This is a little good for him, but also how bad has the Pens farm system been.

DOC is the first forward to come through the system since Guentzel, Rust, and Sheary did it around the Cup years to reach 15 goals. Or 30 points.
- Tojo.

Don't usually have players coming up and contributing that well when you're trading every top-60 draft pick. Yager looks like a keeper, tohugh.

2023/2024 TOI per game is 12:32...only down 70 seconds from season before. Only 9:16 TOI at 5 on 5 but finds himself -6. Of Penguins forwards to have played more than 100 mins of 5 on 5 this season (18 in total) he is:

15th in xGF%
15th in SCF%
16th in HDCF%
16th in CF%

When he missed a few games, a few weeks back, the 4th line actually looked dangerous for the first time in a few years.

Having said all of that I was really happy for him to get that goal last night. That goal should have meant a lot more than it ended up meaning last night. Should have been the winner. I like BJC as a human and respect his career.

Pretty cool he ended up being only 1 of 25 players in history to have 19 double digit goal seasons though.
- MattStrat

Right... They looked good with Gruden. That was the first time all season where they were able to drive play and eat minutes. Great goal for Carter last night. Probably won the game considering the circumstance, but most of the night he was standing still watching the play buzz around him. I can't believe our coach watches the tape and keeps him in the lineup.

If we make the playoffs, gotta get Gruden back up here.

This is a little good for him, but also how bad has the Pens farm system been.

DOC is the first forward to come through the system since Guentzel, Rust, and Sheary did it around the Cup years to reach 15 goals. Or 30 points.
- Tojo.

For the Penguins, this is true. Sundqvist had 14G, 17A, 31 pts. in St Louis. Kapanen had a couple of good seasons outside of Pittsburgh. I guess we could debate whether he came thru our system or Toronto. Blueger had 22 pts. in the shortened '21 season. He was on pace for around 33.

That's not many, but as our Flyer friend said, we've abandoned our farm system for a long time.

For the Penguins, this is true. Sundqvist had 14G, 17A, 31 pts. in St Louis. Kapanen had a couple of good seasons outside of Pittsburgh. I guess we could debate whether he came thru our system or Toronto. Blueger had 22 pts. in the shortened '21 season. He was on pace for around 33.

That's not many, but as our Flyer friend said, we've abandoned our farm system for a long time.
- Thunderbolt

Edit: Ignored is a more appropriate word than abandoned.

58 and 65 are gonna be the death of me. They make errors that would get a peewee player slapped.

It's not even high risk high reward mistakes we can live with. It's completely unnecessary and idiotic decisions as the last man back.

Ned was hung out to dry a few times resulting in goals but he is trending poorly. Last 5 games he has 1 above 900.

Bryan Rust has been (frank)ing stellar since he's been back. That pass last night was beautiful, patience, poise, precision.

Zoho was invisible last night in his 4:40 of ice time.

Man I’ll never forget when for whatever reason Eric Cairns busted down from the point and Sid hit him with a tap in. Then Andre Roy streaking up the middle and Sid hits him, he tries to go forehand back hand, looses the puck and it goes 5 hole.

Right... They looked good with Gruden. That was the first time all season where they were able to drive play and eat minutes. Great goal for Carter last night. Probably won the game considering the circumstance, but most of the night he was standing still watching the play buzz around him. I can't believe our coach watches the tape and keeps him in the lineup.

If we make the playoffs, gotta get Gruden back up here.
- madmike71

Do you like ever watch what he’s actually doing or do you just follow the puck around with your eyes? The passing lane to get through Carter is never there, and if it is it’s usually some broken (frank)ed up play. I think you should watch the tape. If Geno had Carters hockey brain dude would be unstoppable. Well that and if he worked out.

58 and 65 are gonna be the death of me. They make errors that would get a peewee player slapped.

It's not even high risk high reward mistakes we can live with. It's completely unnecessary and idiotic decisions as the last man back.

Ned was hung out to dry a few times resulting in goals but he is trending poorly. Last 5 games he has 1 above 900.

Bryan Rust has been (frank)ing stellar since he's been back. That pass last night was beautiful, patience, poise, precision.

Zoho was invisible last night in his 4:40 of ice time.
- Thorny87

Zoho being invisible is par for the course. He’s good for some solid performances at the beginning of the season when he has BCE (big callup energy) but he does absolutely nothing after settling into the season. I get the end of the season with the playoffs on the line isn’t exactly the time to hold big club tryouts but may as well call up Gruden or Poulin since their bigger unknowns and maybe will provide you something more than a known commodity as a warm body.

Zoho being invisible is par for the course. He’s good for some solid performances at the beginning of the season when he has BCE (big callup energy) but he does absolutely nothing after settling into the season. I get the end of the season with the playoffs on the line isn’t exactly the time to hold big club tryouts but may as well call up Gruden or Poulin since their bigger unknowns and maybe will provide you something more than a known commodity as a warm body.
- Victoro311

I was hoping he'd have renewed BCE. Alas.
Not sure how that effects the ability to call the other 2 you mentioned back up but it seems like a waste

Zoho being invisible is par for the course. He’s good for some solid performances at the beginning of the season when he has BCE (big callup energy) but he does absolutely nothing after settling into the season. I get the end of the season with the playoffs on the line isn’t exactly the time to hold big club tryouts but may as well call up Gruden or Poulin since their bigger unknowns and maybe will provide you something more than a known commodity as a warm body.
- Victoro311

He wasn't invisible. He took a dumb penalty, that while the Wings didn't capitalize on, seemed to revitalize them in the game.

Do you like ever watch what he’s actually doing or do you just follow the puck around with your eyes? The passing lane to get through Carter is never there, and if it is it’s usually some broken (frank)ed up play. I think you should watch the tape. If Geno had Carters hockey brain dude would be unstoppable. Well that and if he worked out.
- Grinder47

Ha... I get your brand and all, but c'mon. Do you watch the games? There's not one statistic that backs up your claims. He's objectively awful. Regular stats, advanced stats, eye test. He's cooked. Nothing wrong with a very good player being cooked, but a coach should treat him as such.

This is from a column on DKs site after the TO game. This is the player I'm watching. What are you watching?


Bad enough that Carter's fourth line was stuck on the rink for a 1:50 shift. Worse that Carter still couldn't get off after an icing. Worse still that he'd get cleaned by Pontus Holmberg on the draw. And then ... I mean, box the guy out, the way the rookie Jack St. Ivany does just a few feet away. Or front the guy to try to play the pass. But don't just do nothing.

I'd long ago given up on Carter producing points, and I'll even tolerate to a tiny extent his participation on the second power-play unit. But when he's also the team's worst possession forward by a metric mile -- when he's been on the ice at five-on-five through this 6-0-3 streak, the Penguins have a pathetic 30.63% of all shot attempts -- and he's registered zero takeaways and a whopping two blocked shots defensively ... one wouldn't think he'd be logging shift totals of 24, 23, 25, 22 and 17, as he has over the past five games.

It's nuts. He was out there, it seemed, every time I looked up from the laptop the other night. In the third period. Needing a goal to tie over much of that time.

Ha... I get your brand and all, but c'mon. Do you watch the games? There's not one statistic that backs up your claims. He's objectively awful. Regular stats, advanced stats, eye test. He's cooked. Nothing wrong with a very good player being cooked, but a coach should treat him as such.

This is from a column on DKs site after the TO game. This is the player I'm watching. What are you watching?


Bad enough that Carter's fourth line was stuck on the rink for a 1:50 shift. Worse that Carter still couldn't get off after an icing. Worse still that he'd get cleaned by Pontus Holmberg on the draw. And then ... I mean, box the guy out, the way the rookie Jack St. Ivany does just a few feet away. Or front the guy to try to play the pass. But don't just do nothing.

I'd long ago given up on Carter producing points, and I'll even tolerate to a tiny extent his participation on the second power-play unit. But when he's also the team's worst possession forward by a metric mile -- when he's been on the ice at five-on-five through this 6-0-3 streak, the Penguins have a pathetic 30.63% of all shot attempts -- and he's registered zero takeaways and a whopping two blocked shots defensively ... one wouldn't think he'd be logging shift totals of 24, 23, 25, 22 and 17, as he has over the past five games.

It's nuts. He was out there, it seemed, every time I looked up from the laptop the other night. In the third period. Needing a goal to tie over much of that time.
- madmike71

Yeah man, I even called out how bad he's looked in a few games lately. I usually don't during, or right after, a game. I more so haul up a body of work of his like I did earlier. I also noticed him on the ice a lot in the dying stages of regulation in the Leafs game but I think that was for faceoffs because Sid was having equipment malfunctions.

Just saw a stat that seems hard to believe.

The Pens lead the league in goals scored from the point when there is a screen by 5 goals over the next closest team the Avs.

- DeflatedPucks

Now that is the biggest loser and liar ever

https://www.msn.com/en-us...aa-tournament/ar-BB1lvu5T

Maybe the cupboard isn't so bare.

Yeah man, I even called out how bad he's looked in a few games lately. I usually don't during, or right after, a game. I more so haul up a body of work of his like I did earlier. I also noticed him on the ice a lot in the dying stages of regulation in the Leafs game but I think that was for faceoffs because Sid was having equipment malfunctions.
- MattStrat

My gripe is 100% Sullivan. If your going to use him, should have given Carter 40-50 games max. Keep him fresh and pick and choose the bad matchups.

My gripe is 100% Sullivan. If your going to use him, should have given Carter 40-50 games max. Keep him fresh and pick and choose the bad matchups.
- madmike71

The one silver lining if you can even call it that in it is that we don’t really have the personnel for a good fourth line anyways so Carter being washed is kind of neither here nor there. I’d be much more upset about it if Poulin showed something while he was up or if Acciari was a good a center and someone you could build a unit around, but Poulin was mostly invisible and Acciari sucks at C. He’s a much better winger where he can just focus on grinding and not have to be the 4th line’s lynchpin. Not having a 4C blows up anything we might want to go with that unit. Hopefully that Russian kid can step in next year.

The one silver lining if you can even call it that in it is that we don’t really have the personnel for a good fourth line anyways so Carter being washed is kind of neither here nor there. I’d be much more upset about it if Poulin showed something while he was up or if Acciari was a good a center and someone you could build a unit around, but Poulin was mostly invisible and Acciari sucks at C. He’s a much better winger where he can just focus on grinding and not have to be the 4th line’s lynchpin. Not having a 4C blows up anything we might want to go with that unit. Hopefully that Russian kid can step in next year.
- Victoro311

The 4th line looked really, really good when Carter missed a few games. So, I think its possible the personnel is in the system to have a better 4th line sans BJC.

The 4th line looked really, really good when Carter missed a few games. So, I think its possible the personnel is in the system to have a better 4th line sans BJC.
- MattStrat

My thoughts exactly. We have no idea because our coach dumps into default mode if everybody is healthy. Most teams should have the ability to cobble a 4th line out of AHL players and prospects. Ours was objectively awful this year and nothing was really done to fix it.

My thoughts exactly. We have no idea because our coach dumps into default mode if everybody is healthy. Most teams should have the ability to cobble a 4th line out of AHL players and prospects. Ours was objectively awful this year and nothing was really done to fix it.
- madmike71

I’m just not super confident from the small sample that Poulin would have been a sustainable solution in the long run. The 4th line looked better with him as 4C through two-ish games but that was him on BCE and he didn’t really do much of anything. Decent chance that he would have dropped to sub-replacement level as his adrenaline settled down. Or he would have gradually improved as he got developmental reps in. We don’t know because he didn’t get much of an evaluation period. I agree that was a miss

Ha... I get your brand and all, but c'mon. Do you watch the games? There's not one statistic that backs up your claims. He's objectively awful. Regular stats, advanced stats, eye test. He's cooked. Nothing wrong with a very good player being cooked, but a coach should treat him as such.

This is from a column on DKs site after the TO game. This is the player I'm watching. What are you watching?


Bad enough that Carter's fourth line was stuck on the rink for a 1:50 shift. Worse that Carter still couldn't get off after an icing. Worse still that he'd get cleaned by Pontus Holmberg on the draw. And then ... I mean, box the guy out, the way the rookie Jack St. Ivany does just a few feet away. Or front the guy to try to play the pass. But don't just do nothing.

I'd long ago given up on Carter producing points, and I'll even tolerate to a tiny extent his participation on the second power-play unit. But when he's also the team's worst possession forward by a metric mile -- when he's been on the ice at five-on-five through this 6-0-3 streak, the Penguins have a pathetic 30.63% of all shot attempts -- and he's registered zero takeaways and a whopping two blocked shots defensively ... one wouldn't think he'd be logging shift totals of 24, 23, 25, 22 and 17, as he has over the past five games.

It's nuts. He was out there, it seemed, every time I looked up from the laptop the other night. In the third period. Needing a goal to tie over much of that time.
- madmike71

nuff said. Got anything else? I would put Carter on Crosby’s line looking for a goal late. Dudes just got the stuff to score that big goal when you need it.

I just watched all of Detroits goals from last night. Crosby’s line sucks at Defense. Oddly enough despite Carters line spending some time in the d zone they were not scored on.

I just watched all of Detroits goals from last night. Crosby’s line sucks at Defense. Oddly enough despite Carters line spending some time in the d zone they were not scored on.
- Grinder47

Glad you were able to reconfirm your priors, man.

Ha... I get your brand and all, but c'mon. Do you watch the games? There's not one statistic that backs up your claims. He's objectively awful. Regular stats, advanced stats, eye test. He's cooked. Nothing wrong with a very good player being cooked, but a coach should treat him as such.

This is from a column on DKs site after the TO game. This is the player I'm watching. What are you watching?


Bad enough that Carter's fourth line was stuck on the rink for a 1:50 shift. Worse that Carter still couldn't get off after an icing. Worse still that he'd get cleaned by Pontus Holmberg on the draw. And then ... I mean, box the guy out, the way the rookie Jack St. Ivany does just a few feet away. Or front the guy to try to play the pass. But don't just do nothing.

I'd long ago given up on Carter producing points, and I'll even tolerate to a tiny extent his participation on the second power-play unit. But when he's also the team's worst possession forward by a metric mile -- when he's been on the ice at five-on-five through this 6-0-3 streak, the Penguins have a pathetic 30.63% of all shot attempts -- and he's registered zero takeaways and a whopping two blocked shots defensively ... one wouldn't think he'd be logging shift totals of 24, 23, 25, 22 and 17, as he has over the past five games.

It's nuts. He was out there, it seemed, every time I looked up from the laptop the other night. In the third period. Needing a goal to tie over much of that time.
- madmike71

Carter is like a shut down corner in the NFL. He doesn't have the stats because teams are too scared to attack in his direction.

(Disappointed Grinder's response wasn't something like this.)

Carter is like a shut down corner in the NFL. He doesn't have the stats because teams are too scared to attack in his direction.

(Disappointed Grinder's response wasn't something like this.)
- Tojo.

Haha. Football is for fat lazy people. I don’t watch that poop.