If I am starting a team and I have TK or Pasta to pick, I am picking TK. TK is a better all around player than Pasta is IMO.
- jd250

You're going to die on that Mt. Everest hill of stupidity, aren't you?

You don't do that if you're able to talk to the Gauthier camp through the agent. That simply tells us that the agent is full of crap. Combined with what the independent outside sources have said confirming what the Flyers have said happened.
By all reports, the primary reason the Flyers flew to Sweden was to try and talk to Gauthier.
- MJL

How is this Gauthiers problem? They can do whatever they want, if he wants no contact, it's no contact. The way they have portrayed this whole Sweden trip is that they expected to talk to him...but if he had told them no, go through the agent, not signing, trade me, plss off, etc, etc, etc, then why have any different expectation of a meeting with him in person in Sweden? It 's like they threw that in there just to say they travelled around the world and was shunned by him. If there was no contact since the summer as they state, why would they expect any different outcome?

let's just agree to disagree. I am not into hours of arguing the same point.

You don't think the timing of Fletcher's firing which coincided with the end of the BC season had anything to do with this? How do we know Briere even had the ability to sign Gauthier or anyone until things got settled within the organization?
- jd250

Doesn't matter. It's not a legitimate reason. The Flyers were completely stupid in not signing him when he wanted to. If they had, they'd have a potential elite player in the stable. Why wouldn't he have had the ability?

You also have to consider that under Fletcher they hoped Gauthier could be a center, a position Gauthier never played until he started at BC. There was concern at the time that Gauthier needed more time to learn the position. I think when Briere came in he saw Gauthier as I did, a winger. This could have played a factor also. The thing you are not considering is the timing of the Fletcher firing and the impact it had, creating flux within the organization as Briere started in the role.

If you want to say the Flyers eff'd up, I would say they eff'd up by not firing Fletcher much sooner in the season and surely not allowing him to be GM through the trade deadline.
- jd250

but what you don't seem to understand is that is a Flyer issue, not a Gauthier issue.

Telling a stud, young, first round pick you can't sign him right now because the franchise is in turmoil...how is this Gauthiers problem? If he was a part of the future, like he was supposed to be, then the contract signing for a player of his skill and draft position should be almost automatic.

See again we differ...I would say they fuqed up when they considered even hiring Fletcher.

Wait .. I would take Matthews over TK. I'm crazy but not that crazy.
- jd250

Really?! You don’t think Matthews is overrated? He’s got a top 15 winger dishing him sweet passes. TK has nothing like that.

How is this Gauthiers problem? They can do whatever they want, if he wants no contact, it's no contact. The way they have portrayed this whole Sweden trip is that they expected to talk to him...but if he had told them no, go through the agent, not signing, trade me, plss off, etc, etc, etc, then why have any different expectation of a meeting with him in person in Sweden? It 's like they threw that in there just to say they travelled around the world and was shunned by him. If there was no contact since the summer as they state, why would they expect any different outcome?

let's just agree to disagree. I am not into hours of arguing the same point.
- TheFreak

Whether it is Gauthier's problem or not is a different conversation. That evidence that the Flyers did that, tells us that his agent is full of crap in saying that there was communication after a certain point. No, the way the Flyers portrayed it was that they flew to Sweden to attempt to talk to him. The Flyers couldn't even communicate with the agent after he told them he didn't want to play for them when they tried to sign him. An expectation doesn't matter. The Flyers had the rights to the player and were in their rights to try and talk to the player.

The mess the Flyers are/ were in is not Gauthiers issue. You have a top 5 draft pick, at the time he was the top prospect in the organization. He had just completed the year at BC....how many teams don't sign their first rounders to elc's, especially one as hyped as Gauthier who WANTED to sign and the team said no. To originally say they were signing him, be it Fletcher or whoever, and then change their minds, is wrong. If Fletcher promised it, and Gauthier did not have a bad year when he wanted to sign, then they should have signed him He did meet expectations for that year, and there was no reason to not sign him to his elc. I can see a top prospect being insulted by this.
The Flyers fuqed up.
- TheFreak

I’m totally fine with how the Flyers treated him. No one has contradicted what DB’s or Jonesy said. Not one account has been given. Both guys are x players who know what is right and what is wrong. I have never heard ONE bad word from any other player, let alone a prospect who hasn’t proved f*** all, say something against either guy. In the end I agree it sucks to lose a talented, but obviously arrogant kid.
I think Drysdale is a solid pick up. He has a solid attitude and solid character…but I would have been fine if the Flyers held onto him longer and given him the Bob Clarke treatment. Jonesy hit it on the head…”if you don't want to be a Flyer, you won’t be a Flyer.”
Kid’s game better translate into the NHL…or he’ll find out real fast that you better walk the walk if that’s how you want to conduct yourself.

but what you don't seem to understand is that is a Flyer issue, not a Gauthier issue.

Telling a stud, young, first round pick you can't sign him right now because the franchise is in turmoil...how is this Gauthiers problem? If he was a part of the future, like he was supposed to be, then the contract signing for a player of his skill and draft position should be almost automatic.

See again we differ...I would say they fuqed up when they considered even hiring Fletcher.
- TheFreak

Agree completely on that aspect.

Doesn't matter. It's not a legitimate reason. The Flyers were completely stupid in not signing him when he wanted to. If they had, they'd have a potential elite player in the stable. Why wouldn't he have had the ability?
- MJL

Exactly.

I am not saying the way this was handled by either side is desirable, I just think the whole situation was easily avoidable.

Seeing the word elite attached to multple different aspects of his game digs the dagger a little bit deeper.

Doesn't matter. It's not a legitimate reason. The Flyers were completely stupid in not signing him when he wanted to. If they had, they'd have a potential elite player in the stable. Why wouldn't he have had the ability?
- MJL

The president and GM was just fired. It was clear Dave Scott was stepping down. Briere was given an interim GM role. Hilferty was probably preparing to take over for Scott. Given all the change that was happening, it's quite possible that Briere was told, hey don't do anything in terms of contracts until things get settled down. It's just speculation, but something I can see happening.

but what you don't seem to understand is that is a Flyer issue, not a Gauthier issue.

Telling a stud, young, first round pick you can't sign him right now because the franchise is in turmoil...how is this Gauthiers problem? If he was a part of the future, like he was supposed to be, then the contract signing for a player of his skill and draft position should be almost automatic.

See again we differ...I would say they fuqed up when they considered even hiring Fletcher.
- TheFreak

So you know something no one else knows? We can’t sign you right now because our organization is in turmoil?

The president and GM was just fired. It was clear Dave Scott was stepping down. Briere was given an interim GM role. Hilferty was probably preparing to take over for Scott. Given all the change that was happening, it's quite possible that Briere was told, hey don't do anything in terms of contracts until things get settled down. It's just speculation, but something I can see happening.
- jd250

I doubt this.

why does everything have to be a big conspiracy theory, and why is it the Flyers are always wrong to many in the fan base? I mean, OK, the franchise has had a bad decade or so, but they cleaned house top to bottom, why can't we take this new leadership at its word and see what happens, instead of just presuming everything they say is a lie and is wrong. Because an agent said so? Because agents never lie or mislead, right?
- jd250

I don’t understand what the argument is here. Doesn’t seem like anyone is lying to me. The flyers said they didn’t speak to the player and they didn’t. They spoke to the agent. They wanted to speak to the player. They tried to speak to the player in Sweden. He wouldn’t speak to them. I imagine Briere and Jonsey felt they might be able to work things out if they could talk to the player directly. They never got that opportunity. As I see it the Flyers (frank)ed up by not signing him when they had their chance. The player/agent was insulted and decided they didn’t want to deal with a management team that they perceived to be amateurish.

So you know something no one else knows? We can’t sign you right now because our organization is in turmoil?
- landros 2

That is one of JD's theories. I was responding to how silly that sounds.

If I am starting a team and I have TK or Pasta to pick, I am picking TK. TK is a better all around player than Pasta is IMO.
- jd250

Bro, you really gonna triple down on that nonsense?

The president and GM was just fired. It was clear Dave Scott was stepping down. Briere was given an interim GM role. Hilferty was probably preparing to take over for Scott. Given all the change that was happening, it's quite possible that Briere was told, hey don't do anything in terms of contracts until things get settled down. It's just speculation, but something I can see happening.
- jd250

There is a difference between not willing to and not being able to. If you draft a player and decide not to offer him an ELC. You had the ability to sign him, you just chose not to. If any of that is a reason why, then that is more proof that the Flyers are the dysfunctional crew that many, myself included have accused them of being. It would be pure, undeniable incompetence.

Absolutely. If TK was playing with a 1C he’d have 60 goals and nobody would be talking about Matthews.
- Minnyhock

Bro, you really gonna triple down on that nonsense?
- Tomahawk

Triple? LOL, were way past that.

Exactly.

I am not saying the way this was handled by either side is desirable, I just think the whole situation was easily avoidable.

Seeing the word elite attached to multple different aspects of his game digs the dagger a little bit deeper.
- TheFreak

I suggest you wait to plunge the dagger in deep until Gauthier actually plays a few pro games. Like I said, he is a good player, but I have watched a dozen BC games live this year and I honestly don't think he is the best player on that team. Smith is the best player IMO, and I think Leonard is better also. As freshman both Smith and Perreault have more points than Gauthier and Leonard is not far behind them.

You want to legitimate second guess? The Flyers could have drafted both Leonard and Perreault in this draft! Depending on if Michkov can even get here and how Bonk develops, this may end up being a much deeper dagger to deal with.

I don’t understand what the argument is here. Doesn’t seem like anyone is lying to me. The flyers said they didn’t speak to the player and they didn’t. They spoke to the agent. They wanted to speak to the player. They tried to speak to the player in Sweden. He wouldn’t speak to them. I imagine Briere and Jonsey felt they might be able to work things out if they could talk to the player directly. They never got that opportunity. As I see it the Flyers (frank)ed up by not signing him when they had their chance. The player/agent was insulted and decided they didn’t want to deal with a management team that they perceived to be amateurish.
- Dkos

Thank you. I agree with this. The way Briere said no contact implied no contact from their side. At least, that was how i took it. The agent claiming differently...I am sure the agent and the team spoke a couple of times.

I just don't trust this leadership group right now.

I don’t understand what the argument is here. Doesn’t seem like anyone is lying to me. The flyers said they didn’t speak to the player and they didn’t. They spoke to the agent. They wanted to speak to the player. They tried to speak to the player in Sweden. He wouldn’t speak to them. I imagine Briere and Jonsey felt they might be able to work things out if they could talk to the player directly. They never got that opportunity. As I see it the Flyers (frank)ed up by not signing him when they had their chance. The player/agent was insulted and decided they didn’t want to deal with a management team that they perceived to be amateurish.
- Dkos

The Flyers account is that after a certain point, they couldn't communicate with the agent or the player.

Thank you. I agree with this. The way Briere said no contact implied no contact from their side. At least, that was how i took it. The agent claiming differently...I am sure the agent and the team spoke a couple of times.

I just don't trust this leadership group right now.
- TheFreak

Again, there are numerous highly credible independent outside sources who have confirmed the Flyers account of what happened. There is not one credible source that I'm aware of that have contradicted the Flyers side of the story.

There is a difference between not willing to and not being able to. If you draft a player and decide not to offer him an ELC. You had the ability to sign him, you just chose not to. If any of that is a reason why, then that is more proof that the Flyers are the dysfunctional crew that many, myself included have accused them of being. It would be pure, undeniable incompetence.
- MJL

But Briere did offer him an ELC and a chance to play for the Flyers this year, just that he offered it in May and not March. So you are telling me that because Gauthier could not play for the Flyers in a few games at the end of last season is the reason for all this? Is that really justified?

I suggest you wait to plunge the dagger in deep until Gauthier actually plays a few pro games. Like I said, he is a good player, but I have watched a dozen BC games live this year and I honestly don't think he is the best player on that team. Smith is the best player IMO, and I think Leonard is better also. As freshman both Smith and Perreault have more points than Gauthier and Leonard is not far behind them.

You want to legitimate second guess? The Flyers could have drafted both Leonard and Perreault in this draft! Depending on if Michkov can even get here and how Bonk develops, this may end up being a much deeper dagger to deal with.
- jd250

I am not worried about Michkov and his ability to get over here. The Bonk pick I was disappointed with at the time, but maybe we just found a Brayden Coburn to go with Drysdale.

But Briere did offer him an ELC and a chance to play for the Flyers this year, just that he offered it in May and not March. So you are telling me that because Gauthier could not play for the Flyers in a few games at the end of last season is the reason for all this? Is that really justified?
- jd250

yes and yes