That is not how Tortorella coached either Seth Jones or Zach Werenski. They had autonomy to improvise and it was on the forwards to cover.

The Tortorella reputation doesn’t match up with reality.
- psuhockey

He’s definitely let Sanheim improvise this year…in fact that’s how Farabee got benched this year…he expects the wingers to read the D man jumping in or pinching in and cover for him.

Now knowing the situation I wish DB would have made him sit another entire year…I’m not sure his value would have dropped that much. Kinda what Bob Clarke did with Lindros. You don’t want to play with us ? Fine. Enjoy another year in school. I think that’s a rookie GM just wanting to get out from under an issue.
That said I’m happy they got Drysale. I also have no issue saying what I think of him rgarding his professionalism or lack there of.

Agent: ya it’s over .

DB. Why?

Agent: it’s a private family matter.

Of course the Agent has to make or take a phone call. That’s literally his job.
- landros 2

The agent taking the call fulfills the professionalism part. They don’t get to demand an audience with Cutter.

I have two student athlete sons. Their idea of professionalism, standards and norms differs from mine. The Flyers need to hire someone who can tap into that mindset. You can blame him but a failure to read the situation cost them.

Hmm. I watched a bunch of those games of that team esp after the Tampa upset. I rarely saw those two get deep. Maybe my impression/memory is flawed. Interesting. Let me check.
- PT21

For what it is worth, my impression might be based on the latter part of Torts in CBJ

I found a little dichotomy.

From 2018 Athletic:

Tortorella has given both defensemen license to jump into rushes and rove all over the offensive zone. They instinctively know when their partner is going deep or pinching at the blue line.

From 2021 BSH:

After the departure of adequate forward support, John Tortorella clearly placed more of an emphasis on the “defensive defenders” playing it safe and hanging back while Werenski and company attacked. This coincided with a steep decline for Jones analytically, going from the 95.1th percentile over the course of the 2016-17 and 2017-18 seasons to the 76.9th percentile in 2018-19. The subsequent dip into the nether regions of the analytics community was right around the time that Columbus fully committed to the identity of “wait for the other team to come to us,” which clearly hurt the impact Jones was having on games.

The latter is what I remember

The agent taking the call fulfills the professionalism part. They don’t get to demand an audience with Cutter.

I have two student athlete sons. Their idea of professionalism, standards and norms differ from mine. The Flyers need to hire someone who can tap into that mindset. You can blame him but a failure to read the situation cost them.
- Minnyhock

To you it obviously does. They didn’t demand anything they asked on several occasions to meet with him. He declined. The agent declined to give the Flyers specific reasons for both his decline to meet and sign. DB has said as much.
They still have not given a reason. I believe they said private family matter. Which is not a reason that has any meaning in its context.
Where I do agree with you is that the Flyers need to learn from this but from everything that s been reported I’m not sure how different they could have approached the situation. If a lack of professionalism is the new norm they will have to adapt. Although considering 200 plus kids are drafted every year and this only happened a handful of times over the last decade perhaps it’s not the team but individual situations.
It’s still a failure. In a rebuild they need to get their best guys signed. They won’t always get a Jamie Drysdale as a consultation prize.

Again it matters little what I think. But once again this is pure conjecture on your part. ..your entire premise is a guess. Why ? Because he refused to give a reason for both ghosting the Flyers and actually signing a contract. I wouldn’t say your interpretation is logical at all. Maybe to you I guess.
I would say this. Any player that treats an organization that way shows a lack of professionalism. Again he made a decision that is with in his right. It’s hard for me to side with a players actions when he refuses to explain them…
- landros 2

Of course it is a guess.So is yours.

You seem to think his refusal to personally meet/provide reasons is damning evidence of immaturity and temperament. But I believe there are situations in professional life when that is exactly the optimal response, and yes, I am conjecturing this was one of them, esp because it reeks of an well coordinated plan of action and because there is no prior evidence of such immaturity etc by CG.

Of course it is a guess.So is yours.

You seem to think his refusal to personally meet/provide reasons is damning evidence of immaturity and temperament. But I believe there are situations in professional life when that is exactly the optimal response, and yes, I am conjecturing this was one of them, esp because it reeks of an well coordinated plan of action and because there is no prior evidence of such immaturity etc by CG.
- PT21

No mines actually what several management people including DB and Jonesy actually said on the record….several times now….yours is a guess. It’s a playing devils advocate at best, not based on any tangible evidence or fact.
Hey we all have opinions….mine just sides with the Flyers on this one despite the end result not being in the Flyers best interest.

To you it obviously does. They didn’t demand anything they asked on several occasions to meet with him. He declined. The agent declined to give the Flyers specific reasons for both his decline to meet and sign. DB has said as much.
They still have not given a reason. I believe they said private family matter. Which is not a reason that has any meaning in its context.
Where I do agree with you is that the Flyers need to learn from this but from everything that s been reported I’m not sure how different they could have approached the situation. If a lack of professionalism is the new norm they will have to adapt. Although considering 200 plus kids are drafted every year and this only happened a handful of times over the last decade perhaps it’s not the team but individual situations.
It’s still a failure. In a rebuild they need to get their best guys signed. They won’t always get a Jamie Drysdale as a consultation prize.
- landros 2

I think we’re both comfortable disagreeing here. The one thing I don’t see is why the explanation is so important. It’s like grandma saying if you don’t have anything good to say don’t say anything. If it’s something negative about the Flyers I don’t see why he has to say it and lying to be diplomatic is worse.

No mines actually what several management people including DB and Jonesy actually said on the record….several times now….yours is a guess. It’s a playing devils advocate at best, not based on any tangible evidence or fact.
Hey we all have opinions….mine just sides with the Flyers on this one despite the end result not being in the Flyers best interest.
- landros 2

Those are the very embodiment of impartial assessors, aren't they?

For what it is worth, my impression might be based on the latter part of Torts in CBJ

I found a little dichotomy.

From 2018 Athletic:

Tortorella has given both defensemen license to jump into rushes and rove all over the offensive zone. They instinctively know when their partner is going deep or pinching at the blue line.

From 2021 BSH:

After the departure of adequate forward support, John Tortorella clearly placed more of an emphasis on the “defensive defenders” playing it safe and hanging back while Werenski and company attacked. This coincided with a steep decline for Jones analytically, going from the 95.1th percentile over the course of the 2016-17 and 2017-18 seasons to the 76.9th percentile in 2018-19. The subsequent dip into the nether regions of the analytics community was right around the time that Columbus fully committed to the identity of “wait for the other team to come to us,” which clearly hurt the impact Jones was having on games.

The latter is what I remember
- PT21

I do think he coaches to what the talent on the team dictates for the best chance of getting points. What’s interesting about this season IMO is he is coaching the team he and or management wants but doesn’t have right now.

Well, if being described as “pedantic” in your messageboard musings is ad-hominem, yall are bigger snowflakes than the ones that wanted Kate Smith gone.
- FloHaake

You've mastered it.

I think we’re both comfortable disagreeing here. The one thing I don’t see is why the explanation is so important. It’s like grandma saying if you don’t have anything good to say don’t say anything. If it’s something negative about the Flyers I don’t see why he has to say it and lying to be diplomatic is worse.
- Minnyhock

Bingo. In fact lying is hazardous, for if the lie is refuted, nothing is served, and further, there is more trouble.

My assessment that this is an overall issue stems very strongly from CG's no-talk policy and the Flyers panicked choreography. You betcha Flyers have a very good idea why Cutter wanted out.

Does it mean I like it. Of course not. I wish we didn't live in this world where such behavior is optimal. But then, I wish we also didn't live in a world where tanking was so important.

I agree. If it’s as simple as a contract dispute, and they couldn’t agree on money, then just say that. No big deal. But that’s not what the message was from management, it was “he didn’t want to play for the Flyers”.

Ok so why? The Philly media wanted everyone to believe it’s because of Kevin Hayes, or that CG is a Penguins fan so eff him, or that he’s a player of questionable character attitude. Maybe? But this used to be a place athletes wanted to be, and for the first time in my life, a HIGHLY talented prospect said “nah, no thanks”.

If it’s just money, ELC, whatever, then say that. The fact that the messaging has nothing really to do with that, well that smells fishy to me. And I hate seafood.
- FloHaake

It couldn't be a disagreement on money. As a top 5 pick, he was going to get the same as every other top pick gets on an ELC.

I do think he coaches to what the talent on the team dictates for the best chance of getting points. What’s interesting about this season IMO is he is coaching the team he and or management wants but doesn’t have right now.
- psuhockey

This promises to be an interesting take. Its too cryptic for me as phrased. Can you explain?

It couldn't be a disagreement on money. As a top 5 pick, he was going to get the same as every other top pick gets on an ELC.
- MJL

Lmao, gets salty about being described as “pedantic” ,follows it up with this post.

Let’s hear your credible sources on THE FACTS, since you have them and I don’t.

Those are the very embodiment of impartial assessors, aren't they?
- PT21

They just told the fan base what actually happened from their point of view. Considering their comments on their future direction and the excitement surrounding the prospect I’m fine with their transparency. It’s not like there was a rebuttal or disagreement from CGs side on the Flyers statement of events. As it’s his right to not play in Philly it’s well within the Flyers rights to tell us what happened. If it paints him as a prima donna or unprofessional …oh well.

I do think he coaches to what the talent on the team dictates for the best chance of getting points. What’s interesting about this season IMO is he is coaching the team he and or management wants but doesn’t have right now.
- psuhockey

Tortorella's system and style of play is not the same style of play that top teams play. Tortorella is a defensive coach who certainly knows how to coach defensive play and checking. Likes a 2-1 spread forecheck. However Tortorella and his coaching staff are not good offensive coaches. They are behind the times in puck movement, speed breakouts and offensive zone movement. It's not all coaching and a big part of it is top offensive talent but the Flyers are not well coached offensively. The Flyers have hitched their wagon to Tortorella and are even marketing him to the season ticket holders along with a lunch pail. In the long run, that will be a mistake.

Bingo. In fact lying is hazardous, for if the lie is refuted, nothing is served, and further, there is more trouble.

My assessment that this is an overall issue stems very strongly from CG's no-talk policy and the Flyers panicked choreography. You betcha Flyers have a very good idea why Cutter wanted out.

Does it mean I like it. Of course not. I wish we didn't live in this world where such behavior is optimal. But then, I wish we also didn't live in a world where tanking was so important.
- PT21

Why do you feel the need to twist yourself into a pretzel to explain CG’s actions? When he chooses not to give you them….but your so sure the Flyers are being disingenuous?

They just told the fan base what actually happened from their point of view. Considering their comments on their future direction and the excitement surrounding the prospect I’m fine with their transparency. It’s not like there was a rebuttal or disagreement from CGs side on the Flyers statement of events. As it’s his right to not play in Philly it’s well within the Flyers rights to tell us what happened. If it paints him as a prima donna or unprofessional …oh well.
- landros 2

So, your idea of transparent and true statements are those made about someone who doesn't refute them?

Interesting, my man.

Lmao, gets salty about being described as “pedantic” ,follows it up with this post.

Let’s hear your credible sources on THE FACTS, since you have them and I don’t.
- FloHaake

My post is not pedantic. I have a knowledge of ELC's and how the contracts work. You obviously don't or you wouldn't have made the statement you made. I find your comments long on insults and short on FACTS. Perhaps you need to educate yourself.

Why do you feel the need to twist yourself into a pretzel to explain CG’s actions? When he chooses not to give you them….but your so sure the Flyers are being disingenuous?
- landros 2

What you call twisting into a pretzel I call reading the tea leaves.

I am not sure the Flyers are being disengenuous. I very strongly suspect so, but of course I am not so sure.

So, your idea of transparent and true statements are those made about someone who doesn't refute them?

Interesting, my man.
- PT21

Yes of course…no one has refuted what DB said…except you. Lol.

yours are to go with the side that has refused to talk? But you’ve got it all figured out.

What you call twisting into a pretzel I call reading the tea leaves.

I am not sure the Flyers are being disengenuous. I very strongly suspect so, but of course I am not so sure.
- PT21

The Flyers message was simple. If you don't want to play here, then you won't and that Gauthier didn't want to play here so they traded him. They stated that Gauthier told them in May of 23 that he wouldn't sign with them. He then would not talk to the Flyers. The Flyers went to Sweden to try one last time and he would not talk to him. All of this has been confirmed by numerous credible outside sources. What is disengenuous about that? Now Gauthier's side of the story and why he felt that way, has not been confirmed by anyone.

Your reading of the tea leaves has been an epic failure. Just a collection of inventions and fantasy that is not based on any of the known facts.

This promises to be an interesting take. It’s too cryptic for me as phrased. Can you explain?
- PT21

I am probably giving the new management team more forethought then they actually have but if the plan is to build a Stanley Cup contender without tanking, they are going to have to build it based on the top talent that would be available to them. If you look at the best talent taken after the top 10 it is usually defensemen, goaltenders and two way forwards. The Flyers will never get a MacKinnon outside of the top 5 but could get a Kopitar or ROR for centers and Karlsson and Josi for defensivemen. Instead of relying on a McDavid to break down an entire defense Corp, you create chaos with pinching defensemen backed by two way forwards with good goaltending to bail out the occasional odd man rush created by an over aggressive pinches.

The Flyers don’t have the defense Corp or the forward group to play that way but are still trying it anyway.

Yes of course…no one has refuted what DB said…except you. Lol.

yours are to go with the side that has refused to talk? But you’ve got it all figured out.
- landros 2

So, your standard of something being true is non-refutation. And silence = guilt.

Interesting.

I am probably giving the new management team more forethought then they actually have but if the plan is to build a Stanley Cup contender without tanking, they are going to have to build it based on the top talent that would be available to them. If you look at the best talent taken after the top 10 it is usually defensemen, goaltenders and two way forwards. The Flyers will never get a MacKinnon outside of the top 5 but could get a Kopitar or ROR for centers and McAvoy and Josi for defensivemen. Instead of relying on a McDavid to break down an entire defense Corp, you create chaos with pinching defensemen backed by two way forwards with good goaltending to bail out the occasional odd man rush created by an over aggressive pinches.

The Flyers don’t have the defense Corp or the forward group to play that way but are still trying it anyway.
- psuhockey

Wow. Wow. Wow.

I have read something extremely interesting, intelligent and original on Hockeybuzz.

I honestly think I am going to pass out.