They signed Tavares that offseason, that's the trademark move.

The year before they signed Marleau to teach the kids how to be pros. They (frank)ing had to trade a 1st to get rid of Marleau in order to accommodate Tavares. They lost a bunch of draft capital buying and becoming compliant.

Tavares is the day it changed as it changed expectations. Those expectations would probably just have begun a couple of years
ago and the pipeline would likely be full of prospects had management not pivoted.
- golfingsince

I think you’re messing the time line up. Marleau wasn’t there before tavares.

Either way it looks bad now but the goal was to win in the 2-4 years when tavares was signed. Leafs got screwed with Covid and cap not going up. Everyone knew tavares would be over paid the last couple years and now here we are. Trying to make progress with a tough cap situation.

My man…you have been through some absolute poop over the last number of years, I sincerely hope things go well for you. I used to tease you about being a civil engineer, anyone who fails at real engineering becomes a civil engineer LOL, good times.

Anyway, I still hate the Leafs and I’m kind of enjoying the meltdown.
- LeftCoaster

It's fair to hate the Leafs and enjoy the meltdown. I feel the same about the Canucks, althiugh I am cheering for them so far this year.

and I guess Babcock wasn't that?
- dmnted

After BabRichard??

I am tempted to say that they set the wrong tone and sent the wrong message dropping BabRichard. Unfortuantely, it sounds like it really had to be done.

I am from Toronto. Cheer for Leafs when Wings aren’t involved. Entire family Leafs fans. Kids Leafs fans. I don’t poop on leafs on the wings board then come on here and passive aggressively chirp the leafs when they loose to get a rise. That’s not disrespectful to be glaciers but certainly childish.

Yes. I childishly go onto the Canucks thread and chirp because of the amount of you feeders doing the same here…and also I’m sucked in and fascinated at the same time - at the utter obsession you folks have with the Leafs.

Edit: you’ve literally made your avatar a chirp to leafs
- Big23Questions

So did you cheer or swear after the Borchevsky goal?

Powerplays are almost entirely coaching considering the talent the Leafs have.

You can't change the core without blowing the team apart and tanking again.

This is who they got and they need a coach to squeeze the most out of it.
- Rare_Jewel

Again, I don't agree. The players on this powerplay have reached a point of stagnation after failing for so long in the playoffs. There have been multiple coaches. There is a personnel problem on the powerplay. The skillsets and the mix does not work.

So did you cheer or swear after the Borchevsky goal?

- jribout

Oh man I was sad. Dad and brother were going nuts I was sulking!…dad fresh off boat from Belfast so I’d be picking up teeth if I swore inside the house…I did cheer for leafs rest of the way though

Clark was and is my favourite leaf all time by the way…Killer second

I think Marleau signed summer of 2017 and JT summer of 2018

I am from Toronto. Cheer for Leafs when Wings aren’t involved. Entire family Leafs fans. Kids Leafs fans. I don’t poop on leafs on the wings board then come on here and passive aggressively chirp the leafs when they loose to get a rise. That’s not disrespectful to be glaciers but certainly childish.

Yes. I childishly go onto the Canucks thread and chirp because of the amount of you feeders doing the same here…and also I’m sucked in and fascinated at the same time - at the utter obsession you folks have with the Leafs.

Edit: you’ve literally made your avatar a chirp to leafs
- Big23Questions

We actually contribute to the hockey discussion which you're derailing.

You seem to be really obsessed with my avatar and username, considering you're a wings fan.

It just came to me one night and I've felt welcome ever since. I think you're being rather hostile as a visiting fan.

Again, I don't agree. The players on this powerplay have reached a point of stagnation after failing for so long in the playoffs. There have been multiple coaches. There is a personnel problem on the powerplay. The skillsets and the mix does not work.
- fifty__missions

Marner and Reilly cannot shoot. Makes it easier to key on Nylander and AM, and to cave the PP which makes it hard to create space in high scoring areas. Would be nice to have a shooter on D. But need to move some money out to bring in that guy.

I say (frank)it. Put Marner in the Gretzky's old office on the PP

I think Marleau signed summer of 2017 and JT summer of 2018
- jribout

Yup 1 yr together then PM had to be traded to free space for signing AM and MM to their big deals.

I think Marleau signed summer of 2017 and JT summer of 2018
- jribout

correct

We actually contribute to the hockey discussion which you're derailing.

You seem to be really obsessed with my avatar and username, considering you're a wings fan.

It just came to me one night and I've felt welcome ever since. I think you're being rather hostile as a visiting fan.
- golfingsince

A few drinks in eh bud! Good for you!…but that’s my cue to cut this from my end. Cheers young man.

Yup 1 yr together then PM had to be traded to free space for signing AM and MM to their big deals.
- The Law

Do you think Tavares deal had anything to do with the price?

So did you cheer or swear after the Borchevsky goal?

- jribout

I think I have told this story here...

I was driving home from Florida overnight during that game.

We were listening to the radio in Southern Georgia, and suddenly we picked up some skip signal and got the Leafs game... about a minute later, Borschevsky scored. Then the skip ended about a minute after that.

A few drinks in eh bud! Good for you!…but that’s my cue to cut this from my end. Cheers young man.
- Big23Questions

You'll be missed.

Yup 1 yr together then PM had to be traded to free space for signing AM and MM to their big deals.
- The Law

And that is when MM started screwing the Leafs

Marner and Reilly cannot shoot. Makes it easier to key on Nylander and JT. Would be nice to have a shooter on D. But need to move some money out to bring in that guy.
- jribout

Totally! The high forwards cheat east west as a result. That also closes up the high slot…Oilers have Bouchard. They can have 97/29 on/off the wall and have Hyman move net front to high slot for shot passes or rebounds. It’s a much better look

See below. Wings have no business being discussed in a Leafs area man. Go to the Wings area if you want to discuss. Dubas and Shanny stated the direction they were constructing the roster with prior to the signing.

Bold: you seem to be taking this super personal eh.
- Big23Questions

I wasn't referring to the plan for what kind of team they wanted to ice. I am still not sure that was the wrong idea, but it looks like the playoffs did not evolve to become more skill, less physical, so maybe they missed the boat there also.

I was more referring to the handling of drafting and developing players and building a team. That seemed to go right out the window and they started tossing draft picks around like candy.

I think I have told this story here...

I was driving home from Florida overnight during that game.

We were listening to the radio in Southern Georgia, and suddenly we picked up some skip signal and got the Leafs game... about a minute later, Borschevsky scored. Then the skip ended about a minute after that.
- Aetherial

That is awesome. I was in a bar in Sudsbury ON watching on the big screen and threw my half full pitcher of beer that I was drinking out of about 15-20 feet in the air.

I wasn't referring to the plan for what kind of team they wanted to ice. I am still not sure that was the wrong idea, but it looks like the playoffs did not evolve to become more skill, less physical, so maybe they missed the boat there also.

I was more referring to the handling of drafting and developing players and building a team. That seemed to go right out the window and they started tossing draft picks around like candy.
- Aetherial

Yep too much relative success too early and no patience in Leafs nation.

I wasn't referring to the plan for what kind of team they wanted to ice. I am still not sure that was the wrong idea, but it looks like the playoffs did not evolve to become more skill, less physical, so maybe they missed the boat there also.

I was more referring to the handling of drafting and developing players and building a team. That seemed to go right out the window and they started tossing draft picks around like candy.
- Aetherial

Ya when some GMs feels he’s close to having a Cup team they empty the cupboards for a couple runs…sometimes it works sometimes not so much. Then it’s the hope the GM is creative enough to adjust and stay competitive.

And that is when MM started screwing the Leafs

- jribout

Has there ever been a season where Marner isn't primarily on the wing of one of the top goal scorers in the league? Does he help the goal scorer? Yes. Is he the reason he's a great goal scorer? No.

Overpaid.

It's fair to hate the Leafs and enjoy the meltdown. I feel the same about the Canucks, althiugh I am cheering for them so far this year.
- Aetherial

If you’ve known me long enough, I’m kind of a poop disturber and my hatred of Toronto sports teams isn’t even really about the teams themselves. As a product of the sixties and a west coast kid I learned to hate them because all things Toronto were always getting shoved down our throats continually.

It’s different now with multiple tv service providers and the World Wide Web, but it’s hard to change old habits.

I wasn't referring to the plan for what kind of team they wanted to ice. I am still not sure that was the wrong idea, but it looks like the playoffs did not evolve to become more skill, less physical, so maybe they missed the boat there also.

I was more referring to the handling of drafting and developing players and building a team. That seemed to go right out the window and they started tossing draft picks around like candy.
- Aetherial

When I say that the Red Wings fan says I'm trolling.

First - we were talking about summer signings. Nobody has gone back and actually looked at the signings from the summer and pointed out the better move. Maybe in hindsight an Ian Cole is better but who the (frank) was going to suggest that back in July 1. It was all poop and he avoided the deeper poop is the point.

And to your point about Zadorov and Tanev ....Klingberg's contract didn't impact that at all. He was on LTIR and the space was there.

If you're broadening the debate to include Reaves, Bert, Domi ...sure maybe but my point was simply that the UFA blue liners were trash last summer. I'm glad he avoided signing Holl, Graves, Schenn, etc... to multi-yr handcuffing type deals. And then you've Erik Johnson 3.25? Dumba 3.9? ..nobody was making a difference.

I'm not suggesting his moves were good ..to be clear ..I'm saying there was no good moves to be made.

For me ...lets see this summer ...I like his rhetoric about how to build but lets see if he can get it done.
- The Law

Contextually the conversation started with the statement that Treliving hasn't made any bad moves so it was looking at the other guys too. IMO I wouldn't have made most of those moves. Domi I totally would have. Bertuzzi I didn't have that much of a problem with, but I was enamoured with. I can say that given his limited PP opportunities, his 5v5 performance has been in line or better than a number of players paid the same or more - which is good.

As I've said before - Klingberg was an unnecessary move. We absolutely don't need that type of player on the back-end and if they felt they absolutely did need it, keep Gustafsson for 25% of the price. When he went on LTIR and the replaced him with filler, they did get $3.4m in LTIR space - but shortly after Timmins came off the LTIR and so did someone else and I think that ate the remaining space.

My point isn't there wasn't much else he could have done (I would 100% have signed Graves over Klingberg - his struggles this year notwithstanding - even at that term). My point is that if he didn't like what was out there then don't use the money and wait. There will be a use for the money eventually.

Of his moves:

signed as UFA:

Domi 1x$3m
Bertuzzi 1x$5.5m
Klingberg 1x$4.2m
Benoit 1x$775k
Jones 1x$875k
Reaves 3x$1.4m

resigned:

Matthews 4x$13.3m
Kampf 4x$2.4m
Nylander 8x$11.5m
McMann 2x$1.4m
Benoit 3x$1.4m

His trades:

Trade Lafferty to Vancouver for a 5th
Trade a 3rd & 6th to Anaheim (and Carolina) for Lyubushkin with 50% retained
Trade a 3rd & 5th Washington for Edmundson with 50% retained
Trade a 6th to Carolina for Cade Webber
Trade Ovchinnikov & 4th to Minnesota for Connor Dewar


So in truth, nothing Earth shatteringly bad. I still don't know why they would sign Nylander at the peak of his performance - he was never going to make any more than he was at that moment. They could have waited. Kampf is overpaid. Reaves is overpaid. I liked the Domi signing and Benoit was worked out very well. McMann's deal is very fair and I think despite loathing the signing of Jones, he stood up when we needed him to.

But to me there's nothing in that that says I should trust him yet. So, as I said and you had said first - let's see what the does next year.