Reviving this discussion on Snow saying it was ownership that blocked trading JT



Remember at the time of the JT saga, Snow was a essentually a lame duck. Ownership already knew by that time that not only was Snow a goner but Lou was coming aboard as the GM. I would bet Malkin may have felt that Lou could persuade JT to stay.
Additionally, I think folks are miscalculating the influence ownership has on signings and trades. A franchise player almost NEVER gets moved without ownership sign off. Yet potential moves often get squashed by them

This was the article with Snow, which was never disputed by Malkin and company

https://nypost.com/2023/0...rve-islanders-fans-scorn/
- keaner17

Show also took Okposo to July 1st and he eventually walked for nothing in return. There’s a pattern of bad asset management from Snow. It’s probably why 5 years later he’s not been snatched up by any other organization

Show also took Okposo to July 1st and he eventually walked for nothing in return. There’s a pattern of bad asset management from Snow. It’s probably why 5 years later he’s not been snatched up by any other organization
- kindlyrick

Nobody is saying Snow was a great or even good GM.
Personally I think everyone in the organization was under the impression that keeping JT was a legit possibility. Apparently even Lou thought so when he arrived. I do think JT purposely kept his options open to the last minute.
Now, is it on the GM to move a player like that if they feel they cannot resign him? Sure. But as I said, if people don't think that new ownership, navigating a new stadium deal might want to make every last effort to sign their franchise guy, you're fooling yourself. Snow never said whether he himself was willing to deal JT but only that ownership wouldn't even consider it. I don't find that hard to believe, especially since I think Snow was in his fish or cut bait season that had already gone up in flames by January.
This certainly would not have been the first time ownership prohibited an NHL gm from making a trade

Dubas did the same thing with his “I can’t see myself managing for any other organization”, only to sign with the Pens a week later. Seeing the pattern by both of them, it’s reasonable to assume those two colluded before July 1st 2018.
- kindlyrick

Do you think the Russians were involved as well?

Do you think the Russians were involved as well?
- Cptmjl

Hahahaha

Nobody is saying Snow was a great or even good GM.
Personally I think everyone in the organization was under the impression that keeping JT was a legit possibility. Apparently even Lou thought so when he arrived. I do think JT purposely kept his options open to the last minute.
Now, is it on the GM to move a player like that if they feel they cannot resign him? Sure. But as I said, if people don't think that new ownership, navigating a new stadium deal might want to make every last effort to sign their franchise guy, you're fooling yourself. Snow never said whether he himself was willing to deal JT but only that ownership wouldn't even consider it. I don't find that hard to believe, especially since I think Snow was in his fish or cut bait season that had already gone up in flames by January.
This certainly would not have been the first time ownership prohibited an NHL gm from making a trade
- keaner17

I think we can all assume JT knew where he was going. I think he went through the motions and played the game but in the end he wound up where he knew where he was going to begin with. To me it was obvious window dressing. When he said he didn’t want the team that signed him to have to give up assets for me it was the icing on the cake.

I think he did the Islanders a disservice after we drafted him and pretty much gave him the keys to the castle. He refused it which is fine but the clandestine BS leading up to him signing with the Leafs is where the real issue with the whole situation lies.

Why anyone has a hard time understanding why Islander fans rag on him is beyond me. It certainly wasn’t as cut and dry as some make it out to be.

Nobody is saying Snow was a great or even good GM.
Personally I think everyone in the organization was under the impression that keeping JT was a legit possibility. Apparently even Lou thought so when he arrived. I do think JT purposely kept his options open to the last minute.
Now, is it on the GM to move a player like that if they feel they cannot resign him? Sure. But as I said, if people don't think that new ownership, navigating a new stadium deal might want to make every last effort to sign their franchise guy, you're fooling yourself. Snow never said whether he himself was willing to deal JT but only that ownership wouldn't even consider it. I don't find that hard to believe, especially since I think Snow was in his fish or cut bait season that had already gone up in flames by January.
This certainly would not have been the first time ownership prohibited an NHL gm from making a trade
- keaner17

Yeah you make total sense. As I mentioned, snow let first rounder Okposo walk for zero return, to then continue playing 8 seasons. When asked about trading for Vanek for 2 months, after giving up a first rounder for a rental snow said he’d make that move again. I just have a hard time understanding the rationale for a lot of these moves.
The leafs are facing a similar situation with Shanahan entering year 10 with one playoff round win.

I think we can all assume JT knew where he was going. I think he went through the motions and played the game but in the end he wound up where he knew where he was going to begin with. To me it was obvious window dressing. When he said he didn’t want the team that signed him to have to give up assets for me it was the icing on the cake.

I think he did the Islanders a disservice after we drafted him and pretty much gave him the keys to the castle. He refused it which is fine but the clandestine BS leading up to him signing with the Leafs is where the real issue with the whole situation lies.

Why anyone has a hard time understanding why Islander fans rag on him is beyond me. It certainly wasn’t as cut and dry as some make it out to be.
- Cptmjl

I don’t believe any other first overall has done that. So there’s that.

I think we can all assume JT knew where he was going. I think he went through the motions and played the game but in the end he wound up where he knew where he was going to begin with. To me it was obvious window dressing. When he said he didn’t want the team that signed him to have to give up assets for me it was the icing on the cake.

I think he did the Islanders a disservice after we drafted him and pretty much gave him the keys to the castle. He refused it which is fine but the clandestine BS leading up to him signing with the Leafs is where the real issue with the whole situation lies.

Why anyone has a hard time understanding why Islander fans rag on him is beyond me. It certainly wasn’t as cut and dry as some make it out to be.
- Cptmjl

I think he definitely had it in his mind that if things worked out with Toronto and the money was right, he was going. Naturally the biggest issue was that he misled Isles fans and likely the organization with his comments. Also, not being traded for assets certainly takes the pressure off him.
There were also reports that he was very upset with Snow's firing, since they were supposedly close.
I imagine that ownership felt the addition of a legend like Lou would show JT that they were committed to success and things were changing. Obviousky it didn't work

I don’t believe any other first overall has done that. So there’s that.
- kindlyrick

If the guy said, listen Garth I’m not resigning here. I want to go play for my home town team, unload me at the TDL if you want a return” people would’ve been pissed sure but he still would’ve gotten a standing ovation when he came back. That’s not how it went down. Plain and simple the guy made multiple commitments and lied. Period.

Yeah you make total sense. As I mentioned, snow let first rounder Okposo walk for zero return, to then continue playing 8 seasons. When asked about trading for Vanek for 2 months, after giving up a first rounder for a rental snow said he’d make that move again. I just have a hard time understanding the rationale for a lot of these moves.
The leafs are facing a similar situation with Shanahan entering year 10 with one playoff round win.
- kindlyrick

While he definitely botched the whole Vanek thing, he dodged a massive bullet when Vanek turned down the extension. Vanek ended up losing out on $26.9M over the rest of his career. The Isles contract would have paid him $50M over 7 years and he only played 6 more with earnings of $23.1M.

I don’t believe any other first overall has done that. So there’s that.
- kindlyrick

Yeah, none that I remember. LeCavilier did demand a trade in his third year, which Rickey Dudley engineered with Toronto, but ownership stepped in and cancelled it.

I think he definitely had it in his mind that if things worked out with Toronto and the money was right, he was going. Naturally the biggest issue was that he misled Isles fans and likely the organization with his comments. Also, not being traded for assets certainly takes the pressure off him.
There were also reports that he was very upset with Snow's firing, since they were supposedly close.
I imagine that ownership felt the addition of a legend like Lou would show JT that they were committed to success and things were changing. Obviousky it didn't work
- keaner17

It will never not be hilarious to me that the entire world thought the Islanders were on the express train to the NHL's scrap heap and then ended up winning as many playoff series in the year immediately following Tavares' departure as the Leafs have since he got there

I think the only deal that was made was between snow and JT. They both new they were in their out, for different reasons of course. So they both said F the organization. Don't trade me and help out the Islanders. He proved that with his comments about his new team giving up assets. And if you don't think for a moment those 2 clowns showed up for that presser dressed like that on purpose knowing they were on their way out. Lets give another F U to the Islanders . That's what I think. Ha

So the thought is Snow should have traded JT even if his bosses told him not too. Just go and do it anyway?

I wish he did but I think that thought is pretty unrealistic. Snow just going rogue and doing as he pleases no matter what the owners of the team think. Gotcha.

That’s right up there with the owners giving Trotz an extra 4 million because they are nice guys but very, very, bad business men.
- Cptmjl

No, I think the thought is it was Snow's job, as general manager, to manage the roster. No one knows what ownership said or didn't say. And even if they did suggest something to Snow, there's no knowing what was actually said to him (passing comment? Suggestion? an order?), how forcefully he pushed back, if he even pushed back at all, or if he simply said, "Okey dokey! Great idea, boss!"

When Milbury was overruled by Wang, we knew it was probably true because it wasn't just Milbury saying it. Other GM's have recounted their conversations with him about trades they believed were finalized until Milbury told them he had to back out because of ownership. Here, it's just disgruntled ex-employee Snow being the hero of his own story in a single interview. So, until there's more to go on than that, the blame should go to the guy whose job description matches the task.

While he definitely botched the whole Vanek thing, he dodged a massive bullet when Vanek turned down the extension. Vanek ended up losing out on $26.9M over the rest of his career. The Isles contract would have paid him $50M over 7 years and he only played 6 more with earnings of $23.1M.
- eichiefs9

The irony is he dodged that bullet by accident (i.e he “tried” throwing all that money at Vanek) If only they dodged that same bullet with Andrew Ladd. There’s a litany of errors made under the 12 years of Snow. Proofs always in the pudding

I see the leafs in the same predicament….10 years into the shanaplan with one series win.

It will never not be hilarious to me that the entire world thought the Islanders were on the express train to the NHL's scrap heap and then ended up winning as many playoff series in the year immediately following Tavares' departure as the Leafs have since he got there
- eichiefs9

Greatest outcome that no one talks about..

It will never not be hilarious to me that the entire world thought the Islanders were on the express train to the NHL's scrap heap and then ended up winning as many playoff series in the year immediately following Tavares' departure as the Leafs have since he got there
- eichiefs9

Worth posting again

https://twitter.com/chicl...AWVFI1aqho9z3aapx18w&s=19

No, I think the thought is it was Snow's job, as general manager, to manage the roster. No one knows what ownership said or didn't say. And even if they did suggest something to Snow, there's no knowing what was actually said to him (passing comment? Suggestion? an order?), how forcefully he pushed back, if he even pushed back at all, or if he simply said, "Okey dokey! Great idea, boss!"

When Milbury was overruled by Wang, we knew it was probably true because it wasn't just Milbury saying it. Other GM's have recounted their conversations with him about trades they believed were finalized until Milbury told them he had to back out because of ownership. Here, it's just disgruntled ex-employee Snow being the hero of his own story in a single interview. So, until there's more to go on than that, the blame should go to the guy whose job description matches the task .
- UIF

Guilty until proven innocent
I would argue thw other way. Snow has now publically claimed that ownership dismissed talk of trading JT. Unless ownership denies that, there's nothing to dispute what he said other than folks distaste for Snow,

I think the only deal that was made was between snow and JT. They both new they were in their out, for different reasons of course. So they both said F the organization. Don't trade me and help out the Islanders. He proved that with his comments about his new team giving up assets. And if you don't think for a moment those 2 clowns showed up for that presser dressed like that on purpose knowing they were on their way out. Lets give another F U to the Islanders . That's what I think. Ha
- chazpet

I don’t think they conspired to screw the organization. Tavares didn’t know how to break up, and Snow was so incompetent in his 12 year tenor, that no other franchise has offered him a management job. Even Crappy latched on to an assistant position.

Worth posting again

https://twitter.com/chicl...AWVFI1aqho9z3aapx18w&s=19
- keaner17

Guilty until proven innocent
I would argue thw other way. Snow has now publically claimed that ownership dismissed talk of trading JT. Unless ownership denies that, there's nothing to dispute what he said other than folks distaste for Snow,
- keaner17

Sounds a lot like a guy trying to save face to get back into a GM seat to me. But what do I know.

Sounds a lot like a guy trying to save face to get back into a GM seat to me. But what do I know.
- kindlyrick

Maybe but if no one disputes what he says, it starts to carry weight (not Doug)

Worth posting again

https://twitter.com/chicl...AWVFI1aqho9z3aapx18w&s=19
- keaner17

Also this article from that summer that rapidly aged poorly

https://deadspin.com/a-20...am-from-best-t-1829040918

Guilty until proven innocent
I would argue thw other way. Snow has now publically claimed that ownership dismissed talk of trading JT. Unless ownership denies that, there's nothing to dispute what he said other than folks distaste for Snow,
- keaner17

Isn't that like if I said you're really a shape-shifting space alien and now that I put it out there it's entirely up to you to prove me wrong

I don't think ownership should have to dignify Snow's rantings to the New York Post with a response, and in fact I'd hope they have more important things to do. Cripes, he also said he had all these great ideas that Malkin shot down and then all the good ideas Lou did were really his

Isn't that like if I said you're really a shape-shifting space alien and now that I put it out there it's entirely up to you to prove me wrong

I don't think ownership should have to dignify Snow's rantings to the New York Post with a response, and in fact I'd hope they have more important things to do. Cripes, he also said he had all these great ideas that Malkin shot down and then all the good ideas Lou did were really his
- UIF

No, it's not even slightly comparable to that

One I find totally believable, if not plausible whereas the other....well, I haven't shape-shifted in years.

A comment like Snow's puts the weight of one of the most irresponsible handlings in franchise history on the shoulders of ownership. If it's a lie, it's a blatant insult and slander. I would think they might want to dispute that.
Again, no one really knows, but I don't find the concept that ownership may have put the kabosh on JT trade talk that far-fetched