If this ever went to trial, a lot would revolve on whether she was too drunk to give consent to having sex. You be “I’m too drunk to drive” and give consent but you can too considered too drunk to have the capacity to give consent.

So your right, context will matter in determining if she gave consent.
- Canada Cup

I would imagine the major "consent factor" would be around dudes wanking in the room to it rather than just a potential 1 on 1 interaction. Dicey stuff after 20 years, but if they have video/phone records, it could be devastating.

Also I don't want to play the rumour game, but the dry island bros were on that team...

I would imagine the major "consent factor" would be around dudes wanking in the room to it rather than just a potential 1 on 1 interaction. Dicey stuff after 20 years, but if they have video/phone records, it could be devastating.
- AdamFrench

what video or phones were people (kids) using back then?

I didnt get my first cell phone until around 2002. and it was a brick with none of that

I would imagine the major "consent factor" would be around dudes wanking in the room to it rather than just a potential 1 on 1 interaction. Dicey stuff after 20 years, but if they have video/phone records, it could be devastating.
- AdamFrench

If the video clearly showed she was unconscious, that’s a problem. From what I understand the biggest barrier to charges could be the fact that the victim hasn’t come forward. Difficult but not impossible to proceed in that situation.

what video or phones were people (kids) using back then?

I didnt get my first cell phone until around 2002. and it was a brick with none of that
- senstroll

In 2002, the first phones with built-in cameras became publicly available, including the Nokia 7650 and the Sanyo SPC-5300. The Nokia phone boasted "a large 176x208 pixel colour display," according to a media release at the time.

In 2002, the first phones with built-in cameras became publicly available, including the Nokia 7650 and the Sanyo SPC-5300. The Nokia phone boasted "a large 176x208 pixel colour display," according to a media release at the time.
- AdamFrench

Could have just been an old fashioned digital camera. 1 megapixel cameras were the hot digital gadget then.

Lesson : raise your kids right.

In 2002, the first phones with built-in cameras became publicly available, including the Nokia 7650 and the Sanyo SPC-5300. The Nokia phone boasted "a large 176x208 pixel colour display," according to a media release at the time.
- AdamFrench

The person who came forward referred to a camera and said he identified the person holding the camera as well as someone waiting in the hall. Three people who apparently saw the video reported 6 players had sex with the victim who was “unresponsive “.

Lesson : raise your kids right.
- GalacticStone

You'd hope.

I can agree on a lot of this.

I do think that eventually they have to change this with Perros in or out.



Unrelated note, looks like McCmann is going through waivers.

Reaves got his wish making the Leafs take him off IR.

Sucks they are going to lose a decent 13th forward for playoffs in Bobby.
- Santo_44

I'm not sure they lose McMann, but he is far better on the 4th line than Reaves.

So far I'm not onboard with team Brad.

can you be too drunk to make the decision to get in line?
- drexel

You know I call you out on some poop, however, this point is really (frank)ing interesting.


If she can be too hammered to give consent, even if she gave her consent hammered, can a guy be too hammered to receive her consent or hammered consent or even her no???

Why can she be too hammered and not responsible for her actions but he is responsible whether hammered or not?!?!?


Interesting argument Drex. Very interesting.

I'm not sure they lose McMann, but he is far better on the 4th line than Reaves.

So far I'm not onboard with team Brad.
- Monkeypunk

Bobby McBobby going on IR, not waivers. Jarnkrok also left practice early after taking a puck to the hand.

You know I call you out on some poop, however, this point is really (frank)ing interesting.


If she can be too hammered to give consent, even if she gave her consent hammered, can a guy be too hammered to receive her consent or hammered consent or even her no???

Why can she be too hammered and not responsible for her actions but he is responsible whether hammered or not?!?!?


Interesting argument Drex. Very interesting.
- underhill14

In this instance I believe you have the mitigating circumstance that she was supposedly fine with the one guy. It was the team behind him that she did not give consent to. If the one guy orchestrated the arrival of the others then he's complicit in rape. He had consent for one-on-one consensual sex. Consent doesn't open the door to every horny wiener in the hotel.

You know I call you out on some poop, however, this point is really (frank)ing interesting.


If she can be too hammered to give consent, even if she gave her consent hammered, can a guy be too hammered to receive her consent or hammered consent or even her no???

Why can she be too hammered and not responsible for her actions but he is responsible whether hammered or not?!?!?


Interesting argument Drex. Very interesting.
- underhill14

the I dont remember robbing the bank and murdering that guy defense, works every time

You know I call you out on some poop, however, this point is really (frank)ing interesting.


If she can be too hammered to give consent, even if she gave her consent hammered, can a guy be too hammered to receive her consent or hammered consent or even her no???

Why can she be too hammered and not responsible for her actions but he is responsible whether hammered or not?!?!?


Interesting argument Drex. Very interesting.
- underhill14

I think we can all agree :

1) a room full of throbbing wieners is best avoided.

2) you won't die if you don't get laid that night.

3) you won't die if you don't get piss drunk that night.

4) if she's obviously too intoxicated to stand, walk, speak, or be awake, then it's best avoided, regardless of what she said at the bar, in the elevator, or 10 minutes ago.

5) you don't need to call your drunk buddies in to watch you bang somebody.

6) see numbers 2 and 3 and reread them several times.

7) be the better man. be a professional. be a decent human being.

When in doubt, keep your Richard in your pants.

Thank you for attending my TED talk.

You know I call you out on some poop, however, this point is really (frank)ing interesting.


If she can be too hammered to give consent, even if she gave her consent hammered, can a guy be too hammered to receive her consent or hammered consent or even her no???

Why can she be too hammered and not responsible for her actions but he is responsible whether hammered or not?!?!?


Interesting argument Drex. Very interesting.
- underhill14

Without consent, sex is considered sexual assault. If a victim is too drunk to be considered to have the capacity to give consent, there is no consent.

The only possible intoxication defence requires the accused to be in a state of automatism where they are unaware of or can’t control their actions. It’s pretty much impossible to reach that state just from drinking.

If the video clearly showed she was unconscious, that’s a problem. From what I understand the biggest barrier to charges could be the fact that the victim hasn’t come forward. Difficult but not impossible to proceed in that situation.
- Canada Cup

If the victim doesn’t come forward can there be charges laid? Maybe she wants this whole to go away? Maybe she’s tried to put in the past?

In non-sex pervert hockey questions...if Kucherov wins this points race will MacKinnon ever win a top tier major individual award (Conn Smythe potential notwithstanding)?

I doubt he can win the Hart unless he wins that race and even then, Makar and Rantanen hurt his chances over someone like Hellebuyck.

McDavid finally had a year he wasn't murdering the league, Matthews seems poised to be the new goal man and Bedard is only going to get better.

If he doesn't win any, he'll have one of the strangest HOF careers.

The person who came forward referred to a camera and said he identified the person holding the camera as well as someone waiting in the hall. Three people who apparently saw the video reported 6 players had sex with the victim who was “unresponsive “.
- Canada Cup

Bruh. Who wants to be the 6th guy to get in there?!?!? Who would even want to be second? Why not just rub your richards together, geeeeeeeeeeehhhhhh.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

I'm not sure they lose McMann, but he is far better on the 4th line than Reaves.

So far I'm not onboard with team Brad.
- Monkeypunk

No poop, eh?!? Obviously he somewhat had his hands tied, but yikes there have been a lot of whiffs. He'll always be able to say he re-signed 34 though.

If the victim doesn’t come forward can there be charges laid? Maybe she wants this whole to go away? Maybe she’s tried to put in the past?
- bryant

Charges can still be laid if there are reasonable grounds to conclude that crimes have been committed and that a conviction is possible even without the testimony of a victim.

If the victim doesn’t come forward can there be charges laid? Maybe she wants this whole to go away? Maybe she’s tried to put in the past?
- bryant

In 100% of murder cases, the victim does not come forward or testify in court.

I suspect in this case it would be no different.

You know I call you out on some poop, however, this point is really (frank)ing interesting.


If she can be too hammered to give consent, even if she gave her consent hammered, can a guy be too hammered to receive her consent or hammered consent or even her no???

Why can she be too hammered and not responsible for her actions but he is responsible whether hammered or not?!?!?


Interesting argument Drex. Very interesting.
- underhill14

Not really. That's looking at it backwards.

The issue of intox'n is relevant to the issue of consent. Consent is relevant to the issue of the charge (ie. you committed a crime - rape).

So before you get to consent and intoxication you'd have to find that she committed a crime against the player ... a sex crime. I'm sure we can all agree that's not where this discussion is leading.

As CC wrote ....for an accused to be able to claim intox'n as a defences he/she would have to prove that they were an automaton. In this case basically a penis without a brain.

The caselaw about automotons you get to read in law school is incredible ...and hilarious. Lots of cases involving rednecks with guns and moonshine.

In non-sex pervert hockey questions...if Kucherov wins this points race will MacKinnon ever win a top tier major individual award (Conn Smythe potential notwithstanding)?

I doubt he can win the Hart unless he wins that race and even then, Makar and Rantanen hurt his chances over someone like Hellebuyck.

McDavid finally had a year he wasn't murdering the league, Matthews seems poised to be the new goal man and Bedard is only going to get better.

If he doesn't win any, he'll have one of the strangest HOF careers.
- AdamFrench

I'm enjoying this Duch-Mac race.

In non-sex pervert hockey questions...if Kucherov wins this points race will MacKinnon ever win a top tier major individual award (Conn Smythe potential notwithstanding)?

I doubt he can win the Hart unless he wins that race and even then, Makar and Rantanen hurt his chances over someone like Hellebuyck.

McDavid finally had a year he wasn't murdering the league, Matthews seems poised to be the new goal man and Bedard is only going to get better.

If he doesn't win any, he'll have one of the strangest HOF careers.
- AdamFrench

B00000ring.

If the victim doesn’t come forward can there be charges laid? Maybe she wants this whole to go away? Maybe she’s tried to put in the past?
- bryant

Yes, but you don't see it very often b/c the evidence becomes really difficult to establish without the victim.