When you learn to lighten up and have more fun.
- jd250

I'm very lightened. I thoroughly enjoy this forum. You provide daily laughter and entertainment!

Making the playoffs in extremely valuable when a team is trying to build a winning culture and develop their younger players. I don't think Briere is over-valuing making the playoffs to a point that will stop him from making deals for the future of this team. If it did then I would say the Flyers are over-valuing making the playoffs this year and are back to short sighted thinking.
- jd250

No it's not. It's extremely invaluable in comparison to building a quality roster. If you build that roster, that is what builds a culture. You're so brainwashed with buzzwords that are really just BS. It remains to be seen what they do between now and Friday.

Making the playoffs in extremely valuable when a team is trying to build a winning culture and develop their younger players. I don't think Briere is over-valuing making the playoffs to a point that will stop him from making deals for the future of this team. If it did then I would say the Flyers are over-valuing making the playoffs this year and are back to short sighted thinking.
- jd250

Remember all those PO appearances under Hexy? Did they really make that much difference for the development of guys like TK, Sanheim, Provy, Hagg, Ghost, etc? Did playing in the post season make them all mature, clutch, brimming with compete and replete with winning intangibles? Not really. They were all still dragged into the team-wide collapse of the Fletch years due to insufficient talent on the team.

When a team is talented enough and playing well enough winning organically happens. Focusing too much on the culture aspect is the tail wagging the dog.

Remember all those PO appearances under Hexy? Did they really make that much difference for the development of guys like TK, Sanheim, Provy, Hagg, Ghost, etc? Did playing in the post season make them all mature, clutch, brimming with compete and replete with winning intangibles? Not really. They were all still dragged into the team-wide collapse of the Fletch years due to insufficient talent on the team.

When a team is talented enough and playing well enough, winning organically happens. Focusing too much on the culture aspect is the tail wagging the dog.
- Tomahawk

Well stated. Wish I had worded it that way. He thinks the "culture" and "standard" that Tortorella is supposedly bringing the team is going to be the springboard to the ultimate success. It's not. That's not what wins. That's not how you win. Those buzzwords are the "used car" that the used car salesman is selling.

And they were pegged to be a bottom 5 team. Torts just doing a phenomenal job.
- ClaudeFather

Someone here actually has a brain

Remember all those PO appearances under Hexy? Did they really make that much difference for the development of guys like TK, Sanheim, Provy, Hagg, Ghost, etc? Did playing in the post season make them all mature, clutch, brimming with compete and replete with winning intangibles? Not really. They were all still dragged into the team-wide collapse of the Fletch years due to insufficient talent on the team.

When a team is talented enough and playing well enough winning organically happens. Focusing too much on the culture aspect is the tail wagging the dog.
- Tomahawk

Those teams were as soft as Charmain toilet paper. They weren't made for the playoffs. They never had shot in any of those series with the exception of the 2012 series when the Pens tried to outgun them. And those teams didn't have the young talent that this team has that could use some playoff experience going forward.

Remember all those PO appearances under Hexy? Did they really make that much difference for the development of guys like TK, Sanheim, Provy, Hagg, Ghost, etc? Did playing in the post season make them all mature, clutch, brimming with compete and replete with winning intangibles? Not really. They were all still dragged into the team-wide collapse of the Fletch years due to insufficient talent on the team.

When a team is talented enough and playing well enough winning organically happens. Focusing too much on the culture aspect is the tail wagging the dog.
- Tomahawk

nailed it

Those teams were as soft as Charmain toilet paper. They weren't made for the playoffs. They never had shot in any of those series with the exception of the 2012 series when the Pens tried to outgun them. And those teams didn't have the young talent that this team has that could use some playoff experience going forward.
- Phillywhiteout

You badly missed the point.

You badly missed the point.
- MJL

I guess I did. I'll show myself out. I just wanted to pick on Giroux and Voracek one more time, and didn't read it thoroughly.

When you learn to lighten up and have more fun.
- jd250

him beating you down every day is his fun

Remember all those PO appearances under Hexy? Did they really make that much difference for the development of guys like TK, Sanheim, Provy, Hagg, Ghost, etc? Did playing in the post season make them all mature, clutch, brimming with compete and replete with winning intangibles? Not really. They were all still dragged into the team-wide collapse of the Fletch years due to insufficient talent on the team.

When a team is talented enough and playing well enough winning organically happens. Focusing too much on the culture aspect is the tail wagging the dog.
- Tomahawk

Who was coaching? I thought the playoffs brought the very best out of a young Mike Richards, who I didn’t think was the most offensively gifted player on any team he played on. Peter Laviolette deserves credit for taking timely timeouts and knowing what buttons to push. Giroux very early in his career was a pleasure to watch in the playoffs. Briere who was an Arizona cast out who was one of the best playoff performers every April and May in his time. Sean Couturier with a hat trick as a rookie in the playoffs, as well as shuts down Malkin. Also playing with a high ankle sprain a couple years later. I guess there is no longer room for new memories.

Nothing wrong with seeing what the kids can do.

Well stated. Wish I had worded it that way. He thinks the "culture" and "standard" that Tortorella is supposedly bringing the team is going to be the springboard to the ultimate success. It's not. That's not what wins. That's not how you win. Those buzzwords are the "used car" that the used car salesman is selling.
- MJL

Tell me, how are the Flyers winning games this year? On talent or buy-in? I agree that culture and buy-in can only get a team so far, but it is the foundation of a successful program. The level of talent is what dictates ultimately how far the team goes.

I've spent the last couple months super agitated by posters (on all boards) and podcasters consistently hammering on the "same old flyers brass" and "I guess the rebuild is over" poop. The whole time I was waiting for this deadline (and off-season) to circle back and enjoy the crow buffet. I REALLY LIKE Danny and Keith Jones as dudes. Keith Jones is legit one of my favorite people related to Philadelphia sports. When they all continued to double down on the fact they were gonna keep their eye on the prize and build this team the right way, I wanted to believe them SO MUCH.

I've been a Flyers fan for a long time, and while i've been frustrated I've never truly felt betrayed before. I know the trade deadline isn't the ONLY place to make moves for the future, but if they not only fail to get interesting assets at the deadline, but also RESIGN benign players for larger than necessary contracts....i'm gonna feel cheated and lied to. Fingers crossed DB comes through with a 4th QTR comeback on Friday.

JIC....anyone with Photoshop skills able to make a PHILADELPHIA LIARS logo?
- Wingdestroyer

I posted the same kinda thing about a week ago. I have been a fan since March 10, 1980..and never have I felt just flat out lied to by the team. SIgning either of Walker or Seeler is a mistake. Throw in the bobbling of Gauthier, and after so many years of Fletcher...my patience is at it's end.
Why, just once, can't they just build the right way. Not once since the late 1980's have they actually built a team from the bottom up, with a purpose in mind. Briere has lied multiple times to the fan base, and the tdl seems to be another.

I don't trust the front office at all, and I think many don't and that is why there is so many questions about what they will do. They will be Flyers....bring in players for the playoffs, and announce the signings of Walker and Seeler to a collective 10 years and 48 million in salary. Laughton was never getting traded, once we FAIL to even make the playoffs, I don't know how much longer I will be following the team.

Tell me, how are the Flyers winning games this year? On talent or buy-in? I agree that culture and buy-in can only get a team so far, but it is the foundation of a successful program. The level of talent is what dictates ultimately how far the team goes.
- jd250

What happens if a team with terrible talent buys in? What happens if a team with low level talent with buy in meets a team in the playoff with high level talent and buy in? You answered yourself with your last statement. You have the cart before the horse. The talent is the bedrock, not culture and buy in. You're brainwashed by these so called intangibles. There is a reason why Tortorella coached teams haven't gone anywhere in close to 20 years.

What happens if a team with terrible talent buys in? What happens if a team with low level talent with buy in meets a team in the playoff with high level talent and buy in? You answered yourself with your last statement. You have the cart before the horse. The talent is the bedrock, not culture and buy in. You're brainwashed by these so called intangibles. There is a reason why Tortorella coached teams haven't gone anywhere in close to 20 years.
- MJL

Or perhaps those team simply didn't have the talent to win. It's a known fact that Torts usually gets the most of which he has to work with and that fact can't be disputed.

Who was coaching? I thought the playoffs brought the very best out of a young Mike Richards, who I didn’t think was the most offensively gifted player on any team he played on. Peter Laviolette deserves credit for taking timely timeouts and knowing what buttons to push. Giroux very early in his career was a pleasure to watch in the playoffs. Briere who was an Arizona cast out who was one of the best playoff performers every April and May in his time. Sean Couturier with a hat trick as a rookie in the playoffs, as well as shuts down Malkin. Also playing with a high ankle sprain a couple years later. I guess there is no longer room for new memories.

Nothing wrong with seeing what the kids can do.
- roenick97

Briere played all of 6 PO games before the age of 28. He didn't develop his clutch and missing the playoffs all those years in a row in his 20's didn't hamper him or stunt him.

When his game really started to blossom and when the players around him got better, his clutch was suddenly apparent.

Tell me, how are the Flyers winning games this year? On talent or buy-in? I agree that culture and buy-in can only get a team so far, but it is the foundation of a successful program. The level of talent is what dictates ultimately how far the team goes.
- jd250

Exactly. And how will this team acquire the assets necessary to increase the talent level when they're "going for it"? Not trading expiring contracts & overspending to resign non-elite players.

Or perhaps those team simply didn't have the talent to win. It's a known fact that Torts usually gets the most of which he has to work with and that fact can't be disputed.
- Phillywhiteout

And that leads to worse draft results which worsens the lack of talent... it's a negative feedback loop.

Briere played all of 6 PO games before the age of 28. He didn't develop his clutch and missing the playoffs all those years in a row in his 20's didn't hamper him or stunt him.

When his game really started to blossom and when the players around him got better, his clutch was suddenly apparent.
- Tomahawk

Alright. What about Giroux, Couturier and Richards?

Or perhaps those team simply didn't have the talent to win. It's a known fact that Torts usually gets the most of which he has to work with and that fact can't be disputed.
- Phillywhiteout

why didn't those teams have the talent? is one reason maybe talented players avoid playing for torts?

you think any elite free agents will sign here? less a severe overpay?

the flyers are built on depth and hard work. They still not have embraced you need elite level players. Not just one or 2.

It will never change until the team is sold and it is all flushed out. That will not happen any time soon.

Alright. What about Giroux, Couturier and Richards?
- roenick97

G had a massive chip on his shoulder from going undrafted in junior. He entered the league w/ something to prove. His compete and fire were there long before Lavy. See his '08 Mem Cup run w/ Gatineau.

Richie was the same. He came into the league w/ the Bobby Clarke mentality and he was already clutch in Kitchener. Also that Phantoms run as a rookie pro.

Coots development was a function of linemates. Chief kept lining him up bottom-six w/ Aaron Asham and such, burying him in the dzone. Once Hak started playing him with half-decent players his play driving started translating into production

G had a massive chip on his shoulder from going undrafted in junior. He entered the league w/ something to prove. His compete and fire were there long before Lavy. See his '08 Mem Cup run w/ Gatineau.

Richie was the same. He came into the league w/ the Bobby Clarke mentality and he was already clutch in Kitchener.

Coots development was a function of linemates. Chief kept lining him up bottom-six w/ Aaron Asham and such, burying him in the dzone. Once Hak started playing him with half-decent players his play driving started translating into production
- Tomahawk

These are great back stories but what point are you trying to make? They were young players who seemed to show an extra jolt when the games mattered the most.

Devils fire Ruff! They aren't gonna give up on this season. Big trade incoming for them.

These are great back stories but what point are you trying to make? They were young players who seemed to show an extra jolt when the games mattered the most.
- roenick97

The point is that the young players on the Flyers likely aren't going to benefit one way or the other by playing in the PO's this spring. The ones who are clutch will emerge as clutch when the time comes. It's not some poop you develop.

The focus should be on assembling as much talent as possible, not aiming for playoff experience for the kids.

Or perhaps those team simply didn't have the talent to win. It's a known fact that Torts usually gets the most of which he has to work with and that fact can't be disputed.
- Phillywhiteout

It absolutely can.

He usually gets a team to overperform in it's first 2 seasons and then said team slowly devolves into a grinding mess of mediocrity over the next few years.