I’m yawning I’m so bored

Yeah I can read that poop too. Doesn’t give you a shred of credibility, something you insist upon in your posting history.

Also, you’re simply nitpicking my wording in that post. I’m not saying it’s about “money” in terms of figures, I’m saying “money” as in “contracts, as in ELC’s if you like. It’s just a manner of speech that you are really hung up on, but ok man. Be a weird autistic guy about it, that’s fine. I’m also on the spectrum, so we will have some fun.
- FloHaake

I don't think you could make a weaker response. You're obviously uninformed. Nitpicking? LOL. No, I'm simply disproving your opinion and then in the obvious framework that you came from of being uninformed on the CBA, and ELC's. Now you're trying to make a semantics argument. Again, ELC contracts are pretty straight forward. There are max compensation limits and they are pretty standard across the board. It's not about a matter of speech. It's about facts. Being aware of the facts and being informed is being a weird autistic guy? LOL Okay. Perhaps you should stick to name calling. It seems as though that is the only thing you do well.

He’s not even in the top 85% of the league for offense. If offense was a product of coaching he should at least elevate Montreals out the bottom 5 teams in the whole NHL.

Montreal has 5 forwards taken in the top 16 of the draft. The Flyers have 3 yet they are 8th worst in the league under the offensively challenged Tortorella, three better than Montreal.
- psuhockey

How do you know that St' Louis hasn't elevated Montreal from where they would be under another coach? The point is that offense is coached. It's not just here is the puck. Watch the video I linked to with Laviolette. When you watch the Flyers play versus other teams. The Flyers don't play the same way. The overwhelming majority of offense that the Flyers get is from sheer hard work and one on one plays. It's not just talent although as I said previously, the Flyers offensive struggles are not all coaching. They don't help though. They could benefit from a better offensive assistant than Rocky Thompson.

It's about facts. Being aware of the facts and being informed is being a weird autistic guy?
- MJL

You don’t have any facts, unless you have credible contacts in the NHL. You say, for a fact, it was about the burning of a contract year as the main, even sole reason CG walked. I’ll grant you that as probably a reason, but to not be able to see a reasonable connection between the state of the Flyers as a franchise and an 18 year old stud who stands to make a poop ton of money saying “actually, all things considered I’d rather not” is purely stubborn.

The way you do it? Yes. Takes one to know one.

How do you know that St' Louis hasn't elevated Montreal from where they would be under another coach? The point is that offense is coached. It's not just here is the puck. Watch the video I linked to with Laviolette. When you watch the Flyers play versus other teams. The Flyers don't play the same way. The overwhelming majority of offense that the Flyers get is from sheer hard work and one on one plays. It's not just talent although as I said previously, the Flyers offensive struggles are not all coaching. They don't help though. They could benefit from a better offensive assistant than Rocky Thompson.
- MJL

So you argument is it could be worse than under St Louis without any evidence. Well it was worse for the Flyers in 2021-2022 the year before Tortorella was hired as they were 31 in the league for goals per game with Giroux JVR and Hayes on the roster. What is the evidence that Tortorella sucks at coaching offense?

You don’t have any facts, unless you have credible contacts in the NHL. You say, for a fact, it was about the burning of a contract year as the main, even sole reason CG walked. I’ll grant you that as probably a reason, but to not be able to see a reasonable connection between the state of the Flyers as a franchise and an 18 year old stud who stands to make a poop ton of money saying “actually, all things considered I’d rather not” is purely stubborn.

The way you do it? Yes. Takes one to know one.
- FloHaake

You're incorrect and are now conflating two different positions. I have not said that any reason that I proposed as a reason for why Gauthier decided not to play for the Flyers is a fact. Only that it is the most reasonable explanation based on what we know. You proposed that it was possibly a money issue and a contract issue. I explained to you why that is an unlikely reason. I certainly have facts in that situation, which I linked for you.

It's absolutely not at all stubborn when again, Gauthier was drafted in June of 2022. Eight months or so later, he was willing to play for the Flyers in March of 2023. It was not until May of 2023, a short two month period later when he informed the Flyers that he didn't want to play for them. Did the state of the Flyers franchise drastically change in that two month period when he changed his position? Was he not aware of the state of the Flyers franchise in the 8 months between when he was drafted and wanted to sign with the Flyers in March of 23? It is logical to think that if the state of the franchise was the reason why, it would've been the reason why from the get go and he never would've wanted to play for the Flyers at any point. We know that to not be the case.

So you argument is it could be worse than under St Louis without any evidence. Well it was worse for the Flyers in 2021-2022 the year before Tortorella was hired as they were 31 in the league for goals per game with Giroux JVR and Hayes on the roster. What is the evidence that Tortorella sucks at coaching offense?
- psuhockey

My evidence is watching the Flyers play and the weaknesses in his coaching that have partly prevented Tortorella from coaching a team that has advanced past the 2nd round of the playoffs but once in his last 16 seasons of coaching. It's certainly not due to his coaching of the defensive side of things. Tortorella demoted Hayes and cut his ice time when he was having a career offensive season. Due to he didn't like the way Hayes played. JVR doesn't seem to be having issues producing in Boston. JVR did not have a good season last year. Tortorella is not a good offensive coach and never will be. His systems and style of play, limit offense. The Flyers were incredibly poorly coached under Yeo and Vigneault. So bad defensively that they spent a ton of time in their own zone. The Flyers have a stronger roster now. Giroux only played 57 games for the 21/22 team. Farabee wasn't healthy, Couturier was absent. They averaged 2.56 G/GP played compared to 2.86 now. Not exactly lighting it up and now that the Flyers early season advantage is dwindling. The Flyers are struggling offensively. In the month of January, the Flyers are averaging 2.64 goals a game. Dwindling closer to that 2.59 mark.

My favorite part of this is the coach offense part. Edmonton does a great job of coaching offense. Cooper did a great job of coaching offense out of Kucherov this past week. Montgomery did the same for Pastrnak.
- psuhockey

Are you suggesting the coach's analysis added measurable value to the production of those players? I am willing to be persuaded but where is the evidence?

I have a different hypothesis for you. Hockey is unique amongst North American sports because of the continuous nature of the play. Baseball and football is naturally given to staccato plays. In baseball, pitchers and catchers have a back and forth before every pitch, the batter has time to think and so on. Football is even more scripted. In basketball, the unlimited timeouts provide for repeated set plays.

In hockey, timeouts are rare, and the play is evolving far more quickly, and large chunks are uninterrupted. Besides fairly banal concepts, coaching essentially boils down to very simple concepts but the implementation of it is what distinguishes teams, and that implementation depends on hockey IQ and skill.

If you measure team success and production, I suspect a gigantic part of it would be explainable by the latter 2 (individual traits) and coaching would play a very small part.

My evidence is watching the Flyers play and the weaknesses in his coaching that have partly prevented Tortorella from coaching a team that has advanced past the 2nd round of the playoffs but once in his last 16 seasons of coaching. It's certainly not due to his coaching of the defensive side of things. Tortorella demoted Hayes and cut his ice time when he was having a career offensive season. Due to he didn't like the way Hayes played. JVR doesn't seem to be having issues producing in Boston. JVR did not have a good season last year. Tortorella is not a good offensive coach and never will be. His systems and style of play, limit offense. The Flyers were incredibly poorly coached under Yeo and Vigneault. So bad defensively that they spent a ton of time in their own zone. The Flyers have a stronger roster now. Giroux only played 57 games for the 21/22 team. Farabee wasn't healthy, Couturier was absent. They averaged 2.56 G/GP played compared to 2.86 now. Not exactly lighting it up and now that the Flyers early season advantage is dwindling. The Flyers are struggling offensively. In the month of January, the Flyers are averaging 2.64 goals a game. Dwindling closer to that 2.59 mark.
- MJL

And yet the Martin St Louis coached Montreal team, your example of an offensive coach, has a lower goals per game.

Are you suggesting the coach's analysis added measurable value to the production of those players? I am willing to be persuaded but where is the evidence?

I have a different hypothesis for you. Hockey is unique amongst North American sports because of the continuous nature of the play. Baseball and football is naturally given to staccato plays. In baseball, pitchers and catchers have a back and forth before every pitch, the batter has time to think and so on. Football is even more scripted. In basketball, the unlimited timeouts provide for repeated set plays.

In hockey, timeouts are rare, and the play is evolving far more quickly, and large chunks are uninterrupted. Besides fairly banal concepts, coaching essentially boils down to very simple concepts but the implementation of it is what distinguishes teams, and that implementation depends on hockey IQ and skill.

If you measure team success and production, I suspect a gigantic part of it would be explainable by the latter 2 (individual traits) and coaching would play a very small part.
- PT21

You wrote 3 paragraphs to basically say you think talent and execution matters more than coaching. It does but that does not mean that coaching plays a very small part.

Boston is a perfect example. Boston was a mid pack offensive team. Jim Montgomery is hired. Recognizes that Boston is a great defensive team, so he makes zero changes to the defensive system in place. He changes the offensive system from a shot saturation team to a selective shot team. Coaches his team to keep possession and look for quality shots. He changed their breakouts to activate the weak side defenseman and get the team to play with speed. Completely changed their offensive approach and the result was the Bruins became a top offensive team as well as defensively with the same players. Won the Presidents trophy with a record setting regular season.


https://theathletic.com/3...ns-montgomery-new-system/

And yet the Martin St Louis coached Montreal team, your example of an offensive coach, has a lower goals per game.
- psuhockey

Montreal has very little offensive talent. The point of referencing St. Louis was to point out the video which explains how offense is created in the NHL and that it most definitely can be coached. Same with the Laviolette video.