That's fine, do you consider Michkov elite? Has York reached his ceiling? How many elite players does a team need take that next step.of team building?
- Trox88

Every indication is Michkov will be elite but I will caveat that he’s a wing. I don’t see York as a #1D but may become a very good 2 or 3. What I liked about how things were setup the next 2 years with the drafts were this year was deeper on high end defensemen so they could maybe get their #1 this summer. #1D take at least 3 years to develop so that would fit with Michkov’s timeline. Then next season the draft is deeper at center so maybe they get their #1 center then. If that happens then all of a sudden they’re in great shape.

Every indication is Michkov will be elite but I will caveat that he’s a wing. I don’t see York as a #1D but may become a very good 2 or 3. What I liked about how things were setup the next 2 years with the drafts were this year was deeper on high end defensemen so they could maybe get their #1 this summer. #1D take at least 3 years to develop so that would fit with Michkov’s timeline. Then next season the draft is deeper at center so maybe they get their #1 center then. If that happens then all of a sudden they’re in great shape.
- Schmojo

I appreciate the discussion and I agree there is much work to be done. A #1 goalie has to be finalized. These next 2 years- 3 candidates get their shot. I'm a little different, I'm not ready to concede York cannot not lead a blueline yet. Totally agree the center position is a mess, and that position in particular I want to find out the plan. The plan is going to be more then just keep drafting center prospects over the next 2 drafts and hope in 3-4 years they have found 2 top 6 centers. They have the bottom 6 center positions covered well.

Yep, completely agree with you. That’s pretty much my frustration, haha.

Part of me believes Briere knows a true rebuild is needed but all of the “collaboration” won’t allow it. The Provorov trade said rebuild, drafting Michkov and being willing to wait for him said rebuild, the Walker trade while in playoff position said rebuild. But then the Seeler signing is puzzling, the Johnson trade is puzzling. And I get it was just a 4th round pick but Brayden Point was a 4th round pick so don’t they need those since they won’t tank?
- Schmojo

Yes sir, agree on all points. I don't buy that Clarkie and crew are calling the shots anymore, but I do think that DB and KJ are trying to stay true to the Flyers franchise by not tanking and trying to figure out a way to sort of rebuild while staying somewhat competitive. I don't follow the attendance figures, but it seems the games are still fairly well-attended. They are not losing money so Comcast will be fine with whatever we do.

Money and perception.

The organization probably wants the "No quit ever" perception and want to use that as PR to to sell their next year "gimmick". Sounds stupid, but I believe their top priority is 100% is what will get people in the seats before all else.

Gritty...Torts....next year?

I find it comical because the city of Philadelphia is not immune to losing. Eagles, Sixers, Phillies have all gone through absolute garbage extended periods, but the Flyers try to bounce back as soon as possible.

Would fans really care if the Flyers sucked really bad, but knew they were gathering assets to have a bright future? I think that would actually sell more tickets. Imagine the Flyers getting a McDavid type player...people would sit on top of each other to get that kind of player here.

But I really believe it's sell, sell, sell then let the universe take care of everything else.
- Glak18

Did the Phillies and Eagles actually ever tank? I don't think they did. They were both victims of bad management, but not tanking on purpose. The Suxas tanked on purpose for sure and what exactly did that get them. They can't get past the second round of the playoffs and lost in the first round this year. Oh, and when the Sixers were tanking no one showed up at their games (they were literally giving tickets away). This tanking thing is by no means a simple way out. Hexy kind of tried to tank and build through the draft. How did that work out?

Every indication is Michkov will be elite but I will caveat that he’s a wing. I don’t see York as a #1D but may become a very good 2 or 3. What I liked about how things were setup the next 2 years with the drafts were this year was deeper on high end defensemen so they could maybe get their #1 this summer. #1D take at least 3 years to develop so that would fit with Michkov’s timeline. Then next season the draft is deeper at center so maybe they get their #1 center then. If that happens then all of a sudden they’re in great shape.
- Schmojo

The Flyers are relatively deep at wing. They need to trade a winger or two to enhance their center position if possible. I would not trade York based on what I saw down the stretch, but would be open to trading Sanheim (doubt anyone wants that contract).

I appreciate the discussion and I agree there is much work to be done. A #1 goalie has to be finalized. These next 2 years- 3 candidates get their shot. I'm a little different, I'm not ready to concede York cannot not lead a blueline yet. Totally agree the center position is a mess, and that position in particular I want to find out the plan. The plan is going to be more then just keep drafting center prospects over the next 2 drafts and hope in 3-4 years they have found 2 top 6 centers. They have the bottom 6 center positions covered well.
- Trox88

As for the goalies, I think they’re in a good spot with Ersson, Kolosov, Zavragin, and Bjarnason. At least 1 of those is likely to become at least a solid starter. And teams have shown in the past you don’t always need an elite goalie to win the cup. Also, while it may not be popular with some people, I’d ensure Hart’s rights are retained. If he’s found not guilty I’d bring him back.

They need to draft the #1C, maybe they can find a higher end #2 through trade at some point when they’re closer to competing. I’m not writing off Frost though, I like elements of his game. I think his issue is he’s likely topping out as a 2C but he’s often getting 1C matchups which make him look worse. That’s really been an issue for a lot of players the last few years. They haven’t had true first line or first pairing players so 2nd liners are playing first line and 2nd pair D are playing first pair. Imagine how differently we’d all view Coburn and Carle if they were the top pair in 2010 rather than being split with Pronger and Timonen.

Yes sir, agree on all points. I don't buy that Clarkie and crew are calling the shots anymore, but I do think that DB and KJ are trying to stay true to the Flyers franchise by not tanking and trying to figure out a way to sort of rebuild while staying somewhat competitive. I don't follow the attendance figures, but it seems the games are still fairly well-attended. They are not losing money so Comcast will be fine with whatever we do.
- Don Nachbaur

My concern though is that’s basically what Hextall did and it didn’t work, it’s a half measure. I’m in favor of a true rebuild and have wanted that since 2013/14. But if they’re not going to do that than go all in like Vegas. Vegas to me feels kinda like the Flyers with Homer as GM. While it didn’t result in a cup it’s the closest they’ve come since ‘87. The main critique I make of Clarke’s tenure as GM was he almost never parted with their 1st rd pick. Sometimes it was the right move but if he was willing to trade their first in 00 maybe they’d have gotten Ray Bourque instead of Colorado. That probably cost them the cup that year.

The Flyers are relatively deep at wing. They need to trade a winger or two to enhance their center position if possible. I would not trade York based on what I saw down the stretch, but would be open to trading Sanheim (doubt anyone wants that contract).
- Phillywhiteout

I wonder about Sanheim though. I really think the 1st they were getting from STL in that rumored bigger deal was for Sanheim not Laughton. If my assumption is right, then I would imagine he’s definitely still worth that much since his play this year was much better than last year.

Did the Phillies and Eagles actually ever tank? I don't think they did. They were both victims of bad management, but not tanking on purpose. The Suxas tanked on purpose for sure and what exactly did that get them. They can't get past the second round of the playoffs and lost in the first round this year. Oh, and when the Sixers were tanking no one showed up at their games (they were literally giving tickets away). This tanking thing is by no means a simple way out. Hexy kind of tried to tank and build through the draft. How did that work out?
- Phillywhiteout

Nobody has done what the Sixers did, haha. But the Phillies did basically tank, Hamels, Utley, Rollins et al were traded away and they sucked for a number of years. It got them Nola, Stott, & Bohm though. There’s also no hard cap in MLB so they’ve been able to go out and just spend more than most. That’s what the Flyers often did pre-cap era. Football isn’t really a tank kinda sport. There really isn’t much long term development in the NFL. Howie did however make multiple trades to move up to from #13 to get Wentz at #2. The right pick or 2 or signing can really turn around a team in a single year. As for the Sixers, while not every pick from the process era was great they did get some good players and they got Embiid. The problem has been the management following Hinkie. They managed assets properly to get Butler but then it’s been gross mismanagement since then. The tank itself positioned the Sixers quite well and put them in a much better spot than they were pre-process era.

Colorado is a great example. They added all of those guys listed after Mackinnon and Makar were drafted. That’s exactly how you do it. You draft the elite players and then add through trades and good signings around them. You can’t do it the opposite way because those other players will have you in the middle of the pack preventing you from getting Mackinnon and Makar.
- Schmojo

The Flyers don't seem to understand that. The Avs rebuild to the point of winning the Cup took a decade. The TB rebuild to the point of winning the Cup took a decade. You can be competitive and in the playoffs building to that point before that but that's what it takes to build a championship team. Flyers keep trying to do it the quick way and it hasn't and it won't work. Some of their fans still think they can do it in less than 5 years. That's who they market to.

http://www.mynhldraft.com...icks/12th-overall/120509/

Expectations need to be tempered.
- MBFlyerfan

2002 Steve Eminger D Kitchener Rangers (OHL) Washington Capitals


Another Flyers defenseman trade that went down horribly. Traded a 1st for Eminger who the Caps were trying to unload. That first became the Caps cornerstone defenseman and team leader still playing today, John Carlson. Eminger, in typical Flyers fashion, played 12 games for the Flyers.

The Flyers don't seem to understand that. The Avs rebuild to the point of winning the Cup took a decade. The TB rebuild to the point of winning the Cup took a decade. You can be competitive and in the playoffs building to that point before that but that's what it takes to build a championship team. Flyers keep trying to do it the quick way and it hasn't and it won't work. Some of their fans still think they can do it in less than 5 years. That's who they market to.
- MJL

I guess you don't know much about marketing? Can you imagine if they came out in public and announced a 10 year rebuild. Yeah, that would go over like a lead balloon. And there are many other examples of teams that didn't do 10 year rebuilds and also many examples of failed long term rebuilds. Thanks!

Wow, Nucks comeback from 4-1 deficit to win last night. Turned it off when the Oil were up 4-1 cause it was getting late and was not expecting to see that score this morning. Same old story with the Oil....defense and goaltending.

I guess you don't know much about marketing? Can you imagine if they came out in public and announced a 10 year rebuild. Yeah, that would go over like a lead balloon. And there are many other examples of teams that didn't do 10 year rebuilds and also many examples of failed long term rebuilds. Thanks!
- Phillywhiteout

If they were competing for the Marketing Cup it would be awesome. Winners every year.

I love how they try hard to explain why each of the teams would make those deals but no explanation of why Mitch would agree to go to those places.

And apparently Scott Laughton and Oliver Bonk gets you Mitch Marner.
- Tomahawk

did jd25o write the article?

If they were competing for the Marketing Cup it would be awesome. Winners every year.
- MBFlyerfan

I just don't think a 10 year rebuild is necessary to be successful. When did the Rags come out and say that they were officially in a rebuild. Did it take them 10 years to be a contender? Many examples of teams that were successful without 10 years of torture. There has to be some luck of course, but this 10 year rebuild crap is just that...CRAP!

I just don't think a 10 year rebuild is necessary to be successful. When did the Rags come out and say that they were officially in a rebuild. Did it take them 10 years to be a contender? Many examples of teams that were successful without 10 years of torture. There has to be some luck of course, but this 10 year rebuild crap is just that...CRAP!
- Phillywhiteout

All the examples stated actually won a cup. The Rags are still waiting.

Should it take 10 years? I don't really know. But what I DO know is that the way the Flyers are going about it, it has already been well over 10 years and they aren't even close. In fact, they are so far away their 10 year timeline hasn't even started yet IMO.

They do everything backwards.

All the examples stated actually won a cup. The Rags are still waiting.

Should it take 10 years? I don't really know. But what I DO know is that the way the Flyers are going about it, it has already been well over 10 years and they aren't even close. In fact, they are so far away their 10 year timeline hasn't even started yet IMO.

They do everything backwards.
- MBFlyerfan

I don't see things as darkly as you do...sorry. Yes, the last 12 years have basically sucked due to mismanagement (the end of Homer's tenure, Hexy and then our favorite buddy Chuckles). I'm hoping that there is light on the horizon...color me silly!

I don't see things as darkly as you do...sorry. Yes, the last 12 years have basically sucked due to mismanagement (the end of Homer's tenure, Hexy and then our favorite buddy Chuckles). I'm hoping that there is light on the horizon...color me silly!
- Phillywhiteout

I will tell you this, I hope I am completely 100% wrong.

I just don't see a path to them getting elite talent on their current plan. They will need incredible luck or multiple high priced FA signings.

As it is now, their entire prospect pool is one potential superstar and a bunch of middle/bottom 6 prospects.

Let's see what happens in the next few drafts, but even with that it's 3-5 years from when they are drafted, to knowing what we have in them.

I guess you don't know much about marketing? Can you imagine if they came out in public and announced a 10 year rebuild. Yeah, that would go over like a lead balloon. And there are many other examples of teams that didn't do 10 year rebuilds and also many examples of failed long term rebuilds. Thanks!
- Phillywhiteout

Nowhere in my post did I suggest that the Flyers should announce or market a 10 year rebuild. I guess you don't know how to read very well. What I'm stating is that is how long it can take. The more the Flyers try to take shortcuts. The longer it is going to take. 14 years and counting. I doubt you can give those examples. Which is why you didn't give examples. Please don't give me Vegas because that is not a repeatable process.

I just don't think a 10 year rebuild is necessary to be successful. When did the Rags come out and say that they were officially in a rebuild. Did it take them 10 years to be a contender? Many examples of teams that were successful without 10 years of torture. There has to be some luck of course, but this 10 year rebuild crap is just that...CRAP!
- Phillywhiteout

Yes, it did. Chris Kreider was drafted in 2009. Shesterkin was drafted in 2014. Mika Zabanejad was acquired in 2016. It's not crap, it's reality. By the way, the Rags still have not won the Stanley Cup.