Yesterday's news from the Beaverton:

https://www.thebeaverton....search-for-new-scapegoat/

'Shanny's' closing quote is gold.

Interesting
will they play out of he Scotiabank facility? most likely to early for that
- dmnted

That was the sticking point last time - MLSE didn't want it in Scotiabank (I'm guessing they make much more money running other things).

One thing is abundantly clear: Toronto needs a 10,000 seat arena (Scotiabank too big for PWHL, Mattamy Arena is waaaaaaaaaaaaay too small, Coca-Cola Arena is waaaaaaaaay too old).

I just don't see anyone building it.

Will the Leafs season-ending presser get more views than some of these second round series games? They should make the Leafs do this at 8pm on Saturday.

Will the Leafs season-ending presser get more views than some of these second round series games? They should make the Leafs do this at 8pm on Saturday.
- The Law

If Joe Bowen does the play-by-play

That was the sticking point last time - MLSE didn't want it in Scotiabank (I'm guessing they make much more money running other things).

One thing is abundantly clear: Toronto needs a 10,000 seat arena (Scotiabank too big for PWHL, Mattamy Arena is waaaaaaaaaaaaay too small, Coca-Cola Arena is waaaaaaaaay too old).

I just don't see anyone building it.
- Atomic Wedgie

CBC says they'll play out of Coca-Cola stadium:

https://www.cbc.ca/sports...-expansion-team-1.7198595

Oh my god, the dressing rooms there are so franking pathetic.

Ooooooh baby

Marner Lilly and Robertson
for
Jenner Jiricek and Johnson
- mr.sir

If you want to be realistic about it, you have to ask yourself - Mitch Marner has to agree to be traded to a destination - no different than Tkachuk, who basically said Florida or FO.

Do we think he wants to go be an obscure no-name in Columbus or Utah? He may not have actually competed for a cup here, but regardless of how they play in the playoffs, it's what NHL players want - and he has been doing since he arrived in the NHL.

What teams/locations would make sense for Marner? He's got an ego, he likes being a star, wants to be recognized as such, is an amazing playmaker, but is somewhat sleight of frame by NHL standards.

So he wants a big city team that's a contender, and the big city team that's a contender needs offense in the form of a PP driver who can perform effectively on the PK. If the big city team has some size on it's O-line, all the better - because they can protect Marner by making room for him - similar to what Chicago did with Kane by putting him with larger players who liked to grind on the walls and muck it up in crowds (like Bickell or Saad or Toews) - not really guys who went around hitting like crazy, but guys who won 1-on-1 battles more often than they lost them.

The Rangers are at cap and already have Panarin.

LA would be a great option, but they'd want to unload PLD as a consequence, and no thank you. The crap they'd have to throw in to make it appetizing would be unappealing to them.

Vegas might be appealing - they could certainly insulate him - but they have about $6m in cap space available (including Lehner's $5m in LTIR space) and 4-5 players to sign. Like it you work in some type of a Theodore-Barbashev deal, but . . .I don't see a fit that makes sense for either team.

Florida has the room, theoretically, although with about $20m available they have about 6 regular forwards and 3 regular D all as UFAs this year, so the fit would be more than tight. As much as they are a contender, I'm not positive it's a big city market.

Dallas could use him, but they can't really afford him - he would give them the same headache we've had - too much money tied up in too few players. Probably say the same about Colorado, but they don't really need him - especially if Landeskog comes back next year.

Carolina, while not a big market, is a good team that has a similar guy in Aho, but they need some offensive dynamics to the team. I still think they need more of a net presence than a distributor.

That's sort of it. You have teams that are up and coming and could make pitches - Chicago, Ottawa, Detroit - certainly the appeal of an original six franchise is there with the Hawks and Wings, but they are both a couple of years away from being a couple of years away, so to speak.

Out of all of that, all I can think is that LA seems like the only viable option.

Some info from the internets, no idea how true/accurate this is..but...umm yeah

birky
@b1rky
If this is true then the obvious choice is to eliminate the Leafs presidency role and fire Shanahan.

- All trades have to get approval from Shanahan *and* the MLSE board
- Shanahan isn't always available to reach
- Leafs have missed out on deals because he's MIA

- KD tried to make a trade last year but couldn't reach Shanahan, so he went to the board on his own.
- KD wanted to be able to make trades/decisions without always having to go through Shanahan

- Leafs had a massive, shake up deal lined up that died because Shanahan could not be reached

- That deal included either Nylander or Marner.
- Keefe would've been fired last summer had KD stayed on as GM.

this is from rachel doerrie on the steph & graph podcast this am

One other snippet is a claim that Shanahan lives in NYC and not Toronto, which I'm a little dubious of. Lots of people in those type of positions maintain multiple residences. Brian Burke split his time between Calgary and Toronto while working for the Flames.

Or is it actually about being able to score more than 2 goals - since so far in round 2 all the teams who are winning are getting 2 or more goals from their forwards?

IMO the reality is it's both but goaltending alone isn't the magic bullet.

If your team can't score 3 you will lose playoff games more often than you win them regardless of how great your goalie plays.

If your goalie gives up soft goals you will lose more often than you win in playoff games more often than not.

I think if you can get 3 or more goals and average goaltending your in a better position than if you get incredible goaltending and 2 (or less as that's what the Leafs have averaged the last 2 series) goals per game.

Just my opinion.
- Cush29

Agreed, but I think our offensive problem mostly originates on the back end. It's weird how few assists our defenders get, when you consider the talent up front.
Some of it is coaching, but lack of skill on the back end is as big a problem as lack of size was prior to last trade deadline.
Talent wise, we have 2x2nd pairing D, 1x3rd pairing, and a bunch of 6-7's. I'm basing this relative to what any of the remaining teams have.
Fact is, we've lost Muzzin, Brody and Gio to a combination of age, wear, and injury, and none of their replacements have been as good. Unless Riley had a nagging injury to explain his lack of speed in the playoffs, you can probably add him to the list of rapidly declining assets.
Our defence has been funded about as well as the Canadian Armed forces.

If you want to be realistic about it, you have to ask yourself - Mitch Marner has to agree to be traded to a destination - no different than Tkachuk, who basically said Florida or FO.

Do we think he wants to go be an obscure no-name in Columbus or Utah? He may not have actually competed for a cup here, but regardless of how they play in the playoffs, it's what NHL players want - and he has been doing since he arrived in the NHL.

What teams/locations would make sense for Marner? He's got an ego, he likes being a star, wants to be recognized as such, is an amazing playmaker, but is somewhat sleight of frame by NHL standards.

So he wants a big city team that's a contender, and the big city team that's a contender needs offense in the form of a PP driver who can perform effectively on the PK. If the big city team has some size on it's O-line, all the better - because they can protect Marner by making room for him - similar to what Chicago did with Kane by putting him with larger players who liked to grind on the walls and muck it up in crowds (like Bickell or Saad or Toews) - not really guys who went around hitting like crazy, but guys who won 1-on-1 battles more often than they lost them.

The Rangers are at cap and already have Panarin.

LA would be a great option, but they'd want to unload PLD as a consequence, and no thank you. The crap they'd have to throw in to make it appetizing would be unappealing to them.

Vegas might be appealing - they could certainly insulate him - but they have about $6m in cap space available (including Lehner's $5m in LTIR space) and 4-5 players to sign. Like it you work in some type of a Theodore-Barbashev deal, but . . .I don't see a fit that makes sense for either team.

Florida has the room, theoretically, although with about $20m available they have about 6 regular forwards and 3 regular D all as UFAs this year, so the fit would be more than tight. As much as they are a contender, I'm not positive it's a big city market.

Dallas could use him, but they can't really afford him - he would give them the same headache we've had - too much money tied up in too few players. Probably say the same about Colorado, but they don't really need him - especially if Landeskog comes back next year.

Carolina, while not a big market, is a good team that has a similar guy in Aho, but they need some offensive dynamics to the team. I still think they need more of a net presence than a distributor.

That's sort of it. You have teams that are up and coming and could make pitches - Chicago, Ottawa, Detroit - certainly the appeal of an original six franchise is there with the Hawks and Wings, but they are both a couple of years away from being a couple of years away, so to speak.

Out of all of that, all I can think is that LA seems like the only viable option.
- Monkeypunk

It's not gonna happen. No chance. No way.

BUT

Just like with Willy when there was a chance he'd become available.

Marner fits the kind of UFA the Habs will hope to sign in a year.

And let's be honest, seeing him turn full heel would be awesome.

Some info from the internets, no idea how true/accurate this is..but...umm yeah
- senstroll

I don’t buy the “couldn’t reach him” thing. It’s possible that disagreements between Dubas and Shanahan created problems but they have cell service in NYC

I don’t buy the “couldn’t reach him” thing. It’s possible that disagreements between Dubas and Shanahan created problems but they have cell service in NYC
- Canada Cup

thats the part you dont buy?

that part seems like the most believable..

Right lines for the Leafs maybe.
- Scabeh

This is a Leafs thread.

Or is it actually about being able to score more than 2 goals - since so far in round 2 all the teams who are winning are getting 2 or more goals from their forwards?

IMO the reality is it's both but goaltending alone isn't the magic bullet.

If your team can't score 3 you will lose playoff games more often than you win them regardless of how great your goalie plays.

If your goalie gives up soft goals you will lose more often than you win in playoff games more often than not.

I think if you can get 3 or more goals and average goaltending your in a better position than if you get incredible goaltending and 2 (or less as that's what the Leafs have averaged the last 2 series) goals per game.

Just my opinion.
- Cush29

That's the two problems right there in a nutshell:

1) In playoff hockey when things get tight and difficult, the Leafs don't have enough forwards willing to do the difficult things to get in places for the chance for success - that does include Matthews, who typically shoots from about 8-10ft further back in the playoffs. Maybe with linemates who can do more to create space for him, it changes, but he has a tendency to take the path of least resistance which doesn't work in the playoffs. I'm not advocating for him here - a 6'3 / 210lb guy should be capable of creating his own space.

2) You're spot on. One weak goal in a tightly contested game is likely going to be the difference. Woll was excellent - him not starting the series, and his injury at the end of game 6 is very likely why we aren't currently down 2-0 to Florida.

This is a Leafs thread.
- Aetherial

Fair enough.

That's the two problems right there in a nutshell:

1) In playoff hockey when things get tight and difficult, the Leafs don't have enough forwards willing to do the difficult things to get in places for the chance for success - that does include Matthews, who typically shoots from about 8-10ft further back in the playoffs. Maybe with linemates who can do more to create space for him, it changes, but he has a tendency to take the path of least resistance which doesn't work in the playoffs. I'm not advocating for him here - a 6'3 / 210lb guy should be capable of creating his own space.

2) You're spot on. One weak goal in a tightly contested game is likely going to be the difference. Woll was excellent - him not starting the series, and his injury at the end of game 6 is very likely why we aren't currently down 2-0 to Florida.
- Monkeypunk

Some info from the internets, no idea how true/accurate this is..but...umm yeah
- senstroll

I’ve said it all along.

Shanny is a smug wiener and has done absolutely nothing right during his time at Pres.

But since ownership is too stupid to fire him, you’re all going to have to suffer the consequences as fans.

I “you’re” and not “we” because I honestly have a hard time calling myself a fan of this team anymore. In no other aspect of my life do I continue to blindly follow anything/anyone once it/they lost my trust.

I remember as a kid my Dad saying, “I used to be like you and followed all the teams and knew all the players, but at some point I grew out of it and stopped caring.” I thought he was nuts. I get it now. Over the Shanny years I’ve slowly lost respect for the organization. They don’t care about the fans. The care about money.

Some info from the internets, no idea how true/accurate this is..but...umm yeah
- senstroll

I'm a skeptic so for me, the "he's unreachable part" makes the entire list a load of poop.

thats the part you dont buy?

that part seems like the most believable..
- senstroll

I didn’t pay attention to the trade parts

It's not gonna happen. No chance. No way.

BUT

Just like with Willy when there was a chance he'd become available.

Marner fits the kind of UFA the Habs will hope to sign in a year. .

And let's be honest, seeing him turn full heel would be awesome.



- Scabeh

Mitch has $12M reasons to agree to a sign and trade on an 8 year deal. That's a LOT of cake. And we know Paul, Bonnie, and Mitch lovvve their cake

Mitch has $12M reasons to agree to a sign and trade on an 8 year deal.
- fifty__missions

He’ll probably get more on the open market.

I think he goes to Vegas.

If you want to be realistic about it, you have to ask yourself - Mitch Marner has to agree to be traded to a destination - no different than Tkachuk, who basically said Florida or FO.

Do we think he wants to go be an obscure no-name in Columbus or Utah? He may not have actually competed for a cup here, but regardless of how they play in the playoffs, it's what NHL players want - and he has been doing since he arrived in the NHL.

What teams/locations would make sense for Marner? He's got an ego, he likes being a star, wants to be recognized as such, is an amazing playmaker, but is somewhat sleight of frame by NHL standards.

So he wants a big city team that's a contender, and the big city team that's a contender needs offense in the form of a PP driver who can perform effectively on the PK. If the big city team has some size on it's O-line, all the better - because they can protect Marner by making room for him - similar to what Chicago did with Kane by putting him with larger players who liked to grind on the walls and muck it up in crowds (like Bickell or Saad or Toews) - not really guys who went around hitting like crazy, but guys who won 1-on-1 battles more often than they lost them.

The Rangers are at cap and already have Panarin.

LA would be a great option, but they'd want to unload PLD as a consequence, and no thank you. The crap they'd have to throw in to make it appetizing would be unappealing to them.

Vegas might be appealing - they could certainly insulate him - but they have about $6m in cap space available (including Lehner's $5m in LTIR space) and 4-5 players to sign. Like it you work in some type of a Theodore-Barbashev deal, but . . .I don't see a fit that makes sense for either team.

Florida has the room, theoretically, although with about $20m available they have about 6 regular forwards and 3 regular D all as UFAs this year, so the fit would be more than tight. As much as they are a contender, I'm not positive it's a big city market.

Dallas could use him, but they can't really afford him - he would give them the same headache we've had - too much money tied up in too few players. Probably say the same about Colorado, but they don't really need him - especially if Landeskog comes back next year.

Carolina, while not a big market, is a good team that has a similar guy in Aho, but they need some offensive dynamics to the team. I still think they need more of a net presence than a distributor.

That's sort of it. You have teams that are up and coming and could make pitches - Chicago, Ottawa, Detroit - certainly the appeal of an original six franchise is there with the Hawks and Wings, but they are both a couple of years away from being a couple of years away, so to speak.

Out of all of that, all I can think is that LA seems like the only viable option.
- Monkeypunk

It is tough to imagine the Leafs being able to move him considering cap and the NTC(?).

Despite the opinions of other teams' fans, he is a top line winger on any team in the league.

That's the two problems right there in a nutshell:

1) In playoff hockey when things get tight and difficult, the Leafs don't have enough forwards willing to do the difficult things to get in places for the chance for success - that does include Matthews, who typically shoots from about 8-10ft further back in the playoffs. Maybe with linemates who can do more to create space for him, it changes, but he has a tendency to take the path of least resistance which doesn't work in the playoffs. I'm not advocating for him here - a 6'3 / 210lb guy should be capable of creating his own space.

2) You're spot on. One weak goal in a tightly contested game is likely going to be the difference. Woll was excellent - him not starting the series, and his injury at the end of game 6 is very likely why we aren't currently down 2-0 to Florida.
- Monkeypunk

True

He’ll probably get more on the open market.

I think he goes to Vegas.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

He doesn't get the 8th year as Ufa.

If you want to be realistic about it, you have to ask yourself - Mitch Marner has to agree to be traded to a destination - no different than Tkachuk, who basically said Florida or FO.

Do we think he wants to go be an obscure no-name in Columbus or Utah? He may not have actually competed for a cup here, but regardless of how they play in the playoffs, it's what NHL players want - and he has been doing since he arrived in the NHL.

What teams/locations would make sense for Marner? He's got an ego, he likes being a star, wants to be recognized as such, is an amazing playmaker, but is somewhat sleight of frame by NHL standards.

So he wants a big city team that's a contender, and the big city team that's a contender needs offense in the form of a PP driver who can perform effectively on the PK. If the big city team has some size on it's O-line, all the better - because they can protect Marner by making room for him - similar to what Chicago did with Kane by putting him with larger players who liked to grind on the walls and muck it up in crowds (like Bickell or Saad or Toews) - not really guys who went around hitting like crazy, but guys who won 1-on-1 battles more often than they lost them.

The Rangers are at cap and already have Panarin.

LA would be a great option, but they'd want to unload PLD as a consequence, and no thank you. The crap they'd have to throw in to make it appetizing would be unappealing to them.

Vegas might be appealing - they could certainly insulate him - but they have about $6m in cap space available (including Lehner's $5m in LTIR space) and 4-5 players to sign. Like it you work in some type of a Theodore-Barbashev deal, but . . .I don't see a fit that makes sense for either team.

Florida has the room, theoretically, although with about $20m available they have about 6 regular forwards and 3 regular D all as UFAs this year, so the fit would be more than tight. As much as they are a contender, I'm not positive it's a big city market.

Dallas could use him, but they can't really afford him - he would give them the same headache we've had - too much money tied up in too few players. Probably say the same about Colorado, but they don't really need him - especially if Landeskog comes back next year.

Carolina, while not a big market, is a good team that has a similar guy in Aho, but they need some offensive dynamics to the team. I still think they need more of a net presence than a distributor.

That's sort of it. You have teams that are up and coming and could make pitches - Chicago, Ottawa, Detroit - certainly the appeal of an original six franchise is there with the Hawks and Wings, but they are both a couple of years away from being a couple of years away, so to speak.

Out of all of that, all I can think is that LA seems like the only viable option.
- Monkeypunk

It’s a dark horse but if money is a big factor, I wouldn’t discount Utah. They have loads of cap room, pick, etc and an owner who is ready to spend and might want to make a splash. Mitch would be “the guy”. He’d have to be ready to play out of the spotlight but maybe SLC could manage another God

Some info from the internets, no idea how true/accurate this is..but...umm yeah
- senstroll

Shanahan being unreachable I could see happening maybe once or twice, but not that often. We know what Dubas wanted - but as I've said repeatedly, most professional organizations have a president position who's purpose is to oversee the strategic direction of the team which includes the finances. One such deal supposedly featured obtaining Erik Karlsson - and I don't think there was retention on the deal. That one Shanahan said "No" to, which frankly I think was the right decision.

The "All trades have to get approval" is complete and utter crap that I do not believe for one second. There's a threshold - like over $x or y years - and it makes sense with Shanahan's job of protecting the strategic and financial interests of the team. You want to trade Josh Leivo or Sam Lafferty or acquire Simon Benoit? That's not going to require approval.

If Dubas could just bypass Shanahan and go directly to the board on his own, like he supposedly did last year, then why did we miss out on deals when Shanahan was unavailable? He already had an avenue to get it done.

Dubas has long been a media darling that a lot of reporters have gone out of their way to advocate for. He's likeable and approachable from that standpoint - but these stories, if Rachel Doerrie is reporting them accurately, don't really add up.