This seems like a stretch to blame coach/management/flyers brass/im angry at this crew….

This is hockey. You actually should block shots if you can. Unfortunately you can get hit by pucks.

I get you’re frustrated and impatient to get a Stanley Cup…me too guy.

There are a ton of annoying things every day. Lets not manufacture stress on top of what we’re all feeling, yeah?
- Wingdestroyer

According to Torts, you don't block shots you don't play. Apparently even if you do block shots you don't play

Sorry my bad, I meant xGF 5v5, not xGF%. For xGF, TK is 3rd on the team, Frost is 11th. HDCF 5v5, Walker leads the team, TK is 4th, Frost is 12th. I don't like to use the % because they are misleading when the numbers are smaller. For example TK has 165 HDCF while Frost only has 103 which is a huge difference.
- jd250

A difference of 3.11 per game vs 2.45 per game. A little over half a chance. Not that huge when you factor in games played.

I could see justifying ND being in the line up if we had a legitimate goal scorer who needed to be protected from getting killed every game. He doesn't have to touch the ice to keep guys on the other team in check. We lack a top notch scorer that needs protection. Even Reaves has fallen out of favor in TOR. I don't support having ND in the line up.

Any chance we see Samu now that Forester will miss time?
- cdearth23

TK isn't legit?

Morgan frost. It always comes back to fancy stats or small sample sizes since he doesn’t do it consistently. What is he? He’s 25, he’s not a top 6 center on a good team. Will he ever be? Maybe on a bottom dweller.

Frost had a good second half of the season last year, and even this year especially lately he has been producing, there is no question about that. All I am saying is I agree that its misleading to state Frost lead the team in 5v5 scoring last season because if TK did not miss 21 games, he easily would have lead the team in 5v5 scoring as he does this year.

But, hey, Frost does look good as a Phantom, doesn't he?

- jd250

looks better like this:

looks better like this:


- TheFreak

bad goal let up by the goalie

Morgan frost. It always comes back to fancy stats or small sample sizes since he doesn’t do it consistently. What is he? He’s 25, he’s not a top 6 center on a good team. Will he ever be? Maybe on a bottom dweller.
- ClaudeFather

Maybe if he is given a chance to play all 82 games you can dismiss him if he doesn't produce but until then your argument is flawed. He has produced when given a chance, problem is how much he is given a chance.

Sorry my bad, I meant xGF 5v5, not xGF%. For xGF, TK is 3rd on the team, Frost is 11th. HDCF 5v5, Walker leads the team, TK is 4th, Frost is 12th. I don't like to use the % because they are misleading when the numbers are smaller. For example TK has 165 HDCF while Frost only has 103 which is a huge difference.
- jd250

Konecny has almost 250 mins more at ES than Frost, so comparing the raw counts doesn't really tell you very much.

Better comparison would be their per 60 rates... TK is at 2.92 (2nd amongst the forwards), Frost is 2.7 (6th).

On the other side of the puck Frost is 2nd on the team in xGA/60 at 2.03 (tied with Cates), which is why his overall xGF% rate is better than TK (5th at 2.28).

Maybe if he is given a chance to play all 82 games you can dismiss him if he doesn't produce but until then your argument is flawed. He has produced when given a chance, problem is how much he is given a chance.
- Flyerloon

What’s flawed about my post, let’s hear it. Why have multiple coaches now gone away from the kid time and time again?

First, just a minor but important correction, Frost has 25 points in 42 games, not the other way around.

Good point about TK being hurt last season, because you are right, 5v5 TK is the best scorer on this team, last year and this year. Also, this season TK is 3rd on the team in XGF%, Frost is 11th, TK is 2nd on the team in CF%, Frost is 10th. TK averages 14 minutes 5v5 per game, while Frost averages 12 minutes 5v5.
- jd250

You’re right! thank you. This is just a headache argument for me.

Morgan frost. It always comes back to fancy stats or small sample sizes since he doesn’t do it consistently. What is he? He’s 25, he’s not a top 6 center on a good team. Will he ever be? Maybe on a bottom dweller.
- ClaudeFather

Yet when you give Frost minutes, he produces...what makes you think he isn't a top 6 center? I am sure he can be a 60+ point producer if given the minutes....he does average almost a point a game when given the chance with real line mates, and not ND...

Boston: Zaccha, Coyle
Colorado: Ryan Johannson, Olofsson, Ross Colton
Edmonton: Ryan Mcleod, I don't count Draisaitl as he plays with McDavid so much
Florida: Bennett, Stenlund, Lundell, Lorentz
Tampa: Glendening, Motte, Cirelli
Vegas: Brisson, Howden, Karlsson, Roy

(These are guys who are not the true #1 on their teams...IE Peterson, Point, McDavid, etc, but the other centers listed on the teams according to TSN.)

I think frost would be as good or equal to most of these centers...Bennett and Cirelli are better, but guys like Coyle and Karlsson have roughly the same numbers as Frost, but playing on better offensive teams.

So I don't really agree with the statement he wouldn't be a top 6 center on a contender. Also, on a true contender, he would be playing with guys that can keep up better and produce better than where the Flyers have been for the last few years.

Yes, Vancouver and Toronto are loaded at center, but that seems to be the abnorminty than the norm.

bad goal let up by the goalie
- hello it's me 2050

He still looks better as a Flyer scoring goals than in an AHL uniform, no?

According to Torts, you don't block shots you don't play. Apparently even if you do block shots you don't play
- jd250

Find the quote and send it to me please.

But also….what’s your problem with that? Do you give your pals poop when they shy away? Seems pretty standard?

Yet when you give Frost minutes, he produces...what makes you think he isn't a top 6 center? I am sure he can be a 60+ point producer if given the minutes....he does average almost a point a game when given the chance with real line mates, and not ND...

Boston: Zaccha, Coyle
Colorado: Ryan Johannson, Olofsson, Ross Colton
Edmonton: Ryan Mcleod, I don't count Draisaitl as he plays with McDavid so much
Florida: Bennett, Stenlund, Lundell, Lorentz
Tampa: Glendening, Motte, Cirelli
Vegas: Brisson, Howden, Karlsson, Roy

(These are guys who are not the true #1 on their teams...IE Peterson, Point, McDavid, etc, but the other centers listed on the teams according to TSN.)

I think frost would be as good or equal to most of these centers...Bennett and Cirelli are better, but guys like Coyle and Karlsson have roughly the same numbers as Frost, but playing on better offensive teams.

So I don't really agree with the statement he wouldn't be a top 6 center on a contender. Also, on a true contender, he would be playing with guys that can keep up better and produce better than where the Flyers have been for the last few years.

Yes, Vancouver and Toronto are loaded at center, but that seems to be the abnorminty than the norm.
- TheFreak

This guy has not been stapled to the fourth line, let’s stop pretending that. He hasn’t produced. You watch him and he’ll have a good game and then he goes unnoticed. He’s not consistent.

Konecny has almost 250 mins more at ES than Frost, so comparing the raw counts doesn't really tell you very much.

Better comparison would be their per 60 rates... TK is at 2.92 (2nd amongst the forwards), Frost is 2.7 (6th).

On the other side of the puck Frost is 2nd on the team in xGA/60 at 2.03 (tied with Cates), which is why his overall xGF% rate is better than TK (5th at 2.28).
- Tomahawk

Yes but these are stats a fan is only going to notice if you're only looking for excuses for the player.

You know what I hear when someone mentions that Morgan Frost was our lead scorer at even strength in the second half of last season? I hear..."Well if the season was only 41 games, no special teams, he played 5 more minutes a game, he never gets scratched, he was playing with top 6 talent and his linemates scored every time he passed them the puck in the offensive zone, Morgan Frost would be our best player."

Well, if my Aunt had nuts, she'd be my uncle. That's just hockey.

Yes but these are stats a fan is only going to notice if you're only looking for excuses for the player.

You know what I hear when someone mentions that Morgan Frost was our lead scorer at even strength in the second half of last season? I hear..."Well if the season was only 41 games, no special teams, he played 5 more minutes a game, he never gets scratched, he was playing with top 6 talent and his linemates scored every time he passed them the puck in the offensive zone, Morgan Frost would be our best player."

Well, if my Aunt had nuts, she'd be my uncle. That's just hockey.
- roenick97

Haha yes

Sorry my bad, I meant xGF 5v5, not xGF%. For xGF, TK is 3rd on the team, Frost is 11th. HDCF 5v5, Walker leads the team, TK is 4th, Frost is 12th. I don't like to use the % because they are misleading when the numbers are smaller. For example TK has 165 HDCF while Frost only has 103 which is a huge difference.
- jd250

Among forwards, Frost is 6th in xGF. If you think that the percentage is misleading, then you clearly don't understand it. It's not at all misleading unless the sample is small. Which with Frost, it's not. Konecny has played over 220 minutes more than Frost has at 5 on 5. Which is the entire point of using rate.

cant wait until frostsky is traded so wont have to hear about him on a daily basis.

a true flyers legend
- hello it's me 2050

If he pulls a Patrick Sharp you will hear about it even more....

Frost had a good second half of the season last year, and even this year especially lately he has been producing, there is no question about that. All I am saying is I agree that its misleading to state Frost lead the team in 5v5 scoring last season because if TK did not miss 21 games, he easily would have lead the team in 5v5 scoring as he does this year.


- jd250

No, it's not at all misleading. It would be misleading if someone was trying to say Frost was as good or better than Konecny. Which is not the case. What it's simply saying is that Frost produced last year offensively. So why in the hell is the idiot coach scratching him?

This guy has not been stapled to the fourth line, let’s stop pretending that. He hasn’t produced. You watch him and he’ll have a good game and then he goes unnoticed. He’s not consistent.
- ClaudeFather

Yet nothing on other top teams centers compared to Frost.

Not pretending he is stapled to the fourth line. However, it was over half the season last year that he was playing with guys like ND/ third liners. My point was, guys like Coyle, Bennet etc are playing with talent, and not lower line players..so their numbers should be better than Frosts, yet their numbers are similar.

What is consistantancy? Points every game? Being noticable every single shift (laughable to think even the best do this) 7 points in 10 games? on the same points pattern as last year, even with less games that have been played? What do you consider consistant.

You could, if you wanted to, pick TK's game apart to...analyzing every shift instead of his body work over 10 game periods.

Yes but these are stats a fan is only going to notice if you're only looking for excuses for the player.

You know what I hear when someone mentions that Morgan Frost was our lead scorer at even strength in the second half of last season? I hear..."Well if the season was only 41 games, no special teams, he played 5 more minutes a game, he never gets scratched, he was playing with top 6 talent and his linemates scored every time he passed them the puck in the offensive zone, Morgan Frost would be our best player."

Well, if my Aunt had nuts, she'd be my uncle. That's just hockey.
- roenick97

In today's woke world, not necessarily

Yes but these are stats a fan is only going to notice if you're only looking for excuses for the player.

You know what I hear when someone mentions that Morgan Frost was our lead scorer at even strength in the second half of last season? I hear..."Well if the season was only 41 games, no special teams, he played 5 more minutes a game, he never gets scratched, he was playing with top 6 talent and his linemates scored every time he passed them the puck in the offensive zone, Morgan Frost would be our best player."

Well, if my Aunt had nuts, she'd be my uncle. That's just hockey.
- roenick97

I hate this being chucked out like this. Taken out of context for sure. The point being made is that many on here judge Frost simply by his point output. If he is doing everything he can, and sets the puck up beautifully for his linemate, and his linemate fails to connect, the nay sayers are saying see..Frost sucks, he doesn't score enough. But if even 1 in 3 of those chances he sets up gets scored, Frost would have another 8-10 points this year. Frost as still done his job, carried the puck, and fed the other forwards. They fail at their job, and Frost is judged because of it.

Yes but these are stats a fan is only going to notice if you're only looking for excuses for the player.
- roenick97

Who offered any excuses?

The numbers are the numbers. Frost has been very good all year on both sides of the puck. Period.

Who offered any excuses?

The numbers are the numbers. Frost has been very good all year on both sides of the puck. Period.
- Tomahawk

Calling Morgan Frost our lead scorer for any reason is misleading and mentioning that “Konecny has almost 250 mins more at ES than Frost, so comparing the raw counts doesn't really tell you very much” is an excuse. Konency is easily the better player of the two.

Calling Morgan Frost our lead scorer for any reason is misleading and mentioning that “Konecny has almost 250 mins more at ES than Frost, so comparing the raw counts doesn't really tell you very much” is an excuse. Konency is easily the better player of the two.
- roenick97

Not misleading, it is the truth. The numbers don't lie.

No one is saying Frost is better than TK, the excuse was thrown out there that the only reason Frost was the leading scorer over the last 3/4 of last year was because TK was injured. It had nothing to do with Frost stepping up to the plate and delivering. Numbers have been provided to show it was not a big gap between TK and Frost, but nowhere have I seen anyone saying Frost is better than TK.