You know that Shanahan is the President, right? Tree is the GM, and he makes the decisions on personnel.
- gravyface

All of these decisions about the direction going forward, including on ice personnel, are going higher than Shanahan at this point imo. The current product ran back again can no longer be sold. Would they sell out the arena if they ran it back? Sure. However, there would be a significant disengagement and softening of the fanbase in general if they tried that again. Take a look at the temperature of the fanbase right now. They are demanding a different approach. It's about (frank)ing time. They have already wasted too much of the career of the best player this franchise has ever had.

So basically roll it back... at some point, you have to stop banging your head against the wall.

Marner's gone, Keefe's gone, possibly even Tree. Full house clean-out. Let's go.
- gravyface

That would be a big mistake.. you lost in overtime. You dont need to clean house, just make a few meaningful trades.

All of these decisions about the direction going forward, including on ice personnel, are going higher than Shanahan at this point imo. The current product ran back again can no longer be sold. Would they sell out the arena if they ran it back? Sure. However, there would be a significant disengagement and softening of the fanbase in general if they tried that again. Take a look at the temperature of the fanbase right now. They are demanding a different approach. It's about (frank)ing time. They have already wasted too much of the career of the best player this franchise has ever had.
- fifty__missions

I'm with you, but I don't think Shanahan's hiring a new coach. It's likely that Shanny's gone and Tree may be gone as well, depending on who they bring in.

My point is that Shanny doesn't/didn't make coaching decisions; that's the GM's job.

That would be a big mistake.. you lost in overtime. You dont need to clean house, just make a few meaningful trades.
- LFS

Yeah, like Marner. Can't keep running it back with the Core 4 and he's the easiest one to move that makes sense. 8 years is long enough.

Tavares is a career playoff loser but Mitch isn't?

What had Mitch accomplished in the post season?

Their stats are a LOT closer than you suggest.
- Nasty_Duck

Not to mention Tavares has two career OT playoff series winners.

I’m not the biggest Tavares supporter but he’s far from the reason Toronto lost. Yes he’s getting paid more than he’s worth now but we all knew that when he signed his deal. We just hoped there would have been a couple great playoff runs between then and now.

So basically roll it back... at some point, you have to stop banging your head against the wall.

Marner's gone, Keefe's gone, possibly even Tree. Full house clean-out. Let's go.
- gravyface

Most likely, only keefe is gone.
For sure tre wont be fired and concerning marner, unless he wants to go, hes not going.

Tavares missed the playoffs in 6 out of 9 years in Long Island. Won 1 playoff round. In 9 years, Tavares had 11 goals, 22 points in 24 games for the Islanders.

Marner has never missed the playoffs and has led the Leafs in playoff points since his first season. From 2016/2017 to 2023/2024, Marner has 11 goals and 50 points in 57 playoff games. That's more points than Matthews, Nylander and Tavares over that same period of time by the way. Tavares has 24 points in 38 playoff games as a Leaf, clearly way behind Marner in what should have been his prime years.

So Marner never missed the playoffs and has more than twice as many points in 1 less year by the same age of comparison. Won only 1 round is the similarity. But it's not his fault just the same as Matthews isn't to blame for having 23 goals and 48 points in 55 games over the same period of time. Leafs would be just as stupid to trade him because of having only won one round.

The problem with the Leafs is a combination of factors. Playing in a division which almost always produces a team that either wins the Cup or goes to the Cup Finals doesn't help. 4 out of the last 5 Cup Finalists from the East beat the Leafs in the 1st round. It's not an easy division. And the Leafs do not know how to build a balanced team on defense because of the cap space they WASTED on Tavares, not Marner or Matthews.
- Rare_Jewel

JT did not run the NYI so blaming him for the team missing the playoffs is just stupid - same for the age part. That would be like blaming McDavid for Oil mis-management of that team.

Marner has a few more points in a few less games - and that is it. Both players have made it to the second round ONCE with their original team.

Don't recall seeing JT panic when under pressure and flip the puck over the glass for D-zone penalties. But I've seen marner do that multiple times.

Marner can't adjust to the more physical nature of the playoffs.
JT's problem is that he is past his best-before date.

Was it smart for Leafs to bring in JT and let him suck up 11M in cap space? IMO no. But at same time it wasn't smart to give Marner over 10M right after his ELC.

Neither player is going to lead the Leafs to the promised land.

All of these decisions about the direction going forward, including on ice personnel, are going higher than Shanahan at this point imo. The current product ran back again can no longer be sold. Would they sell out the arena if they ran it back? Sure. However, there would be a significant disengagement and softening of the fanbase in general if they tried that again. Take a look at the temperature of the fanbase right now. They are demanding a different approach. It's about (frank)ing time. They have already wasted too much of the career of the best player this franchise has ever had.
- fifty__missions

Ya but in a months time the temperature of the fan base will be different and come September it will definitely be different. So who cares what the fan base feels now.
Also, best reg season player.

Fire Shanahan
Fire Keefe
Let Treliving try and dig out from Dubas’ mistakes
Part ways with Samsonov
Do what you can to trade Marner. You’re going to lose any trade involving him but hopefully you can get a decent piece or two back and some useable cap space
Re-sign both Bertuzzi and Domi. Them with Matthews becomes the new #1 line
Upgrade both the goaltending and defense - hopefully through the afforementioned Marner trade
Prepare to work on centre depth. Maybe re-sign Tavares at a 3m per year deal to play 3C. There will be a hole up the middle on the 2nd line
Do whatever is needed to change the culture around this team. I’m sure there is a dressing room problem. Address it.

I was staying away from this poop show until the Leafs forced game 7 and someone mentioned me and a few other posters and said ‘where are you now?’
My response was ‘dont get sucked in’.

I’m a Leafs fan through and through but I have been through this since I started seriously watching the team in about 1990. It’s been the same result the last several years because of the same core. When the chips are down they fade. THey get the ‘deer in the headlights’ look…

Prime example was the winning goal. After the goal I immediately said “how could Pasta beat everyone to that puck? He must have been offside…”. They werent showing any replays of a good angle so I just went to bed. Not surprised to see the real reason now. Marner and Rielly both beat to the puck. How the hell does that happen in a game 7 OT 2 minutes in?

I would focus on these changes for next year:

Fire Shanahan and his guys including Keefe. Hire someone who knows the hell what they are doing…

Get the best goalie you can. No more bargain hunting. Get a proven goalie. Woll can be the back up for now. He still needs to prove he can stay healthy…

Trade Marner. Use that cap space to balance the line up…

Other than that get rid of Lilly, Rielly, Brodie on the back end. I’m torn on Rielly, I believe he was fighting through injury, but he has been here too long and disappoints us more than not. Get someone who can shoot the puck!!

Up front I would try to get Domi and Bert resigned as long as the numbers are reasonable. I would move on from Robertson, don’t see him being a playoff guy…

Other then that I have no idea… enjoy the summer!

JT did not run the NYI so blaming him for the team missing the playoffs is just stupid - same for the age part. That would be like blaming McDavid for Oil mis-management of that team.

Marner has a few more points in a few less games - and that is it. Both players have made it to the second round ONCE.

Don't recall seeing JT panic when under pressure and flip the puck over the glass for D-zone penalties. But I've seen marner do that multiple times.

Marner can't adjust to the more physical nature of the playoffs.
JT's problem is that he is past his best-before date.

Was it smart for Leafs to bring in JT and let him suck up 11M in cap space? IMO no. But at same time it wasn't smart to give Marner over 10M right after his ELC.

Neither player is going to lead the Leafs to the promised land.
- Nasty_Duck

JT has been to the 2nd round twice I believe. He won a game 7 for the Isles in OT against FLA and then last year.

I'm with you, but I don't think Shanahan's hiring a new coach. It's likely that Shanny's gone and Tree may be gone as well, depending on who they bring in.

My point is that Shanny doesn't/didn't make coaching decisions; that's the GM's job.
- gravyface

As tre mentioned, shanny did inform him when he got hired that he did like keefe, so maybe there was some sway to keep him.
Either way, i doubt tre is fired at all. Even if Shanahan is let go. Tre gets to use is get out of jail free card first.

Most likely, only keefe is gone.
For sure tre wont be fired and concerning marner, unless he wants to go, hes not going.
- Fakepartofme

Marner got a big payday for accomplishing not much at all. he hasnt delivered on his part imo.

one time showing up in a huge game when his team needs him...would have been nice.

time to allocate his money to other spots in the lineup. too many big contracts hasnt worked. they gave it a long enough look.

they need to make over the D.. time to figure out how to get an actual #1

Fire Shanahan
Fire Keefe
Let Treliving try and dig out from Dubas’ mistakes
Part ways with Samsonov
Do what you can to trade Marner. You’re going to lose any trade involving him but hopefully you can get a decent piece or two back and some useable cap space
Re-sign both Bertuzzi and Domi. Them with Matthews becomes the new #1 line
Upgrade both the goaltending and defense - hopefully through the afforementioned Marner trade
Prepare to work on centre depth. Maybe re-sign Tavares at a 3m per year deal to play 3C. There will be a hole up the middle on the 2nd line
Do whatever is needed to change the culture around this team. I’m sure there is a dressing room problem. Address it.
- Kinger34

Bert wasnt too impressive in the playoffs.
Imo.

Marner got a big payday for accomplishing not much at all. he hasnt delivered on his part imo.

one time showing up in a huge game when his team needs him...would have been nice.

time to allocate his money to other spots in the lineup. too many big contracts hasnt worked. they gave it a long enough look.

they need to make over the D.. time to figure out how to get an actual #1
- senstroll

I dont disagree.
(Marner and Matthews got big paydays for accomplishing not much at all....but thats on dubas)
But marner may

It is time the leafs concentrate on building from backend (the D out, for those who dont understand)

The idea of trading Marner is absolutely stupid and so absolutely typical of Leafs fans. The same people who are absolutely convinced the Leafs, as constructed, would do well this year are the same people convinced Marner is the problem child.

If one thing is absolutely true it's that when a majority of Leafs fans believe something, they're most likely wrong and the best course of action is to do the complete opposite.

Marner led the Leafs in scoring and playoff scoring for years all while being expected to kill penalties too. But some people just do not understand how this team is built.

Nylander missed 3 games, Matthews basically missed 2.5 games and Marner had an high ankle sprain (the same injury that kept Woll out for months). The team didn't decide to start playing good hockey until they were down 3-1. And the idiot coach didn't realize Woll was the better goalie until game 5.

If there is anybody who needs to go, it's Shanahan, Keefe and Tavares. The board room, the bench and the lockerroom. One bad apple in each area not living up to the required standard.

The special teams sucked (Keefe), the cap management sucks (Shanahan and his puppet GMs) and Tavares has been underperforming for his contract for years. We are in the years of the contract that Leafs fans believed "won't matter because we'll already have won multiple Cups by then". These are the same fans who today scream "trade Marner". Wrong then, wrong today and probably wrong forever.

You do not give up one of your best players, in the prime of their career, and get further ahead. Matthews, Marner and Nylander are not and should not be going anywhere. Period.

The Leafs have nearly 19 million in cap space. Spend 15 million of it on D and a goalie that doesn't get hurt every 3 games with a coach behind the bench that can make better game altering decisions.

When Tavares is off the books next year, you continue to add value on the blueline without making the same mistake again.
- Rare_Jewel

Yeah you don't get to slag fans for thinking the team can win as constructed, and in the same breath go on a moronic rant about why you can't trade one of the focal points of that construction in Marner. Pick a lane.

For the love of god, fire john Schneider and atkins as well

JT has been to the 2nd round twice I believe. He won a game 7 for the Isles in OT against FLA and then last year.
- Kinger34

Yeah - realized that after I posted. Have tweaked my post. Thanks.

Yeah - realized that after I posted. Have tweaked my post. Thanks.
- Nasty_Duck

Really changes the whole perspective of your post too.

I mean.

Not once. TWICE.

TO THE 2ND ROUND!

IN HIS ENTIRE CAREER!

For the love of god, fire john Schneider and atkins as well
- Fakepartofme

They blew a 6-1 lead?

Ouch!

For the love of god, fire john Schneider and atkins as well
- Fakepartofme

ugh.. looking like another annoying season to watch the Jays...leaf it up

Really changes the whole perspective of your post too.

I mean.

Not once. TWICE.

TO THE 2ND ROUND!

IN HIS ENTIRE CAREER!
- Scabeh

But that's TWICE as much as Marner!

(does this change perspective again?)

But that's TWICE as much as Marner!

(does this change perspective again?)
- Nasty_Duck

Yes!

But also, no!

Everything is coming up leafs.

https://twitter.com/GMill...ujRbf3yyVkkkGgZHTnNg&s=19

They blew a 6-1 lead?

Ouch!
- Nasty_Duck

Had to leave manoah in...the guy is a (frank)ing idiot