a 19-year-old and six last year as a 20-year-old. If you check all three of those boxes, voila, you have a contract that slides for another year.
In reality, the Flames basically got a free year of Poirier’s services. I mean, they still had to pay him and all, so more accurately they got an EXTRA year of him being under the entry level restrictions. For the team, that’s a good thing. Had they given Poirier four more NHL games last year, though, his ELC would have kicked in like most cases.
- TheFreak

There are three slide scenarios. The European player scenario, the late birthday scenario and the standard slide. The latter of which is by far the most frequent scenario for overwhelming majority of players on ELC's for them, AHL games count.

Will Nylander also played 40+ games for the Marlies and slid. It's mostly Euros who have slid in the AHL since there's the benefit of crossing early and learning the smaller rink/culture/language.

NCAA players... really no benefit for them to sign and go ride AHL busses. Many of their rights are are owned by CHL teams who drafted them so they might have to go to junior if they don't play in the NHL.
- Tomahawk

The CBA states that contracts slide when a player plays less than ten NHL games in their 18 and 19-year-old seasons. That applies for players drafted out of any league, North American or otherwise. It gets interesting for European picks, though, because they’re not subject to the CHL-NHL Transfer Agreement we talked about earlier.
As such, a player drafted out of Europe is free to play in the AHL without any restriction. But they can still have their contract slide if they still stay under ten NHL games. In fact, they can have their contract slide twice if the circumstances are right.
Toronto’s William Nylander is a good example to use here. He played 37 AHL games as an 18-year-old but played in zero NHL games. His contract slid to the next year as a 19-year-old. If the Maple Leafs decided to play him in less than ten NHL games again, his contract would slide again. In essence, a player in this circumstance can be under entry level restrictions for five years while still getting two full years of professional development in North America.

AHL games count.
- MJL

It's strictly based on birthday and NHL-games.

AHL games do not count toward slide-eligibility.

If you feel that's incorrect please give an example of a player who was 18/19 who didn't slide in the AHL.

New blob

This is just agent cover for a kid who pissed off the entire NHL. Don’t think this just relates to the Flyers. The whole NHL management is pissed off at this kid if it happened as the Flyers management team said. The #5 overall draft pick ghosting the team that drafted him without a clearly defined reason will upset every GM and president in the league. There will absolutely be discussions about killing the college loophole whether is gets fixed or not. This was the reason it was kept quiet. Every GM and President is scared crapless about this happening to them and had sympathy for the Flyers. If not they could have easily killed Gautheir’s value by leaking this to the press.
- psuhockey

You may well be right. But there are some issues I have with that reasoning.

1. By keeping quiet, they did not just help the Flyers. They helped Gauthier. He got what he wanted, went away from a team he did not want to play for, to a team with far higher upside, and a place that would be conventionally be considered more attractive. If they had leaked the story, the negative social media pressure on the kid would have been tremendous, and his performance at WJC may have suffered. It might have been a warning for future young players not to play this card. Iotw, the future you claim they are terrified of, well, they made that future easier to happen.

2. If Gauthier was indeed seen by teams as a problem child, why want to trade for him? If he does this at age 19, what is he going to do in a few years? Is he going to hold out in training camp? Sulk if he doesn't get pp time? Anaheim is a young team, full of impressionable high end talent. Will he poison them as well?

3. Consider the systematic way their camp has apparently blown off the Flyers. Very consistent. Nothing at all on social media. And then the "radio silence" except the conversation by the agent yesterday. Does this sound like the behavior of a immature 19 year old kid?

4. Take a look at his agent. 3 years ago, he was ranked #39 in power/influence by Forbes across all of pro sports which means he is easily one of the top NHL agents. He has a huge stable of NHL representation, with loads of well known names, including Slavin, Ekholm, RJo, almost every franchise is represented. That company has Bieksa and Kessel on its board. Etc. etc.

My suggestion is that GMs across the league realize this is a labor-mgmt issue. It has very little to do with Gauthier- he is not a future problem case, there is no risk in signing him. His discontentment is no more than the discontentment many young draftees likely face. It is just that there was a hole in the arrangements, and his veteran representation has driven a truck through that hole.

If they go public with this, zillions of things might come out. The agent could very likely turn this into a labor mgmt issue and point out (correctly) that the player is not doing anything not allowed by the rules set by the NHL itself. He may turn this into a fat cats versus little guys issue. The ensuing fracas would be bad for the NHL as a whole. They will deal with the situation collectively in the off season. For now, minimal publicity is in their collective self-interest.

Big winner: The agent. He played hardball, and won. Mgmt might dislike him, but young players will flock to him for representation.