They are regressing next year regardless of what happens to the coaching staff.
- psuhockey

This team would suck without torts. If they let up an inch they’re a 70 point team next year

So who in here is Vito
- THE BLACK HAND

My username is actually a hybrid of some of my favorite films - The Godfather (1+2) and Pixote (a somewhat obscure film from Brazil in the 1980s).

This team would suck without torts. If they let up an inch they’re a 70 point team next year
- Just5

How long until the players realize that they're not ultimately getting anywhere by not letting up an inch?

I'm surprised you don't realize his team isn't any better than 19-20, 17-18, 15-16, 13-14, 11-12, etc.
- Feanor

It’s all relative compared to what they were supposed to be.

This was supposed to be a dumpster fire of a season. It isn’t. It has been fun.

It’s all relative compared to what they were supposed to be.

This was supposed to be a dumpster fire of a season. It isn’t. It has been fun.
- Flyers1218

I just don't buy that. They weren't expected to be a playoff team and certainly not as good as they have been but they're not devoid of talent.

The had 75 points last year with Couturier playing 0 games.

This year they are pacing for 92 points with Couturier pacing for 45 points in 72 GP.

At least you understood how where they were drafted is part of the conversation


What is the criteria you're using there. How do you make a player into a 800 plus goal scorer? Or into a 7 time norris trophy winner and a 12 time all star defenseman?
- MJL

What criteria are you using? Orr is generational. Who among his contemporaries could you make a comparison? An old timer told me that Brad Park was recognized as the best after Orr. Not even close. The Lidstrom era had greats like Bourque, Robinson, Potvin,etc. All great defensemen but are they generational? Not to me.

All the generational players have a great amount of flair and flash in their game. Lidstrom had some of that. But I saw him as playing with robotic precision and perfection.

I’m fine with anyone calling him generational.

What criteria are you using? Orr is generational. Who among his contemporaries could you make a comparison? An old timer told me that Brad Park was recognized as the best after Orr. Not even close. The Lidstrom era had greats like Bourque, Robinson, Potvin,etc. All great defensemen but are they generational? Not to me.

All the generational players have a great amount of flair and flash in their game. Lidstrom had some of that. But I saw him as playing with robotic precision and perfection.

I’m fine with anyone calling him generational.
- Minnyhock

For a defenseman, Norris trophies, Stanley cup wins, all star appearances, games played and points. Is being a generational player about flair and fluff or about performance. As you said, with Lidstrom, perfection. Not just for a few years but for 20 seasons into his 40's. At 41 years old, he finished 5th in Norris voting. When a player is in the discussion for the best player ever at his position, that's a generational player. Regardless of how flashy he wasn't

So who in here is Vito
- THE BLACK HAND

Just a coincidence I’m sure that someone with Andolini in their handle is commenting on someone going by the black hand with an image of Don Fanucci.

For a defenseman, Norris trophies, Stanley cup wins, all star appearances, games played and points. Is being a generational player about flair and fluff or about performance. As you said, with Lidstrom, perfection. Not just for a few years but for 20 seasons into his 40's. At 41 years old, he finished 5th in Norris voting. When a player is in the discussion for the best player ever at his position, that's a generational player. Regardless of how flashy he wasn't
- MJL

Does Chris Chelios fit your criteria?

Right way to handle it (half-heartedly or not): "It wasn't his night. The effort was there ."

Wrong way to handle it: Shrug, tap the podium, walk away.
- bmeltzer

Agree. Instead of shrugging and tapping the podium, Tortorella should have said he was non-competitive.

You seem very quick to criticize Tortorella, yet with incompetent boobs who the Flyers employed it was crickets.

How does Tortorella's coaching career stack up against Holmgren's?

How's Chuck Fletcher doing these days? Where in the NHL is he working after running the Flyers into the ground.

Not to take anything away from Lidstrom but he had a lot of help. I think the Wings outmaneuvered the Flyers. Larry Murphy played his best hockey ever and he and Lidstrom finessed them. Vlad played heavy and so did their grinders. The Wings weren’t the most talented but they played an elite team game.
- Minnyhock

Nik and Larry played great and Scotty defied conventional wisdom by matching them up on the LOD.

I remember how incredulous I was at the time that such a big, fearsome team just rolled over like that in the Finals. But in hindsight the Flyers weren't in the Wings' league on the ice and behind the bench. Flyers looked like a juggernaut on paper but they were actually way overmatched in just about every respect that mattered.

For a defenseman, Norris trophies, Stanley cup wins, all star appearances, games played and points. Is being a generational player about flair and fluff or about performance. As you said, with Lidstrom, perfection. Not just for a few years but for 20 seasons into his 40's. At 41 years old, he finished 5th in Norris voting. When a player is in the discussion for the best player ever at his position, that's a generational player. Regardless of how flashy he wasn't
- MJL

I was using perfection in the sense that he made fewer mistakes, nobody is perfect. I didn’t say generational was about flair and fluff. When a player is generational
flash and flair are in abundance. Nothing about fluff. You can argue that Lidstrom was better than Bourque, Robinson, Potvin, etc. but some won’t agree. He was in a small group of elite but not generational defensemen of his time imo.

We disagree but I don’t lose any sleep when someone disagrees with me and I’m pretty sure it’s the same for you. Not trying to win an argument here. Just putting out my opinion.It was a good discussion.

I was using perfection in the sense that he made fewer mistakes, nobody is perfect. I didn’t say generational was about flair and fluff. When a player is generational
flash and flair are in abundance. Nothing about fluff. You can argue that Lidstrom was better than Bourque, Robinson, Potvin, etc. but some won’t agree. He was in a small group of elite but not generational defensemen of his time imo.

We disagree but I don’t lose any sleep when someone disagrees with me and I’m pretty sure it’s the same for you. Not trying to win an argument here. Just putting out my opinion.It was a good discussion.
- Minnyhock

and don't you dare try that again, or else...

This team would suck without torts. If they let up an inch they’re a 70 point team next year
- Just5

What's wrong with that?

Nik and Larry played great and Scotty defied conventional wisdom by matching them up on the LOD.

I remember how incredulous I was at the time that such a big, fearsome team just rolled over like that in the Finals. But in hindsight the Flyers weren't in the Wings' league on the ice and behind the bench. Flyers looked like a juggernaut on paper but they were actually way overmatched in just about every respect that mattered.
- Tomahawk

Scotty was a genius at putting players in their proper roles. He was a master at getting matchups and making adjustments quickly. As good as that Wings team was, it was a great example of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts.

and don't you dare try that again, or else...
- anti-lame

Nik and Larry played great and Scotty defied conventional wisdom by matching them up on the LOD.

I remember how incredulous I was at the time that such a big, fearsome team just rolled over like that in the Finals. But in hindsight the Flyers weren't in the Wings' league on the ice and behind the bench. Flyers looked like a juggernaut on paper but they were actually way overmatched in just about every respect that mattered.
- Tomahawk

Against the Wings but not against everyone else. Bowman smartly elected not to try and battle the LOD physically down low but instead stayed on top of them and concentrated on denying them possession of the puck. It worked to a charm.

I was using perfection in the sense that he made fewer mistakes, nobody is perfect. I didn’t say generational was about flair and fluff. When a player is generational
flash and flair are in abundance. Nothing about fluff. You can argue that Lidstrom was better than Bourque, Robinson, Potvin, etc. but some won’t agree. He was in a small group of elite but not generational defensemen of his time imo.

We disagree but I don’t lose any sleep when someone disagrees with me and I’m pretty sure it’s the same for you. Not trying to win an argument here. Just putting out my opinion.It was a good discussion.
- Minnyhock

Fluff or flash and flair. All the same to me. Just generic vague terms. I'm not trying to win an argument. I'm just trying to have a conversation. I enjoy that and you're one of the smarter and best posters on here to have that with. I just don't see how a player who is regarded as one of the top 5 players ever to play his position, is not a generational player.

[code

Love that my JORTS nickname is gaining steam]
- THE BLACK HAND

Gaining steam? Cause one other clueless soul uses your stupid ass nickname?

Agree. Instead of shrugging and tapping the podium, Tortorella should have said he was non-competitive.

You seem very quick to criticize Tortorella, yet with incompetent boobs who the Flyers employed it was crickets.

How does Tortorella's coaching career stack up against Holmgren's?

How's Chuck Fletcher doing these days? Where in the NHL is he working after running the Flyers into the ground.
- PLindbergh31

I hear Hexy and Chuckles are making donuts at Tim Hortons.

They are regressing next year regardless of what happens to the coaching staff.
- psuhockey

The coaching trajectory of JT seems gto be unusually predictable (except the Canucks flame-out).

(a) Start coaching when a team is significantly underachieving, often joining team during regular season.
(b) show remarkable improvement in ppg (a 20% odd swing) in year 2/3.
(c) Deterioration after that.
(d) collapse/let go.

Cresting early, sharply, and only once.

I hear Hexy and Chuckles are making donuts at Tim Hortons.
- Phillywhiteout

After Hexy got there everybody quit.

88 was absolutely generational. One or two twists in the fabric of time and he he wins at least one: Brindy instead of Foppa in the trade for him; Cujo signed instead of Beezer; Clarke is the one who trades for Roy or Bourque; all for example.

The coaching trajectory of JT seems gto be unusually predictable (except the Canucks flame-out).

(a) Start coaching when a team is significantly underachieving, often joining team during regular season.
(b) show remarkable improvement in ppg (a 20% odd swing) in year 2/3.
(c) Deterioration after that.
(d) collapse/let go.

Cresting early, sharply, and only once.
- PT21

Torts is going upstairs after this season anyway (God help us all) and Berube will be the coach next season.