No, it's not even slightly comparable to that

One I find totally believable, if not plausible whereas the other....well, I haven't shape-shifted in years.

A comment like Snow's puts the weight of one of the most irresponsible handlings in franchise history on the shoulders of ownership. If it's a lie, it's a blatant insult and slander. I would think they might want to dispute that.
Again, no one really knows, but I don't find the concept that ownership may have put the kabosh on JT trade talk that far-fetched
- keaner17

It's an accusation that needs to be proven. It's up to the accuser to prove it; not the accused, no matter how plausible or implausible it seems to you or me.

And forgive me if I don't take the word of a guy who further down the same article says: Malkin, Snow said, was more hands-on than Wang

I mean, no one buys that for a second, right? The clearest thing from the article is that Snow had an axe to grind with the person who fired him, as he has nothing good to say about Malkin, who is obviously the villain in the story in Snow's head where he's the brilliant hero.

No, it's not even slightly comparable to that

One I find totally believable, if not plausible whereas the other....well, I haven't shape-shifted in years.

A comment like Snow's puts the weight of one of the most irresponsible handlings in franchise history on the shoulders of ownership. If it's a lie, it's a blatant insult and slander. I would think they might want to dispute that.
Again, no one really knows, but I don't find the concept that ownership may have put the kabosh on JT trade talk that far-fetched
- keaner17

I agree. If it's a lie, then ownership needs to call it out. I can easily see ownership not wanting JT traded in hoping he will sign. Does not excuse Garth's lousy work.

It's an accusation that needs to be proven. It's up to the accuser to prove it; not the accused, no matter how plausible or implausible it seems to you or me.

And forgive me if I don't take the word of a guy who further down the same article says: Malkin, Snow said, was more hands-on than Wang

I mean, no one buys that for a second, right? The clearest thing from the article is that Snow had an axe to grind with the person who fired him, as he has nothing good to say about Malkin, who is obviously the villain in the story in Snow's head where he's the brilliant hero.
- UIF

As I said, I dont think it's beyond reasonable to think that ownership didn't want Garth to trade Tavares. Especially considering the fact they were likely ready to toss him anyway, which could be why they seemed so 'hands on'.

In the public court, if someone makes an accusatory
statement it typically does the accused well to deny, as a failure to deny typically becomes considered an admission of guilt.

As I said, I dont think it's beyond reasonable to think that ownership didn't want Garth to trade Tavares. Especially considering the fact they were likely ready to toss him anyway, which could be why they seemed so 'hands on'
- keaner17

How about all of Lou's good ideas really being Snow's ideas that Malkin nixed? Guess we're giving Snow the benefit of the doubt on that one, too, since he's earned all that grace with us fans by being a brilliant and shrewd GM until that evil Malkin guy showed up.

How about all of Lou's good ideas really being Snow's ideas that Malkin nixed? Guess we're giving Snow the benefit of the doubt on that one, too, since he's earned all that grace with us fans by being a brilliant and shrewd GM until that evil Malkin guy showed up.
- UIF

We have no idea what said good ideas were. They could have been 'buy a new soda machine'.
The basis of all of this is, 'is it reasonable to believe that ownership may have been against a JT trade and prevented/forbid it from happening?

We have no idea what said good ideas were. They could have been 'buy a new soda machine'.
The basis of all of this is, 'is it reasonable to believe that ownership may have been against a JT trade and prevented/forbid it from happening?
- keaner17

Garth being an elite GM:

We have no idea what said good ideas were. They could have been 'buy a new soda machine'.
The basis of all of this is, 'is it reasonable to believe that ownership may have been against a JT trade and prevented/forbid it from happening?
- keaner17

The basis of all this is whether or not the only source for that statement is a reliable narrator. Given the other accusations he makes in the same article, I'd say no. And I'd also say it's not Malkin's solemn responsibility to drop everything and call up the Post to refute meaningless gossip about five-year-old topics.

To me, the entire article reads as classic, "I got fired and it's everyone else's fault but mine" blame shifting. Do I think it's out of the realm of possibility that Malkin specifically told Snow he's never allowed to trade Tavares? No, it's certainly possible. Am I etching that in stone based solely on the word of "all of Lou's good ideas were really mine" Garth Snow? Nope!

The basis of all this is whether or not the only source for that statement is a reliable narrator. Given the other accusations he makes in the same article, I'd say no. And I'd also say it's not Malkin's solemn responsibility to drop everything and call up the Post to refute meaningless gossip about five-year-old topics.

To me, the entire article reads as classic, "I got fired and it's everyone else's fault but mine" blame shifting. Do I think it's out of the realm of possibility that Malkin specifically told Snow he's never allowed to trade Tavares? No, it's certainly possible. Am I etching that in stone based solely on the word of "all of Lou's good ideas were really mine" Garth Snow? Nope!
- UIF

Sure, of course Snow's primary basis was responding to the criticism Tavares gets on how his departure unfolded. As I've said, it's all speculation but some felt it was completely unbelievable that ownership would have told Snow they didn't want to move JT and even possibly blocked it. I think it's quite plausible.
It would be very simple for Malkin to dismiss that

Sure, of course Snow's primary basis was responding to the criticism Tavares gets on how his departure unfolded. As I've said, it's all speculation but some felt it was completely unbelievable that ownership would have told Snow they didn't want to move JT and even possibly blocked it. I think it's quite plausible.
It would be very simple for Malkin to dismiss that
- keaner17

Ownership obviously wanted JT back and included him on the new building announcement. Malkin easily could have told Garth not to move JT.

Sure, of course Snow's primary basis was responding to the criticism Tavares gets on how his departure unfolded. As I've said, it's all speculation but some felt it was completely unbelievable that ownership would have told Snow they didn't want to move JT and even possibly blocked it. I think it's quite plausible.
It would be very simple for Malkin to dismiss that
- keaner17

I mean, if the writer was being even minimally professional, he could have reached out to Malkin to give him the opportunity to comment or decline since he's thrown under the bus about three different times in the article

And, at least for my part, it's not about whether it's "completely unbelievable," it's about not letting Snow weasel out of his responsibilities by pointing the finger at other people and being entirely believed on his say so. If someone else says, "Oh yeah, Snow wasn't even allowed to make a phone call to anyone without Malkin standing over his shoulder telling him what to say," then it's a different story. Until then, the GM gets the blame for personnel F-ups.

And by the way, Snow has plenty of those before Malkin was ever in the picture, so it's also not like it's completely unbelievable that Tavares "gave Snow his word" and Snow took it hook, line, and sinker.

I mean, if the writer was being even minimally professional, he could have reached out to Malkin to give him the opportunity to comment or decline since he's thrown under the bus about three different times in the article

And, at least for my part, it's not about whether it's "completely unbelievable," it's about not letting Snow weasel out of his responsibilities by pointing the finger at other people and being entirely believed on his say so. If someone else says, "Oh yeah, Snow wasn't even allowed to make a phone call to anyone without Malkin standing over his shoulder telling him what to say," then it's a different story. Until then, the GM gets the blame for personnel F-ups.

And by the way, Snow has plenty of those before Malkin was ever in the picture, so it's also not like it's completely unbelievable that Tavares "gave Snow his word" and Snow took it hook, line, and sinker.
- UIF

This site and it's commercial refreshes make this a nightmare, so I'll leave it at this:
I'm not debating about Snow as a GM. The prior responses to me on the last thread were that if ownership were to have determined to not trade JT, it would have only been done based on the advice of Snow. My argument was that I believed management was likely done with Snow by that January and weren't going to let him make franchise-altering decisions any longer. he admitted in the article that ownership no longer had faith in him (with good reason). I think the "Malkin being more controlling than Wang" may have been a reasonable perception if Malkin had already determined 'This Snow guy is a clown".
So given the fact that they had likely their mind up about Snow , were in stadium transition and trying to repair the organization's reputation, I can see them wanting to have done everything possible to keep JT. He was the team's number one asset.
As I said, I think it's very plausible that Malkin and Company felt that perhaps they could convince JT things were turning around with the hiring of a better GM....

*keep in mind, long before Snow made his comments, it was reported that Malkin was negotiating directly with JT's agent until he hired Lou and let him take over the dicsussions. .

This site and it's commercial refreshes make this a nightmare, so I'll leave it at this:
I'm not debating about Snow as a GM. The prior responses to me on the last thread were that if ownership were to have determined to not trade JT, it would have only been done based on the advice of Snow. My argument was that I believed management was likely done with Snow by that January and weren't going to let him make franchise-altering decisions any longer. he admitted in the article that ownership no longer had faith in him (with good reason). I think the "Malkin being more controlling than Wang" may have been a reasonable perception if Malkin had already determined 'This Snow guy is a clown".
So given the fact that they had likely their mind up about Snow , were in stadium transition and trying to repair the organization's reputation, I can see them wanting to have done everything possible to keep JT. He was the team's number one asset.
As I said, I think it's very plausible that Malkin and Company felt that perhaps they could convince JT things were turning around with the hiring of a better GM....

*keep in mind, long before Snow made his comments, it was reported that Malkin was negotiating directly with JT's agent until he hired Lou and let him take over the dicsussions. .
- keaner17

The owners don’t get to their financial status without being shrewd. From afar as a fan not really knowing what happened, based on the public comments it appears that Tavares falsely led the ownership as well. I’m sure, the Garth comments are somewhat accurate, but where it gets dicey is why ownership would put the kabash on a trade. I personally feel that Tavares led the ownership on, much like his public comments which skewed their decision. Bottom line, it wasn’t professional how it all went down, and Garth Snow had a history of asset mismanagement. Either way, going forward, you don’t let anyone test free agency. If a deal isn’t signed to extend by the deadline, you’re out. That was the ONE thing Wang was tough with.

It's an accusation that needs to be proven. It's up to the accuser to prove it; not the accused, no matter how plausible or implausible it seems to you or me.

And forgive me if I don't take the word of a guy who further down the same article says: Malkin, Snow said, was more hands-on than Wang

I mean, no one buys that for a second, right? The clearest thing from the article is that Snow had an axe to grind with the person who fired him, as he has nothing good to say about Malkin, who is obviously the villain in the story in Snow's head where he's the brilliant hero.
- UIF

Five years later and Snow is still scratching his a$$. That’s really all we need to know. The fact that a player was given that kind of control with zero history of success other than fantasy league on the back of the bus is literally like picking one of us to captain the ship. I can’t imagine any other business allowing that kind of failed experiment lasting 12 years. The only thing that makes sense is that Wang was coasting to get that land deal approved and used the losses as a right off. Ultimately he made money on the sale of the team but we the fans had to endure a dozen years of minor league rosters.

The owners don’t get to their financial status without being shrewd. From afar as a fan not really knowing what happened, based on the public comments it appears that Tavares falsely led the ownership as well. I’m sure, the Garth comments are somewhat accurate, but where it gets dicey is why ownership would put the kabash on a trade. I personally feel that Tavares led the ownership on, much like his public comments which skewed their decision. Bottom line, it wasn’t professional how it all went down, and Garth Snow had a history of asset mismanagement. Either way, going forward, you don’t let anyone test free agency. If a deal isn’t signed to extend by the deadline, you’re out. That was the ONE thing Wang was tough with.
- kindlyrick

The GM reports to the owner. The owner has to be smart enough to have the GM move JT if not signed by the deadline. The Angles made the same mistake with Ohtani.

The GM reports to the owner. The owner has to be smart enough to have the GM move JT if not signed by the deadline. The Angles made the same mistake with Ohtani.
- ses111

My point was we don’t know what Tavares said to ownership to have them hault a trade. Based on his public comments, my guess is he grossly misled them with the same “It’s special to finish your career with your draft team” comments which might have moved the needle to take that risk of losing him for nothing. It just doesn’t make sense that ownership would stop a trade unless they were misled. It’s the only thing that makes sense.

Snow throwing ownership under the bus is like when a kid does something wrong and then says “my friends told me to do it” as an excuse.

My point was we don’t know what Tavares said to ownership to have them hault a trade. Based on his public comments, my guess is he grossly misled them with the same “It’s special to finish your career with your draft team” comments which might have moved the needle to take that risk of losing him for nothing. It just doesn’t make sense that ownership would stop a trade unless they were misled. It’s the only thing that makes sense.

Snow throwing ownership under the bus is like when a kid does something wrong and then says “my friends told me to do it” as an excuse.
- kindlyrick

Team should not trust the player and they need to cover themselves. Players can change their mind when they officially become a UFA or they could be lying.

Five years later and Snow is still scratching his a$$. That’s really all we need to know. The fact that a player was given that kind of control with zero history of success other than fantasy league on the back of the bus is literally like picking one of us to captain the ship. I can’t imagine any other business allowing that kind of failed experiment lasting 12 years. The only thing that makes sense is that Wang was coasting to get that land deal approved and used the losses as a right off. Ultimately he made money on the sale of the team but we the fans had to endure a dozen years of minor league rosters.
- kindlyrick

That about sums it up

This site and it's commercial refreshes make this a nightmare, so I'll leave it at this:
I'm not debating about Snow as a GM. The prior responses to me on the last thread were that if ownership were to have determined to not trade JT, it would have only been done based on the advice of Snow. My argument was that I believed management was likely done with Snow by that January and weren't going to let him make franchise-altering decisions any longer. he admitted in the article that ownership no longer had faith in him (with good reason). I think the "Malkin being more controlling than Wang" may have been a reasonable perception if Malkin had already determined 'This Snow guy is a clown".
So given the fact that they had likely their mind up about Snow , were in stadium transition and trying to repair the organization's reputation, I can see them wanting to have done everything possible to keep JT. He was the team's number one asset.
As I said, I think it's very plausible that Malkin and Company felt that perhaps they could convince JT things were turning around with the hiring of a better GM....

*keep in mind, long before Snow made his comments, it was reported that Malkin was negotiating directly with JT's agent until he hired Lou and let him take over the dicsussions. .
- keaner17

Yeah. Are we making pretend that it’s not possible that ownership told snow not to trade jt? Ownership meddles in stuff like this all of the time with multiple teams. Look to the north at Buffalo. Pegula is famous for it. None of us know but I’m having a hard time understanding why it’s so hard for some to believe.

Yeah. Are we making pretend that it’s not possible that ownership told snow not to trade jt? Ownership meddles in stuff like this all of the time with multiple teams. Look to the north at Buffalo. Pegula is famous for it. None of us know but I’m having a hard time understanding why it’s so hard for some to believe.
- Cptmjl

That hard time might come from not reading the actual arguments?

Since we're all getting our final words in I guess I'll have mine. It’s not about whether it’s possible or not. It’s about simply saying, “Well that must have happened exactly as Snow said it did because he said it in an interview five years later!” Especially when he also said a bunch of other nonsense in that same interview.

According to him, he had everything figured out but those darn owners stonewalled him. If that sounds like a plausible narrative to you about Garth friggin’ Snow, then…OK! Personally I’m not going to just to take his word for it that he totally would have traded JT…his centerpiece…if it wasn’t for Malkin. Does that strike you as the kind of bold move that Garth Snow ever made? Maybe Malkin did want to re-sign JT and negotiate with him. But the idea that Snow was the lone voice of sanity and reason pleading for a trade is, well, kind of I’m sure he’d have left No Stone Unturned (tm)!

Also it's definitely believable that he had all these other spectacular ideas in mind, but then Lou got all the credit for them. What terrible luck! Never mind that he had like 690 years as Isles GM to do all this awesome stuff and never did it. If only he had gotten the green light in those last six months, he’d have been drinking Champagne from Lord Stanley’s Cup instead of being unemployed for the last six years.

That hard time might come from not reading the actual arguments?

Since we're all getting our final words in I guess I'll have mine. It’s not about whether it’s possible or not. It’s about simply saying, “Well that must have happened exactly as Snow said it did because he said it in an interview five years later!” Especially when he also said a bunch of other nonsense in that same interview.

According to him, he had everything figured out but those darn owners stonewalled him. If that sounds like a plausible narrative to you about Garth friggin’ Snow, then…OK! Personally I’m not going to just to take his word for it that he totally would have traded JT…his centerpiece…if it wasn’t for Malkin. Does that strike you as the kind of bold move that Garth Snow ever made? Maybe Malkin did want to re-sign JT and negotiate with him. But the idea that Snow was the lone voice of sanity and reason pleading for a trade is, well, kind of I’m sure he’d have left No Stone Unturned (tm)!

Also it's definitely believable that he had all these other spectacular ideas in mind, but then Lou got all the credit for them. What terrible luck! Never mind that he had like 690 years as Isles GM to do all this awesome stuff and never did it. If only he had gotten the green light in those last six months, he’d have been drinking Champagne from Lord Stanley’s Cup instead of being unemployed for the last six years.
- UIF

I just typed out a nice response. The site then refreshed which erased it. You are going to have to trust me on this but with that post you lost this debate.

I just typed out a nice response. The site then refreshed which erased it. You are going to have to trust me on this but with that post you lost this debate.
- Cptmjl

Yeah, I retyped mine twice and gave up. It went from thought out to just a rehash of what I was saying before.
I guess I just don't find any of Snow's claims from that article that outlandish. Naturally there are two sides to every story, but none of it seemed totally unbelievable.

PWHL Toronto has officially chosen Minnesota as its semifinal playoff opponent. Game 1 is Wednesday night at Coca-Cola Coliseum.

What an awesome idea (not the PWHL )
Imagine the first seed having to CHOOSE THEIR first round opponent, then the second choosing from the remaining teams and so on.....
The resentment and motivation of the underdog teams would be awesome!!!!
- keaner17

Sadly I thought this one would have been the better discussion......

Sadly I thought this one would have been the better discussion......
- keaner17

A better discussion is the draft lottery, and how embarrassingly rigged it is.

Sadly I thought this one would have been the better discussion......
- keaner17

It's an interesting idea, but it seems too gimmicky to me. It would be a way to dial up the intensity before the puck ever dropped for game .1

It's an interesting idea, but it seems too gimmicky to me. It would be a way to dial up the intensity before the puck ever dropped for game .1
- JimmyP

It would make the Toronto exits even funnier