Could you imagine if Torts gets kicked upstairs and Lappy is promoted?

Sorry to ruin anyone’s sleep.

What matters more? Where you were drafted or how you play?
- MJL

The question for me is are generational players born or made? Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby and McDavid were all projected as generational and then went out and showed it. They were born while I see Lidstrom and Ovi not born.

Your point is well taken though. My perception could be wrong. I see Lidstrom as a highly skilled chess master on skates.

He had hand surgery. Of all the things that one could question, debate or second-guess of late, wearing cast after surgery isn't one.
- bmeltzer

It would only be relevant if it turned out Coots earned his scratches by accidentally shutting the bus door on his hand.

I’m not gonna die on that hill. When he came on the scene he wasn’t generational but certainly played that way. Ovi is but it’s more the goals overshadowing anything else he did by a long shot. He will probably be the all time goal scorer but outside of that he resembles Matthews as a generational goal scorer.Matthews has to keep doing it but I could see him getting there.
- Minnyhock

Nik's Euro style just wasn't really as appreciated back when he started. People were still judging dmen by size, strength, truculence, slap shot power, etc. But the guy was always 100% quietly dominant. (Just see what he did to 88 and the LOD in '97)

Ovi is generational in talent but I don't think he was really ever at the same level as Sid in totality. Sid just does everything.

AM is more complete but I think he's missing that little extra obsessive/competitive fire that Sid has.

so then to the one behind the great. you think lindros was more dominant than lemeuix? interesting
- Peter Richards

Why are you arguing with me about MY opinion that you are purposefully misrepresenting. I said Lindros, in his prime, was the most dominating player I have seen, You disagree, move on.

What other generational players are really out there that haven't won?

McDavid's the only one by my count and he's too good to not win one eventually.
- Tomahawk

I said that about Lindros

Could you imagine if Torts gets kicked upstairs and Lappy is promoted?

Sorry to ruin anyone’s sleep.
- StepfordSam

I can't imagine that because I'm sure they want Shaw as the next coach. If they lose him to another NHL team next season and Torts is still the head coach in Philly, get ready for some major regression. Just like happened after every decent season going back to 2012.

Ray Ferraro said the same thing on his podcast last week.
- Feanor

Interesting... I will look it up!

I don't know how old you are but IMO watching him play he was the most dominant player I have ever seen in his prime.
- MBFlyerfan

If there was an open NHL draft he would be my #1 overall pick. With no hindsight available.

Shame how the NHL treated him.

I said that about Lindros
- TheFreak

If McDavid gets multiple severe concussions in a season like Lindros, he won't ever win a Cup.

Really no justification for it. If he doesn’t want to coach or they don’t want him to coach, good luck elsewhere.
- Flyers1218

This. No need to give him a job because you want him removed from coaching.

I can't imagine that because I'm sure they want Shaw as the next coach. If they lose him to another NHL team next season and Torts is still the head coach in Philly, get ready for some major regression. Just like happened after every decent season going back to 2012.
- Feanor

Truly, the first thought I had when reading that article!

I can't imagine that because I'm sure they want Shaw as the next coach. If they lose him to another NHL team next season and Torts is still the head coach in Philly, get ready for some major regression. Just like happened after every decent season going back to 2012.
- Feanor

Chuck got his hand-picked successor.

Torts will get his hand-picked successor.

What's not to love?

I can't imagine that because I'm sure they want Shaw as the next coach. If they lose him to another NHL team next season and Torts is still the head coach in Philly, get ready for some major regression. Just like happened after every decent season going back to 2012.
- Feanor

They are regressing next year regardless of what happens to the coaching staff.

I can't imagine that because I'm sure they want Shaw as the next coach. If they lose him to another NHL team next season and Torts is still the head coach in Philly, get ready for some major regression. Just like happened after every decent season going back to 2012.
- Feanor

Also been frequently seeing the narrative pop up that Shaw is the real reason behind the Flyers' success and Torts is wrongly getting all the credit.

Wonder where that originated from.

He had hand surgery. Of all the things that one could question, debate or second-guess of late, wearing cast after surgery isn't one.
- bmeltzer

I am aware of the surgery and I was mostly kidding. It is a visual distraction though.

The question for me is are generational players born or made? Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby and McDavid were all projected as generational and then went out and showed it. They were born while I see Lidstrom and Ovi not born.

Your point is well taken though. My perception could be wrong. I see Lidstrom as a highly skilled chess master on skates.
- Minnyhock

At least you understood how where they were drafted is part of the conversation


What is the criteria you're using there. How do you make a player into a 800 plus goal scorer? Or into a 7 time norris trophy winner and a 12 time all star defenseman?

[code

Love that my JORTS nickname is gaining steam]
- THE BLACK HAND

As a creative director I pride myself on attention to detail. Well done with that nick.

Agreed 100% To me Lemieux would have surpassed Gretzky if he was healthy.
- jd250

But health and longevity is part of the game. That Gretzky could play at that level for so many years is amazing.

As I said to my kid as we where watching McDavid...it would take a rookie nhler almost 30 - 100 point seasons to pass Gretzky...I was introduced to hockey in 1980, and saw all of Gretzky, Lemieux, Yzerman, Bourque, etc etc...just an amazing amount of talent to grow into hockey from European football.

But health and longevity is part of the game. That Gretzky could play at that level for so many years is amazing.

As I said to my kid as we where watching McDavid...it would take a rookie nhler almost 30 - 100 point seasons to pass Gretzky...I was introduced to hockey in 1980, and saw all of Gretzky, Lemieux, Yzerman, Bourque, etc etc...just an amazing amount of talent to grow into hockey from European football.
- TheFreak

It's unreal. Have to keep in mind that back then, Gretzky and Lemieux were putting up 200 point seasons. That doesn't happen anymore obviously.

It's unreal. Have to keep in mind that back then, Gretzky and Lemieux were putting up 200 point seasons. That doesn't happen anymore obviously.
- MJL

LOL..ok then 15-150 point seasons, seeing as McDavid broke that barrier for the first time in like 30 years.

Still mind numbing looking at the numbers

Mario never broke 200 points, hit 199 once, his next most was 168.

LOL..ok then 15-150 point seasons, seeing as McDavid broke that barrier for the first time in like 30 years.

Still mind numbing looking at the numbers

Mario never broke 200 points, hit 199 once, his next most was 168.
- TheFreak

Gretzky and Lemieux have the first 13 highest point totals for an individual season.

Nik's Euro style just wasn't really as appreciated back when he started. People were still judging dmen by size, strength, truculence, slap shot power, etc. But the guy was always 100% quietly dominant. (Just see what he did to 88 and the LOD in '97)

Ovi is generational in talent but I don't think he was really ever at the same level as Sid in totality. Sid just does everything.

AM is more complete but I think he's missing that little extra obsessive/competitive fire that Sid has.
- Tomahawk

Not to take anything away from Lidstrom but he had a lot of help. I think the Wings outmaneuvered the Flyers. Larry Murphy played his best hockey ever and he and Lidstrom finessed them. Vlad played heavy and so did their grinders. The Wings weren’t the most talented but they played an elite team game.

Eric Lindros was probably the most complete hockey player. Won't debate generational. We were spoiled during his time because he could do it all and take over a game. Many of us fans are still waiting for someone to do that. The issue is that it takes 5 different players to win a fight, lay a big hit, forecheck, make an amazing pass, score a game changing goal. #88 did it all. Sometimes in the same shift.

I didn't realize how much of a punk he was until he was wearing a different jersey.

But I am glad that he healed his relationship in Philly.

I think Lindros just wanted to be one of the guys. I think guys like Mario and Gretzky were driven to be more. I dont know how to explain it, but, to me, prime Lindros is still greatest hockey player I've ever seen. Size, skill, aggression. He was pure hockey. In hindsight, I think it probably would have worked out better for the Flyers and for Lindros if he had never come to the Flyers, but man it was glorious watching him while it lasted.
- Dkos

All I remember as a 12 year old boy was the legion of doom, every single shift, cycling the puck in the offensive end. They never played in the defensive end. I don’t remember such a thing