Scott Laughton just building up that trade value.

Thought Walker was noticeable as well.

I'm not complaining. The other guy asked who I think is a more physical player and I think TK is a more physical player than Frost. That's all.
- Phillywhiteout

I do too.

Glenn Anderson could put up points and throw some nice checks...he out hit Gretzky in his career.
I would still prefer Gretzky. As he was the better playmaker, scorer, puck controller, etc.

Point is, Frost and TK, while both being point producing forwards, play the game in different ways. And that is fine. TK is more physical, Frost is more finesse. TK has a better shot, Frost is the better playmaker. They both have great assets to their games, doesn't make one a significantly better player. Both Barkov and Tkachuk are in Florida, and it works because they have diversity to their games, and their styles of play compliment each other.

No, not comparing Frost to Gretzky and Barkov. Just similar situations were you have finesse and talent, and physical play and talent on the same eams, and how it has worked ok for those teams.

But Frost hasn't consistently played the right way, that is the only fact that you want to ignore. How long have I said to you that Frost some nights is not noticeable? How many times have I said to you that Frost defers too much, should shoot more, drive more plays, not stay on the perimeter so much? Search your feelings you know this to be true! (Sorry, I just had to throw that in there) Torts came out the other day and again last night and said almost the exact same thing, i.e. when Frost attacks the center of the ice things open up for him to use his speed and skill, and that is exactly what I have seen from him not just last night, but in the past 3 or so games. If he can finally just do this consistently, we will never be talking about Frost being pulled from the lineup again. This is the way Frost has to play to be an effective player in this league. He is not TK as you have been arguing with others this morning. He is not going to agitate or kill penalties. He is a skill player that needs to play assertively all the time, not just some of the time, all the time!
- jd250

I read the first two sentences and stopped reading. The facts say you're wrong. Just as you always are.

Fact of the Day:

Ryan Ellis has made more money per game played than McDavid.
- Glak18

They say he is ramping it up and should be ready for opening night

Nah .. sorry, not going to let you off the hook on this one. You can't have it both ways. You can't on one hand say Torts is getting the most out of this team, but on the other say he is mishandling Frost. Nope, sorry, doesn't work that way. Torts either is a good coach that gets the most out of his players or he isn't. All players are not the same, and thus you cannot coach them the same way. There are too many players on this team that have flourished under Torts for you to have any argument that how Frost has been coached is wrong. IMO, this is the coaching Frost has needed to get to the next level. Whether Frost can do it consistently is totally up to him.
- jd250

Oh my goodness, what am I going to do? Lol

The list of players that Tortorella has mishandled include Frost, York, Cates, Zamula and Brink. He has devalued players such as Hayes and Angelo.

But Frost hasn't consistently played the right way, that is the only fact that you want to ignore. How long have I said to you that Frost some nights is not noticeable? How many times have I said to you that Frost defers too much, should shoot more, drive more plays, not stay on the perimeter so much? Search your feelings you know this to be true! (Sorry, I just had to throw that in there) Torts came out the other day and again last night and said almost the exact same thing, i.e. when Frost attacks the center of the ice things open up for him to use his speed and skill, and that is exactly what I have seen from him not just last night, but in the past 3 or so games. If he can finally just do this consistently, we will never be talking about Frost being pulled from the lineup again. This is the way Frost has to play to be an effective player in this league. He is not TK as you have been arguing with others this morning. He is not going to agitate or kill penalties. He is a skill player that needs to play assertively all the time, not just some of the time, all the time!
- jd250

Thought you said he just had to score to stay in the NHL earlier this year.

I love TK as you know, and I really want him to be part of the this team. However if this is the term and AAV, I have to walk away if I am the Flyers.
- jd250

why he is better than pasta so in theory he should make more no?

Am I the only one thrilled with Frost’s game last night? Am I the only one that is starting to see more consistent efforts? Just at 200 career games….as far as skill, he may be at the top of the list on this team. They need to get that out of him. The one thing I do like is Torts likes the kid. He wants to work with him. If Frost can deliver efforts like he did last night, then this is a guy you keep.
Not all players develop or get it figured out early in their career. I still think Frost is just scratching the surface…Let’s hope it’s here when he gets it all figured out.

No, you are wrong.

You could see him looking over his shoulder, his shoulders would drop when the other team scores, it was noticable that he was playing like a player who was afraid to make a mistake.

What did Torts teach him? Enlighten me? His scratching just caused friction, has divided a fan base over 1 player, and set his play back. What he needed to do was TRUST the player, and let him play. Show that he belongs through working with him on his deficiencies in practice and letting him play. Coach him up when a mistake is made during a game, talk to him on the bench. The approach Torts took was wrong, and he is lucky, in my opinion, that Frost has responded the way he has to every bit of controversy sent his way since he was in juniors.
- TheFreak

Torts is lucky?? What a joke!

You absolutely have no clue what you are talking about here. The job of a coach is to teach the player to play the right way, and once a coach sees that happen consistently then and only then is trust established. That is why TK can make mistake after mistake and still play 20 minutes a night, because the coach trusts him and knows TK plays the right way. There is a difference between playing the right way and making mistakes, and playing the wrong way and making mistakes. As long as Frost keeps playing an assertively, he will make mistakes like we all do, but he will have no need to look over his shoulder.

In recent games

2 assists against Dallas
2 assists against Colorado
2 assists against Tampa Bay
Goal and an assist against Winnipeg
- MJL

once again bringing in a post from another thread, something you criticize others on. you fraud.

does the dallas game count though as they took the flyers lightly....

It's antics and it's bad coaching.
- MJL

You think Torts is a bad coach? No one expected the flyers to contend for a playoff spot this year, and the reason they are is torts. Even if they dont make the playoffs, i think everyone would agree they are playing better than anyone thought.

Scott Laughton just building up that trade value.

Thought Walker was noticeable as well.
- J35Bacher

He was better again last night…I don’t think he gets moved as I don’t think someone offers enough, for what DB thinks he’s worth.

You think Torts is a bad coach? No one expected the flyers to contend for a playoff spot this year, and the reason they are is torts. Even if they dont make the playoffs, i think everyone would agree they are playing better than anyone thought.
- bradster

Torts record and sheer longevity as a coach answers that question.

I swear it is the same argument every day.

"Insert player here" is playing well. good for the player to make adjustments.


"insert player here" is not playing well. (frank)ing Torts is a terrible coach and doesn't know players or coaching

Very different players, tough comparison. I’d say at this point Jake is a better player, couple more seasons like this from TK and maybe that changes. TK though, you love what you’re getting from him and he’s a bit of a one man army. Jake always felt like you wanted more, like he could have been better.
- ClaudeFather

jake has more skill. tk brings it and like his overall package better. There is a reason jake has played on noting but losing teams and no contending team wanted him.

any contender would take TK

Both things are true.
- mickel25

This may be the case.

Torts is lucky?? What a joke!

You absolutely have no clue what you are talking about here. The job of a coach is to teach the player to play the right way, and once a coach sees that happen consistently then and only then is trust established. That is why TK can make mistake after mistake and still play 20 minutes a night, because the coach trusts him and knows TK plays the right way. There is a difference between playing the right way and making mistakes, and playing the wrong way and making mistakes. As long as Frost keeps playing an assertively, he will make mistakes like we all do, but he will have no need to look over his shoulder.
- jd250

Again, the available facts show that Frost plays the game the right way and has been playing the right way going back to last season. That any mistrust the coach has or has had is completely unjustified.

Thought you said he just had to score to stay in the NHL earlier this year.
- TheFreak

Wow are you thick! What I said is Frost has to generate scoring chances consistently to stay in this league, and that I thought he needed to shoot more and defer less. Obviously if Frost plays more assertively and attacks the center of the ice more, he will generate more scoring chances and thus score more points (goals or assists, it does not matter).

once again bringing in a post from another thread, something you criticize others on. you fraud.

does the dallas game count though as they took the flyers lightly....
- hello it's me 2050

It was in response to a poster who posted the same thing yesterday, so the same response was warranted.

And he was still a country clubber that took many nights off. He COULD have been so much more if he had the fire that TK has. Yep, not budging! you keep talking about points. How many goals did he have? That number could have been much higher if he went to the net more. That's a fact Jack!

- Phillywhiteout

jake= bobby abreau

Torts is lucky?? What a joke!

You absolutely have no clue what you are talking about here. The job of a coach is to teach the player to play the right way, and once a coach sees that happen consistently then and only then is trust established. That is why TK can make mistake after mistake and still play 20 minutes a night, because the coach trusts him and knows TK plays the right way. There is a difference between playing the right way and making mistakes, and playing the wrong way and making mistakes. As long as Frost keeps playing an assertively, he will make mistakes like we all do, but he will have no need to look over his shoulder.
- jd250

It’s not hard….if your going to make some mistakes you had better be producing or performing on the the other side of the puck….hence why TK and Tippets often escape Tort’s wrath…now even Farabee can be added to that list.

Again, the available facts show that Frost plays the game the right way and has been playing the right way going back to last season. That any mistrust the coach has or has had is completely unjustified.
- MJL

Depends on what you consider relevant facts to be. It just so happens how Torts sees the game is pretty much how I see the game, and it's apparent that how Torts and I see the game is much different than how you see the game. It's not all about spreadsheets.

Frost would be a better player now if it wasn't for Tortorella and Yeo.
- MJL

is this a fact or opinion cliff? how does your dad feel seeing frostsky play these days.

Wow are you thick! What I said is Frost has to generate scoring chances consistently to stay in this league, and that I thought he needed to shoot more and defer less. Obviously if Frost plays more assertively and attacks the center of the ice more, he will generate more scoring chances and thus score more points (goals or assists, it does not matter).
- jd250

Dude ...you said repeatedly at the start of the season that he needs to put up points to stay in the lineup. He was scratched after doing that....you have again changed your direction, trying to prove what you are saying is right.

You have been very wrong about Frost for a very long time, and have been called out about it by pretty much everyone on this board, Bill included.

Do you happen to have a list of pointless nights on the team?
- ClaudeFather

for frost just looked at the game logs.