Again, I don't agree. The players on this powerplay have reached a point of stagnation after failing for so long in the playoffs. There have been multiple coaches. There is a personnel problem on the powerplay. The skillsets and the mix does not work.
- fifty__missions

Matthews is literally the best goal scorer in the NHL. Marner is 5th in total assists over the past 5 years. Nylander just had 40 goals.

You're not getting better than that in terms of talent up front.

You want to add a different guy in front of the net? Sure. No problem. Or a big shot from the blueline? Go ahead.

But the problem isn't those players. It's how they're organized. And that's 90% on the coach.

When I say that the Red Wings fan says I'm trolling.
- golfingsince

You are only in here when Leafs lose.

You never come in and say positive things about Leafs after a win.

You mock the Leafs and their fans in Canucks board.

= Troll

Contextually the conversation started with the statement that Treliving hasn't made any bad moves so it was looking at the other guys too. IMO I wouldn't have made most of those moves. Domi I totally would have. Bertuzzi I didn't have that much of a problem with, but I was enamoured with. I can say that given his limited PP opportunities, his 5v5 performance has been in line or better than a number of players paid the same or more - which is good.

As I've said before - Klingberg was an unnecessary move. We absolutely don't need that type of player on the back-end and if they felt they absolutely did need it, keep Gustafsson for 25% of the price. When he went on LTIR and the replaced him with filler, they did get $3.4m in LTIR space - but shortly after Timmins came off the LTIR and so did someone else and I think that ate the remaining space.

My point isn't there wasn't much else he could have done (I would 100% have signed Graves over Klingberg - his struggles this year notwithstanding - even at that term). My point is that if he didn't like what was out there then don't use the money and wait. There will be a use for the money eventually.

Of his moves:

signed as UFA:

Domi 1x$3m
Bertuzzi 1x$5.5m
Klingberg 1x$4.2m
Benoit 1x$775k
Jones 1x$875k
Reaves 3x$1.4m

resigned:

Matthews 4x$13.3m
Kampf 4x$2.4m
Nylander 8x$11.5m
McMann 2x$1.4m
Benoit 3x$1.4m

His trades:

Trade Lafferty to Vancouver for a 5th
Trade a 3rd & 6th to Anaheim (and Carolina) for Lyubushkin with 50% retained
Trade a 3rd & 5th Washington for Edmundson with 50% retained
Trade a 6th to Carolina for Cade Webber
Trade Ovchinnikov & 4th to Minnesota for Connor Dewar


So in truth, nothing Earth shatteringly bad. I still don't know why they would sign Nylander at the peak of his performance - he was never going to make any more than he was at that moment. They could have waited. Kampf is overpaid. Reaves is overpaid. I liked the Domi signing and Benoit was worked out very well. McMann's deal is very fair and I think despite loathing the signing of Jones, he stood up when we needed him to.

But to me there's nothing in that that says I should trust him yet. So, as I said and you had said first - let's see what the does next year.
- Monkeypunk

For what? Him to become an UFA this summer and go sign elsewhere giving the leafs a whole sweet load of nothing for him?

Trade Lafferty to Vancouver for a 5th
- Monkeypunk

This trade was pure idiocy. Lafferty was exactly the type of player the Leafs needed to keep, not throw away for nothing.

Especially because they just gave away a 1st round pick to get him last year!

Pure Leafy stupidity.

Has there ever been a season where Marner isn't primarily on the wing of one of the top goal scorers in the league? Does he help the goal scorer? Yes. Is he the reason he's a great goal scorer? No.

Overpaid.
- golfingsince

Then some clowns point to the fact JT had his highest scoring season ever 88 (frank)ing pts. He had previously scored 86 and 84 with a bunch of plugs in Isles.

They make it sound like MM was playing with post 30 year old JT not 28 in his prime JT. He had 84 pts the year before with a 20 year old Barzal and others like Josh Bailey

Coincidentally both had their highest scoring seasons playing with JT in his last year on the Isle.

You are only in here when Leafs lose.

You never come in and say positive things about Leafs after a win.

You mock the Leafs and their fans in Canucks board.

= Troll
- Big23Questions

Matthews is literally the best goal scorer in the NHL. Marner is 5th in total assists over the past 5 years. Nylander just had 40 goals.

You're not getting better than that in terms of talent up front.

You want to add a different guy in front of the net? Sure. No problem. Or a big shot from the blueline? Go ahead.

But the problem isn't those players. It's how they're organized. And that's 90% on the coach.
- Rare_Jewel

Kucherov and Point are more dangerous PP guys than Matthews and Nylander. Kucherov is the most deceptive PP player in the league.

Austin's bread and butter is 5v5 goals. Look at his stats. Among the best 5v5 players in the world.

Reading your post I think you're admitting Matthews and Nylander need other players to complement them. That was my whole point from the beginning. This five man unit as is cannot get it done with just a new coach.

For what? Him to become an UFA this summer and go sign elsewhere giving the leafs a whole sweet load of nothing for him?
- Dozzer

Or trade him and get the maximum value for him in a trade you ever will and let the new team have him signed to a pre-negotiated contract.

Do you think Tavares deal had anything to do with the price?
- golfingsince

There's some good articles out there over time about the negotiations.

Marner was rumoured to have asked for ~9M the summer before. Dubas didn't bite. Marner had the huge year and his number became ~10 plus his camp demanded (and Dubas gave) him his rookie bonus (~$5M) that Lou refused him out of on top of that. So his deal ended up being 10.9. The $10M was on par with Eichel and some others at the time. Too much for me ...I would've gone bridge with him.

Matthews was in his own ballpark. His 8 yr ask was going to be close to McDavid ..Dubas wasn't comfortable with that so they went shorter term.

I'm not sure JT's contract really did much. I guess maybe but Panarin, Eichel and other's were already out there as comps.

You are only in here when Leafs lose.

You never come in and say positive things about Leafs after a win.

You mock the Leafs and their fans in Canucks board.

= Troll
- Big23Questions

Not as much as you think.

I can honestly say I really like Nylander, wanted to draft him. I'd actually say I've liked him more than most Leaf fans....from the beginning.

I've also mentioned Matthews is a top 5 player multiple times.

I'd trade for Nylander, Marner not so much. Tavares? Wait a year and see what his game is. Short term deal.

FYI, the only guy on the Wings roster I wouldn't trade for Nylander is Seider.

Matthews is literally the best goal scorer in the NHL. Marner is 5th in total assists over the past 5 years. Nylander just had 40 goals.

You're not getting better than that in terms of talent up front.

You want to add a different guy in front of the net? Sure. No problem. Or a big shot from the blueline? Go ahead.

But the problem isn't those players. It's how they're organized. And that's 90% on the coach.
- Rare_Jewel

Yep we need those 24 pts 11 minute a game players.

I mean his 9 minutes a game in the playoffs with 0 points is also impressive.

That is awesome. I was in a bar in Sudsbury ON watching on the big screen and threw my half full pitcher of beer that I was drinking out of about 15-20 feet in the air.
- jribout

Believe it or not, I have never heard the term Sudsbury before

Matthews is literally the best goal scorer in the NHL. Marner is 5th in total assists over the past 5 years. Nylander just had 40 goals.

You're not getting better than that in terms of talent up front.

You want to add a different guy in front of the net? Sure. No problem. Or a big shot from the blueline? Go ahead.

But the problem isn't those players. It's how they're organized. And that's 90% on the coach.
- Rare_Jewel

You are nuts… not one of the core four is physical so every bloody playoffs when teams check hard it shows brutally.

Marner is also a hissy fitting puck giveaway machine which evens out his talent, just as much bad as there is good. If the leafs keep him at this point they’re idiots and I’ll just wait for a new core to get built.

Kucherov and Point are more dangerous PP guysthan Matthews and Nylander. Kucherov is the most deceptive PP player in the league. Austin's bread and butter is 5v5 goals. Look at his stats. Among the best 5v5 players in the world. I think you're admitting Matthews and Nylander need other players to complement them. That was my whole point. This five man unit cannot get it done with just a new coach.
- fifty__missions

Not when you can give so much space to 2 of them and smother the other 3

Matthews is literally the best goal scorer in the NHL. Marner is 5th in total assists over the past 5 years. Nylander just had 40 goals.

You're not getting better than that in terms of talent up front.

You want to add a different guy in front of the net? Sure. No problem. Or a big shot from the blueline? Go ahead.

But the problem isn't those players. It's how they're organized. And that's 90% on the coach.
- Rare_Jewel

I would rather they try with a new coach. I wanted that to happen before Marner needed a new contract.

Kucherov and Point are more dangerous PP guysthan Matthews and Nylander. Kucherov is the most deceptive PP player in the league. Austin's bread and butter is 5v5 goals. Look at his stats. Among the best 5v5 players in the world. I think you're admitting Matthews and Nylander need other players to complement them. That was my whole point. This five man unit cannot get it done with just a new coach.
- fifty__missions

Yes it can and it will if they hire the right guy.

Yep we need those 24 pts 11 minute a game players.

I mean his 9 minutes a game in the playoffs with 0 points is also impressive.
- jribout

Yes, Reaves is so much more impressive.

Not when you can give so much space to 2 of them and smother the other 3
- jribout

Exactly. Marner and Rielly have zero threat as shooters. It's dead easy to defend their setup.

Yes it can and it will if they hire the right guy.
- Rare_Jewel

🤦‍♂️

When I say that the Red Wings fan says I'm trolling.
- golfingsince

I haven't really felt trolled by anyone this evening, there was one the other night.

Honestly, I think some of us have been here for so long now that the trolling seems to have settled down. I guess it got boring

You are nuts… not one of the core four is physical so every bloody playoffs when teams check hard it shows brutally.

Marner is also a hissy fitting puck giveaway machine which evens out his talent, just as much bad as there is good. If the leafs keep him at this point they’re idiots and I’ll just wait for a new core to get built.
- Dozzer

Tavares is gone when his contract is over. They'd be idiots to let Marner go with Tavares' contract expiring, they'll have plenty of cap space to keep their young star players.

How many more cocaine hangovers does Nylander need to go on before he gets traded?

Tavares is gone when his contract is over. They'd be idiots to let Marner go with Tavares' contract expiring, they'll have plenty of cap space to keep their young star players.

How many more cocaine hangovers does Nylander need to go on before he gets traded?
- Rare_Jewel

What young star players? These guys are not young anymore. Knies is young. The guys you are talking about are in their absolute prime and the team is not close.

Contextually the conversation started with the statement that Treliving hasn't made any bad moves so it was looking at the other guys too. IMO I wouldn't have made most of those moves. Domi I totally would have. Bertuzzi I didn't have that much of a problem with, but I was enamoured with. I can say that given his limited PP opportunities, his 5v5 performance has been in line or better than a number of players paid the same or more - which is good.

As I've said before - Klingberg was an unnecessary move. We absolutely don't need that type of player on the back-end and if they felt they absolutely did need it, keep Gustafsson for 25% of the price. When he went on LTIR and the replaced him with filler, they did get $3.4m in LTIR space - but shortly after Timmins came off the LTIR and so did someone else and I think that ate the remaining space.

My point isn't there wasn't much else he could have done (I would 100% have signed Graves over Klingberg - his struggles this year notwithstanding - even at that term). My point is that if he didn't like what was out there then don't use the money and wait. There will be a use for the money eventually.

Of his moves:

signed as UFA:

Domi 1x$3m
Bertuzzi 1x$5.5m
Klingberg 1x$4.2m
Benoit 1x$775k
Jones 1x$875k
Reaves 3x$1.4m

resigned:

Matthews 4x$13.3m
Kampf 4x$2.4m
Nylander 8x$11.5m
McMann 2x$1.4m
Benoit 3x$1.4m

His trades:

Trade Lafferty to Vancouver for a 5th
Trade a 3rd & 6th to Anaheim (and Carolina) for Lyubushkin with 50% retained
Trade a 3rd & 5th Washington for Edmundson with 50% retained
Trade a 6th to Carolina for Cade Webber
Trade Ovchinnikov & 4th to Minnesota for Connor Dewar


So in truth, nothing Earth shatteringly bad. I still don't know why they would sign Nylander at the peak of his performance - he was never going to make any more than he was at that moment. They could have waited. Kampf is overpaid. Reaves is overpaid. I liked the Domi signing and Benoit was worked out very well. McMann's deal is very fair and I think despite loathing the signing of Jones, he stood up when we needed him to.

But to me there's nothing in that that says I should trust him yet. So, as I said and you had said first - let's see what the does next year.
- Monkeypunk

I can agree with that ...I like his chances this summer with the cap space he saved by not locking into Graves or whomever but that's about it.

Kampf was too much $$, Reaves cost us Lafferty and like you I said at the time signing 88 to (seemingly) max AAV didn't make sense ...wait for summer.

But taking a step back ...I like the short term commitment plan to UFA's last summer.

If you’ve known me long enough, I’m kind of a poop disturber and my hatred of Toronto sports teams isn’t even really about the teams themselves. As a product of the sixties and a west coast kid I learned to hate them because all things Toronto were always getting shoved down our throats continually.

It’s different now with multiple tv service providers and the World Wide Web, but it’s hard to change old habits.
- LeftCoaster

Have to have known you now for at least 10 years Lefty.

The Vancouver/Toronto thing isn't even so much about Toronto being shoved down your throats... it is a cultural thing at this point. The hate out west for Toronto is automatic.

I would rather they try with a new coach. I wanted that to happen before Marner needed a new contract.
- Aetherial

Marner's extension won't be a problem with Tavares coming off the books. But next season is still going to suck unless they can convince him to waive his NTC and open up space that way.

If Tavares wants to stay at home, he can take a 50% pay cut. Or that extra 11 AAV will easily cover the cost of keeping Marner and allow the Leafs to continue to keep guys like Domi and other secondary wingers or defenders.