If the Leafs get bounced round 1 Keefe will be gone.
- LordHumungous

this is true

I'm still not sold that he's unmovable. He has 1 year left - he can choose to stay and play it out - he was given that option in his contract . . but he could also get an 8 year extension negotiated in the offseason as a part of a sign & trade to a destination of his choosing and it's possible that team would want him. If we express that he just isn't coming back and we won't be offering him a contract, maybe he'll want to choose to move to his new destination.

Granted maybe a new coaching staff can establish a system and mentality that gets this team to play less passive perimeter hockey.
- Monkeypunk

Of course it's possible, just highly unlikely.

A new coach would help this team, but I don't think Marner is ever going to be the gritty, puck battling, going to the hard places player that we need. Willy has shown he's capable of it, and I fully expect him to further develop this part of his game. But that isn't Marner, he's a Kessel. Hell of a player, but not the type of player I want making the kind of money he'll command.

I'm still not sold that he's unmovable. He has 1 year left - he can choose to stay and play it out - he was given that option in his contract . . but he could also get an 8 year extension negotiated in the offseason as a part of a sign & trade to a destination of his choosing and it's possible that team would want him. If we express that he just isn't coming back and we won't be offering him a contract, maybe he'll want to choose to move to his new destination.

Granted maybe a new coaching staff can establish a system and mentality that gets this team to play less passive perimeter hockey.
- Monkeypunk

I don't understand why any player would agree to this - why force your new team to give up assets to get you?

Better to play for your existing team for the remainder of your contract, then sign as a UFA.

was doug gilmour any good at coaching?
- TheMussel

In short - not really.

From Wikipedia (aka in long):

Gilmour was named head coach of the Kingston Frontenacs on November 17, 2008, taking over a rebuilding club that had a 5–13–5 record under Larry Mavety, who had coached Gilmour with the Belleville Bulls when the Bulls were still in the OPJHL. Gilmour finished out the season with Kingston with a 13–27–5 record in their last 45 games and the team failed to make the playoffs.
In his first full season with the club in 2009–10, Gilmour helped guide the team back into the OHL playoffs, as Kingston recorded a 33–30–5 record, earning 71 points, good enough for second place in the OHL's East Division, and fourth place in the OHL's Eastern Conference. The Frontenacs faced the Brampton Battalion in the first round of the playoffs, which Brampton won in seven games. After the season, Gilmour signed to a five-year contract extension with the Frontenacs.[66]
In 2010–11, the Frontenacs slipped under the .500 level during the regular season, going 29–30–9, earning 67 points, but still made the playoffs. In their first round match up against the Oshawa Generals, Kingston struggled and the Generals eliminated them in five games. At the conclusion of the season, Gilmour left the Frontenacs' head coaching position to become the team's general manager, replacing good friend Larry Mavety, who became an advisor to the club. Former Maple Leafs teammate Todd Gill was selected to replace Gilmour behind the Frontenacs bench.
As general manager of the Frontenacs, Gilmour began to rebuild the club, as the club struggled to a 19–41–8 record during the 2011–12 season, finishing in last place in the Eastern Conference, well out of a playoff spot. Kingston saw some improvement during the 2012–13 season, as the team finished with a 27–35–6 record, earning 60 points, good for seventh place in the conference, and a playoff spot. The Frontenacs were swept in the first round against the Barrie Colts. The Frontenacs improved once again in the 2013–14 season, earning a record of 39–23–6, getting 84 points, and third place in the Eastern Conference. Kingston met the Peterborough Petes in the first round of the playoffs, and the team took a 3–0 lead in the best-of-seven series. The Petes made a comeback, winning the final four games of the series, to eliminate the Frontenacs.
He stepped down as general manager and became the president of the Frontenacs in 2017. In 2019, he left the team to become a community representative for the Maple Leafs

If the Leafs get bounced round 1 Keefe will be gone.
- LordHumungous

Five years is a pretty long tenure as a head coach these days.

I think he's done a good job.

But there won't be significant changes to the roster due to NMCs.

You've got a new GM who wants to put his own stamp on the team.

It may or may not be fair, but Keefe is gone if the Bruins bounce the Leafs.

I don't understand why any player would agree to this - why force your new team to give up assets to get you?

Better to play for your existing team for the remainder of your contract, then sign as a UFA.
- Atomic Wedgie

Isn't that literally the purpose of a sign and trade?!? The new team gets him next year, plus the additional 8th year that they can't sign him for in exchange for assets.

In short - not really.

From Wikipedia (aka in long):

Gilmour was named head coach of the Kingston Frontenacs on November 17, 2008, taking over a rebuilding club that had a 5–13–5 record under Larry Mavety, who had coached Gilmour with the Belleville Bulls when the Bulls were still in the OPJHL. Gilmour finished out the season with Kingston with a 13–27–5 record in their last 45 games and the team failed to make the playoffs.
In his first full season with the club in 2009–10, Gilmour helped guide the team back into the OHL playoffs, as Kingston recorded a 33–30–5 record, earning 71 points, good enough for second place in the OHL's East Division, and fourth place in the OHL's Eastern Conference. The Frontenacs faced the Brampton Battalion in the first round of the playoffs, which Brampton won in seven games. After the season, Gilmour signed to a five-year contract extension with the Frontenacs.
- Cush29[66]
In 2010–11, the Frontenacs slipped under the .500 level during the regular season, going 29–30–9, earning 67 points, but still made the playoffs. In their first round match up against the Oshawa Generals, Kingston struggled and the Generals eliminated them in five games. At the conclusion of the season, Gilmour left the Frontenacs' head coaching position to become the team's general manager, replacing good friend Larry Mavety, who became an advisor to the club. Former Maple Leafs teammate Todd Gill was selected to replace Gilmour behind the Frontenacs bench.
As general manager of the Frontenacs, Gilmour began to rebuild the club, as the club struggled to a 19–41–8 record during the 2011–12 season, finishing in last place in the Eastern Conference, well out of a playoff spot. Kingston saw some improvement during the 2012–13 season, as the team finished with a 27–35–6 record, earning 60 points, good for seventh place in the conference, and a playoff spot. The Frontenacs were swept in the first round against the Barrie Colts. The Frontenacs improved once again in the 2013–14 season, earning a record of 39–23–6, getting 84 points, and third place in the Eastern Conference. Kingston met the Peterborough Petes in the first round of the playoffs, and the team took a 3–0 lead in the best-of-seven series. The Petes made a comeback, winning the final four games of the series, to eliminate the Frontenacs.
He stepped down as general manager and became the president of the Frontenacs in 2017. In 2019, he left the team to become a community representative for the Maple Leafs

IIRC, there were whispers his heart was not in it.

And it rubbed people the wrong way that he continued to live in Toronto half of the time.

Five years is a pretty long tenure as a head coach these days.

I think he's done a good job.

But there won't be significant changes to the roster due to NMCs.

You've got a new GM who wants to put his own stamp on the team.

It may or may not be fair, but Keefe is gone if the Bruins bounce the Leafs.
- Atomic Wedgie

It is fully fair. A mediocre coach had a good regular season record due to having a ridiculously talented team, but was fully unable to translate that into post season success.

It is fully fair. A mediocre coach had a good regular season record due to having a ridiculously talented team, but was fully unable to translate that into post season success.
- Whipper

*Until this year

Isn't that literally the purpose of a sign and trade?!? The new team gets him next year, plus the additional 8th year that they can't sign him for in exchange for assets.
- Whipper

I think our wires are crossed.

Let's use Marner as an example.

He can agree to a trade this summer to Pittsburgh. To make the deal, Pittsburgh has to send back assets, thus weakening the Penguins (the team Marner will now play for).

Or he can play out next year with the Leafs, then sign with the Penguins (after having better salary negotiation leverage - but yes, not getting that 8th year) and go to a team that is stronger than if he had agreed to the trade.

I don't understand why any player would agree to this - why force your new team to give up assets to get you?

Better to play for your existing team for the remainder of your contract, then sign as a UFA.
- Atomic Wedgie

If they get an extra year and a little less cap hit and team would be interested.
We've seen sign and trades before.

I think our wires are crossed.

Let's use Marner as an example.

He can agree to a trade this summer to Pittsburgh. To make the deal, Pittsburgh has to send back assets, thus weakening the Penguins (the team Marner will now play for).

Or he can play out next year with the Leafs, then sign with the Penguins (after having better salary negotiation leverage - but yes, not getting that 8th year) and go to a team that is stronger than if he had agreed to the trade.
- Atomic Wedgie

They could move pics and prospects.....doesnt weaken current team.
And (frank) Pittsburgh

I don't understand why any player would agree to this - why force your new team to give up assets to get you?

Better to play for your existing team for the remainder of your contract, then sign as a UFA.
- Atomic Wedgie

Just tell him that if he wants to stay around he’ll be nothing more than a fourth liner since he isn’t part of the future.

That would make him want to go.

Just tell him that if he wants to stay around he’ll be nothing more than a fourth liner since he isn’t part of the future.

That would make him want to go.
- Dozzer

or stick it to the Leafs by not waiving his NMC and walking away as a UFA next year

If they get an extra year and a little less cap hit and team would be interested.
We've seen sign and trades before.
- Fakepartofme

Have we?

I'm wracking my brain trying to think of an example.

I recall one happening a couple of years ago, but I can't actually think of it, and a quick googling shows up nothing.

I think our wires are crossed.

Let's use Marner as an example.

He can agree to a trade this summer to Pittsburgh. To make the deal, Pittsburgh has to send back assets, thus weakening the Penguins (the team Marner will now play for).

Or he can play out next year with the Leafs, then sign with the Penguins (after having better salary negotiation leverage - but yes, not getting that 8th year) and go to a team that is stronger than if he had agreed to the trade.
- Atomic Wedgie

I don't think you're getting some massive haul for Marner in this situation. Pittsburgh would know this is kind of a salary dump/team shakeup, but they are also getting a good asset. I would think a lot of players would want out of a situation if they know they aren't part of the long term plans of the team. I'm not sure though, I'm not a GM. This is all speculation.

In this situation, Dubas is getting Marner for two extra years VS signing him as a UFA, what that works out to in compensation is the $13M question.

or stick it to the Leafs by not waiving his NMC and walking away as a UFA next year
- Symba007

After a fourth line season.

Good luck getting a decent contract when his stats end up as next to nothing.

Not saying it would happen, but if the leafs were desperate they could do it

Just tell him that if he wants to stay around he’ll be nothing more than a fourth liner since he isn’t part of the future.

That would make him want to go.
- Dozzer

Let's be realistic here.

Putting Marner on the 4th line next year - when we are most certainly NOT in a rebuilding year - would last for exactly one regular season loss.

The media and fans would go franking berserk.

This would never, ever happen.

They could move pics and prospects.....doesnt weaken current team.
And (frank) Pittsburgh
- Fakepartofme

What kind of pics?

After a fourth line season.

Good luck getting a decent contract when his stats end up as next to nothing.

Not saying it would happen, but if the leafs were desperate they could do it
- Dozzer

they could but would NEVER do that, players on the team would be pissed off, UFA would avoid the team. They have to find a win-win solution here

or stick it to the Leafs by not waiving his NMC and walking away as a UFA next year
- Symba007

That's where GMs earn their money, finding the balance.

After a fourth line season.

Good luck getting a decent contract when his stats end up as next to nothing.

Not saying it would happen, but if the leafs were desperate they could do it
- Dozzer

He's an elite player.

You really think 31 GMs are just going to look at his point totals on Hockeydb and conclude he's now a 40 point player?

Let's be realistic here.

Putting Marner on the 4th line next year - when we are most certainly NOT in a rebuilding year - would last for exactly one regular season loss.

The media and fans would go franking berserk.

This would never, ever happen.
- Atomic Wedgie

As I’ve said. I openly admit it’s unlikely but if Tre was desperate enough it still could happen.

The primary damage is UFAs wouldn’t want to sign here after seeing the leafs do something like that imo.

Summary:
Possible - yup
Expectable - no

they could but would NEVER do that, players on the team would be pissed off, UFA would avoid the team. They have to find a win-win solution here
- Symba007

It's like half of the guys on here don't remember the Lanny McDonald trade.

It haunted the team for two decades.

He's an elite player.

You really think 31 GMs are just going to look at his point totals on Hockeydb and conclude he's now a 40 point player?
- Atomic Wedgie

No but they’ll be wondering why the leafs were so willing to crash his game… their decisions aren’t simply based on stats.

If the leafs did this and I was another GM I would be asking a lot of questions before signing him that’s for damn sure.