You're ignoring what they've said in the past. Last year - "we believe in this Core" .."we believe in the Process". Change always meant something different.

This year - all 3 of them were emphatic in saying everything is on the table. Add to that they acknowledged they need real change and that they're re-evaluating the process and recognizing "patterns". They can't make any real change (spending more on a goalie or on the blueline) without changing the Core.

They will try to change the Core ....whether they can or not ...TBD.
- The Law

Yes the messaging is different. Of course.

Lets see what the team looks like in October.

Also, just because they said they believe in the core....doesnt mean theyve never looked at trade options in the past.

We're boned.

Marner will veto any move, to prove us wrong and to keep the gang together... he'll follow up with a lackluster injury-riddled season so his trade value is ultra low after another round 1 loss, at which point he'll walk, sign with Vegas, and win a cup.
- gravyface

pfft🤦‍♂️

beside the soakers or some other basement dweller trying to reach the cap floor and/or win the lottery; who’s gonna sign this change room cancer, coach killing creampuff?🤦🏿‍♂️

I don't trust Treliving and goalies. This is his GM history:

Signed Jonas Hiller as a UFA
- GSAx of 4, and then -17.2 in year 2.

Signed Chad Johnson as a UFA, and

Traded for Brian Elliot for a 2nd (Jordan Kyrou) & Conditional 3rd (not exercised)
Elliot posted a GSAx of -2.8; he was outperformed by Chad Johnson (1.7) and not resigned.

Traded for Mike Smith for Chad Johnson, Brandon Hickey and a conditional 3rd (not exercised)
- Smith posted a a GSAx of 12.53 in year 1, and -8.5 in year 2; That magical 3rd round pick just couldn't be traded.

Traded for Eddie Lack and a 7th (Dustin Wolf) for a 6th (not an NHLer)
- Lack sucked with a GSAx of -6.7 - which is impressive because he only played 4 games, and Wolf had a -7.7 this past year, but he could be an NHL goalie. Look. If you can get two poopty goalies for a 6th rounder? You gotta do it.

Signed Cam Talbot
- Talbot was only -.3 in GSAx, which led Talbot to think if I can not succeed here, I can not succeed anywhere! And off he went to the Oilers.

Signed Jacob Markstrom
- The best goalie move Treliving made. Year one was suspect with a GSAx of -12.1, but each year that followed was positive: 15.6, 1.5 and 28.9 this season

Traded for Daniel Vladar for a 3rd
- Vladar has had GSAx of -3.9, -5.3 and -10.8 in successive seasons. I, for one, respect his dedication to ignoring positive results.
- Monkeypunk

So many variables.

It is impressive he was able to get Markstrom to CGY, no FA wants to go to CGY.

All those goalies minus JM are Samsonov goalies. He will get a legit goalie, not some mid level maybe.

Leafs miss the playoffs without Marner.

I’m not even joking.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

Meh, even with marner that could happen.
Other teams are getting better.
They are stuck with AM and Willie....and JT one more year.
Marner isnt worth more than willie.....he will want more (most likely)...so he gets moved.

Unless his playoff success involves beating the Leafs it is completely irrelevant to me.
- Santo_44

Meh, he'd probably score the series winning goal.

Its the leafy way

Meh, he'd probably score the series winning goal.

Its the leafy way
- Fakepartofme

Well if they move him out west then at least that means TOR was in the cup finals

Well if they move him out west then at least that means TOR was in the cup finals
- Santo_44

True. That would be fun ride...until a crushing end. But the furthest the leafs would have gotten in 60 years.
Im hoping hes moved out west no matter what.

Leafs miss the playoffs without Marner.

I’m not even joking.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

maybe with Marner removed and nothing in his place

But what about with Tanev and Pesce instead or Geuntzel and another D instead.*

*these are just examples...

I respect your opinion, but respectfully disagree.

Since when does it matter if Shanny has one year left on his contract? Who gives a (frank)?

Also, Leafs players aren’t entering their prime, they’re in the middle of it, or are about to start leaving it.

I couldn’t care less about scouting or medical staff.

Buzz Aldrin walked on the moon. NASA didn’t put him in charge of the space shuttle program because of it. You can be a great hockey player, and still be bad at management.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

But who do you put in there? Pelley shouldn't be handed the keys. He knows (frank) all about running a hockey team. He knows more about profit and maximizing it. Pelley is the type of guy who cuts training programs and facilities because they are a capital expenditure. You need a hockey mind that is adaptable to both old school hockey, because that's still a product that wins and also new school thinking, because that's how you maximize your results.

If they want to fire Shanahan that's fine - but they should definitely have a guy in place who can properly direct a winning strategic plan forward.

If I use your example - if Buzz Aldrin had been working in the NASA offices and been working closely with engineers after his career as an astronaut had ended, he'd have been hired as an upper executive by SpaceX - because his knowledge would have been there.

I do agree that being good at one thing (a player) doesn't make you good at the other (coach/GM)* - See Gretzky, Wayne. I do think Shanahan proved he has the chops for this stuff by working in the NHL head offices effectively so that's a difference for me. He still hasn't gotten it done, so we know at the very least he is likely poised above the blade of the sword as the next to go.

True. That would be fun ride...until a crushing end. But the furthest the leafs would have gotten in 60 years.
Im hoping hes moved out west no matter what.
- Fakepartofme

The tax free teams out west seem the most likely.

I mean at least judging off his negotiations here.

Vegas, Nashville, Dallas(less likely)

Starting pieces of Theadore, Saros, Harley.

The tax free teams out west seem the most likely.

I mean at least judging off his negotiations here.

Vegas, Nashville, Dallas(less likely)

Starting pieces of Theadore, Saros, Harley.
- Santo_44

Vegas.
Theodore, Hertl for Marner and whatever.
Im dying on this hill even though I know its not realistic or will occur.
It would be great

Vegas.
Theodore, Hertl for Marner and whatever.
Im dying on this hill even though I know its not realistic or will occur.
It would be great
- Fakepartofme

I see Hertl has a NMC...He waived it for VGK I wonder if he won't want to waive it again after settling in Vegas.

Vegas.
Theodore, Hertl for Marner and whatever.
Im dying on this hill even though I know its not realistic or will occur.
It would be great
- Fakepartofme

Would be great, but Marner will be here next year.

Wish they could come up with a way for Tavares to be gone. Good player still but too much cap.

I have been done with Morgan Rielly for a few years now. He was good last year vs. Tampa, but that is the exception rather than the rule.

I see Hertl has a NMC...He waived it for VGK I wonder if he won't want to waive it again after settling in Vegas.
- Santo_44

No one ever gets settled in vegas.

Would be great, but Marner will be here next year.

Wish they could come up with a way for Tavares to be gone. Good player still but too much cap.

I have been done with Morgan Rielly for a few years now. He was good last year vs. Tampa, but that is the exception rather than the rule.
- Aetherial

I don't know man, feels like trading away Rielly might imply years of looking for a guy to replace him.

Would be great, but Marner will be here next year.

Wish they could come up with a way for Tavares to be gone. Good player still but too much cap.

I have been done with Morgan Rielly for a few years now. He was good last year vs. Tampa, but that is the exception rather than the rule.
- Aetherial

Ya, outside of that one series....morgan is pretty meh
But we have no one to replace that type of meh.

No one ever gets settled in vegas.

- Fakepartofme

Ya, outside of that one series....morgan is pretty meh
- Fakepartofme

The Leafs should draft Cole Hutson with their first rounder.

Looks like a guy that could easily be your pp quarterback in a few years.

No one ever gets settled in vegas.

- Fakepartofme

While true...Getting him to waive his NMC twice in 6 months may be a stretch

We will see.

The tax free teams out west seem the most likely.

I mean at least judging off his negotiations here.

Vegas, Nashville, Dallas(less likely)

Starting pieces of Theadore, Saros, Harley.
- Santo_44

Spitballing - If he was down with CalifornIA and would extend with the Ducks.

Leafs looking for a 2C ..Zegras is a troubled assets of sorts. Lots of other parts would need to be involved (probably a handful of good picks from Ducks) but maybe there's something there.

So many variables.

It is impressive he was able to get Markstrom to CGY, no FA wants to go to CGY.

All those goalies minus JM are Samsonov goalies. He will get a legit goalie, not some mid level maybe.
- Santo_44

Your optimism and faith in Treliving is astonishing. It's about as high as it was for Dubas while he was here!

Ribbing aside, this is a list of the best UFA goalies available (the last few names I cherry picked from a list of similarly not NHL goalies just because they were all former Leafs):

Murray
Samsonov
Driedger
Kahkonen
Francouz
Talbot
Lankinen
DeSmith
Comrie
Broissoit
Jones
Stolarz
Rittich
Hutchinson
Dell
Kallgren
Pickard

Anyone they want is going to have to be acquired by trade because that is a garbage list.

Your optimism and faith in Treliving is astonishing. It's about as high as it was for Dubas while he was here!

Ribbing aside, this is a list of the best UFA goalies available (the last few names I cherry picked from a list of similarly not NHL goalies just because they were all former Leafs):

Murray
Samsonov
Driedger
Kahkonen
Francouz
Talbot
Lankinen
DeSmith
Comrie
Broissoit
Jones
Stolarz
Rittich
Hutchinson
Dell
Kallgren
Pickard

Anyone they want is going to have to be acquired by trade because that is a garbage list.
- Monkeypunk

It will be Pickard.
Stanley Cup....engage!

Spitballing - If he was down with CalifornIA and would extend with the Ducks.

Leafs looking for a 2C ..Zegras is a troubled assets of sorts. Lots of other parts would need to be involved (probably a handful of good picks from Ducks) but maybe there's something there.
- The Law

Thought about that too. Not sure if they would want to bring in Zegras, especially after what Tre was saying in the presser.

I don't think he gets traded until his big signing bonus is paid out so this years draft is probably not going to be assets the Leafs will get.

I think they will want a star goalie or top pairing D in return as a main piece.

I just made the connections between tax free western teams and teams that had that to offer.

Saros, Theo, Harley.

Thought about Utah but not sure their owner will want to pay out a 8M signing bonus a month in. Once the draft is over Utah doesn't have much to offer.

JT has been traded!!!!



He's going to Prague!

Your optimism and faith in Treliving is astonishing. It's about as high as it was for Dubas while he was here!

Ribbing aside, this is a list of the best UFA goalies available (the last few names I cherry picked from a list of similarly not NHL goalies just because they were all former Leafs):

Murray
Samsonov
Driedger
Kahkonen
Francouz
Talbot
Lankinen
DeSmith
Comrie
Broissoit
Jones
Stolarz
Rittich
Hutchinson
Dell
Kallgren
Pickard

Anyone they want is going to have to be acquired by trade because that is a garbage list.
- Monkeypunk

Yeah I think it will be Saros or Markstrom.

Ullmark would be hilarious.

I think Murray signs a Jones like deal here as well.