Curious trade. Quality over quantity. You’d think this type of trade would be made if KD saw a player he wanted at 18. Unless this is a prelude to something more?
- paulr

Kyle tried to pull the "we are open to use the #18 pick whichever way it helps the club" line out again.

They saw an opportunity to move up IN THE DRAFT.

That tells me they have their draft list finished and they know there is a drop off around !8-19.

I like everyone in that top 18.

They still have 34, and slot 50 draws up them up the board.

After awhile they won't have enough space for all the prospects in their 50 player limit.
That means 4 nice quality chances on their draft list.

I don't expect any other draft moves unless they get offered a player for #18.

Waiting for the other shoe to drop. I got to believe there is a part two to this trade. There will be another trade trade before the draft involving the #18 overall pick.

You don't move up a few picks without some idea of who is or is not going to be on the board on draft day when it is your time to make a selection.

Kyle tried to pull the "we are open to use the #18 pick whichever way it helps the club" line out again.

They saw an opportunity to move up IN THE DRAFT.

That tells me they have their draft list finished and they know there is a drop off around !8-19.

I like everyone in that top 18.

They still have 34, and slot 50 draws up them up the board.

After awhile they won't have enough space for all the prospects in their 50 player limit.
That means 4 nice quality chances on their draft list.

I don't expect any other draft moves unless they get offered a player for #18.
- wiz1901

There is no way they have any clue what is on the draft board's of the teams with pick's 3 through 20.
You can be sure that a few of the player's that the Hawks have on their draft board in the 3 to 18 slots slide to #20 or later.
I don't like the deal unless it is part of another deal. It has all the earmarks of a Stan type deal trying to prove he is smarter than the 31 other GM's.

There is no way they have any clue what is on the draft board's of the teams with pick's 3 through 20.
You can be sure that a few of the player's that the Hawks have on their draft board in the 3 to 18 slots slide to #20 or later.
I don't like the deal unless it is part of another deal. It has all the earmarks of a Stan type deal trying to prove he is smarter than the 31 other GM's.
- Ztra

I’m with you, I think KD is setting something up. If he’d moved from 20 to 5 or 6 it would be obvious he was positioning himself for a much better pick. Giving up a second to move up marginally in the first and second rounds is curious to say the least. At the moment, to me anyway, it doesn’t make a lot of sense. Darth suggested he may be getting the best picks he can to make a trade.

I’m with you, I think KD is setting something up. If he’d moved from 20 to 5 or 6 it would be obvious he was positioning himself for a much better pick. Giving up a second to move up marginally in the first and second rounds is curious to say the least. At the moment, to me anyway, it doesn’t make a lot of sense. Darth suggested he may be getting the best picks he can to make a trade.
- paulr

Time will tell but maybe they are setting themselves up to trade for an RFA like a Necas or someone similar.

Not sure I follow --- To me, if they got their own top 18 rated, (and then see a distinct drop off after 19 or so) - then it doesn't make any difference if anyone outside their own rated top 18 get drafted, if anything, that's a bonus. There will be someone from their list available at that slot. (Otoh - it would hold true on any other slot prior to #18.

Time will tell but maybe they are setting themselves up to trade for an RFA like a Necas or someone similar.
- HawkintheD

That was Darth’s thought. Or maybe getting two positions higher gives him an opportunity to get who dropped in the rankings, like Moore last draft.

He's been really good for sure, but Lindstrom he is not. This Florida team reminds me so much of the Blackhawks during their hey day they are so in sync as a unit.
- BetweenTheDots

Forsling reminds me of Hammer, without as much physical play. The way he skates, the solid puck handling. They're both calm and solid. I do not see Lindstrom though.

Not sure I follow --- To me, if they got their own top 18 rated, (and then see a distinct drop off after 19 or so) - then it doesn't make any difference if anyone outside their own rated top 18 get drafted, if anything, that's a bonus. There will be someone from their list available at that slot. (Otoh - it would hold true on any other slot prior to #18.
- SC116

The point is one of their top 18 rated players would almost certainly be available at 20 because other teams draft boards would not include the exact 18 players as the Hawks. Either the Islanders or the Hawks are setting up a 2nd move.

The point is one of their top 18 rated players would almost certainly be available at 20 because other teams draft boards would not include the exact 18 players as the Hawks. Either the Islanders or the Hawks are setting up a 2nd move.
- Ztra

That's true but why leave it to chance? Then again maybe an even better player falls into their lap at 18 instead of 20 since Lou and Co are pretty good at drafting.

That was Darth’s thought. Or maybe getting two positions higher gives him an opportunity to get who dropped in the rankings, like Moore last draft.
- paulr

Two thoughts
1 They got Moore without moving up.
2 They tried to move up on draft day.
So you would think this would motivate them to wait until they see how the draft is playing out vis-a-vis their draft board.

Have some faith in KD, he’s done well at the draft since he took over.

2023 - Bedard, Moore, Gajan and Kantserov in the first 2 rounds (plus Lardis in th eardrum)

2022 - Korchinski, Nazar, Rinzel, Ludwinski, and Greene.

Bedard, Korchinski and Nazar have already played in the NHL. The others are still very good prospects. Paying a late 2nd to move up in the 1st and 2nd rounds this year is a price the Hawks can afford.
- DarthKane

I think Hayes is going to turn into a steal as a third round pick as well.

Rota mentioned this earlier, Puckpedia's feature where you can enter proposed draft pick trades to find fair value.

https://puckpedia.com/pickvalue

I ran a couple of scenarios to see where the Hawks could move up further by trading #18.

#18 to #12 (Philadelphia) would require #36. (Hawks have #34)
#18 to #14 (San Jose) would require #48. (Hawks have #50)

To me, there is too much of a coincidence that the new picks obtained yesterday line up closely with the above. I think KD laid the groundwork for a draft day trade yesterday, and that he has discussed these possibilities already with PHI and SJS.

I think he's expecting a forward like Eiserman, Catton, Hage to be there at 12 or 14 and is targeting one of them. He can select two good forwards in the 1st round and then draft some D men in the later rounds.

That's true but why leave it to chance? Then again maybe an even better player falls into their lap at 18 instead of 20 since Lou and Co are pretty good at drafting.
- BetweenTheDots

You could be right. But with a month until draft date I think it is possible players will be rising and falling on draft boards across the NHL. If there is not another move I would have preferred keeping the picks we had. Even weighting the picks by value using the available charts I would rather have 5 picks in the first 61 then 2 in the first 50.

Rota mentioned this earlier, Puckpedia's feature where you can enter proposed draft pick trades to find fair value.

https://puckpedia.com/pickvalue

I ran a couple of scenarios to see where the Hawks could move up further by trading #18.

#18 to #12 (Philadelphia) would require #36. (Hawks have #34)
#18 to #14 (San Jose) would require #48. (Hawks have #50)

To me, there is too much of a coincidence that the new picks obtained yesterday line up closely with the above. I think KD laid the groundwork for a draft day trade yesterday, and that he has discussed these possibilities already with PHI and SJS.

I think he's expecting a forward like Eiserman, Catton, Hage to be there at 12 or 14 and is targeting one of them. He can select two good forwards in the 1st round and then draft some D men in the later rounds.
- boilermaker100

This would make a lot of sense. I imagine KD has gone pretty far down this path talking to other team like Philly or SJ. Let's hope.

Two thoughts
1 They got Moore without moving up.
2 They tried to move up on draft day.
So you would think this would motivate them to wait until they see how the draft is playing out vis-a-vis their draft board.
- Ztra

This type of trade is usually made on draft day. That’s why this trade is so intriguing.

Bamford's column today references a recent Pierre Lebrun Athletic article on this summer's free agents. Lots of RD mentioned if, ahem, someone gets traded.

https://www.bleachernatio...indholm-rhd-options-more/

This would make a lot of sense. I imagine KD has gone pretty far down this path talking to other team like Philly or SJ. Let's hope.
- Ztra

Maybe it was Lou that started the conversation? He needs to restock his farm system. KD might have seen it as the Board said of additional ammo to move up, or to get someone he wants.

But KD might not have another move on mind at this moment, and it is Lou looking at making other moves. Lou is not afraid to make any move at any time, just ask Robbie Ftorek

You could be right. But with a month until draft date I think it is possible players will be rising and falling on draft boards across the NHL. If there is not another move I would have preferred keeping the picks we had. Even weighting the picks by value using the available charts I would rather have 5 picks in the first 61 then 2 in the first 50.
- Ztra

I don't know, it's intriguing for sure. I know when i was looking at the Dobber analysis of drafts over a 10 year span they said anywhere from 49 to 70 NHL hockey players in each draft year. Maybe the Blackhawks feel this is a weak overall draft?

The point is one of their top 18 rated players would almost certainly be available at 20 because other teams draft boards would not include the exact 18 players as the Hawks. Either the Islanders or the Hawks are setting up a 2nd move.
- Ztra

I think you fixated on the 1-18 part- and that becomes less relevant as other teams chose off their own boards (and those being chosen are not on your own)- every one chosen shrinks your own board - so if 4 guys get taken not on your board (which happened last year with Moore) --- then you're picking off of your first 14 options (well technically 12 - seeing as you're taking #2- and #1 is a given).

I don't necessarily think there has to be another move, but if there is, and it involves draft picks 3-17 - the same logic holds true anyways.

You could be right. But with a month until draft date I think it is possible players will be rising and falling on draft boards across the NHL. If there is not another move I would have preferred keeping the picks we had. Even weighting the picks by value using the available charts I would rather have 5 picks in the first 61 then 2 in the first 50.
- Ztra

Well, with the trade they actually now have 4 picks in the top 50.

Maybe it was Lou that started the conversation? He needs to restock his farm system. KD might have seen it as the Board said of additional ammo to move up, or to get someone he wants.

But KD might not have another move on mind at this moment, and it is Lou looking at making other moves. Lou is not afraid to make any move at any time, just ask Robbie Ftorek
- LAHawk

If KD doesn’t have another move planned, giving up a second round pick to move up marginally in the first and second rounds doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, especially considering he has no clue how the draft will unfold. If it were draft day and he wanted to move up to secure a specific prospect giving up a second makes sense. This doesn’t. That’s why I think it’s KD thats up to something and Lou is happy to get an additional second.

https://puckpedia.com/pickvalue

I ran this thru the draft pick value calculator.

Technically KD got hood-winked (barely). He should have got Lou to throw in a 5th rounder to make it even.
- Rota's Rooter

I think that is the big issue with trading up at this point in the NHL.

Many of the GM's are still using antiquated methods and feel rather than the value chart similar to the NFL. And you don't really see fun and crazy poop like this in the NHL. It's a boring league for the most part and KFC wheeling and dealing is at least somewhat entertaining.

Acquired WR DJ Moore, the No. 9 and 61 picks in the 2023 draft, a 2024 first-round pick and a 2025 second-round pick from the Carolina Panthers in exchange for the No. 1 pick in the 2023 draft.

Apparently on paper that breaks down to something like this (from the fellers at Bleacher Nation because I'm not smart enough to figure it out on my own):

Panthers

2023 1.1 (1,500)
Total value: 1,500

Bears

D.J. Moore (300)
2023 1.9 (387)
2023 2.61 (86)
2024 Round 1 (1,000)
2025 Round 2 (180)
Total value: 1,953

And then this article argues that the Bears got modest return since other models derate future picks

https://www.windycitygrid...s-trade-win-for-both-team

Pretty interesting stuff - the maths and all that. It's like any statistical analysis - can't be 100% numbers but the numbers should be instructive and not outrageously off.

Mentioned earlier - Tulsky made up a trade chart as well.

https://www.broadstreetho...ft-pick-value-trading-up/

But I stand by my statement a few weeks ago that most NHL teams don't have the balls to do anything radical with top 10 picks. How fun would it be if Buffalo was like hey San Jose how would you like Owen Power, 11 and our first next year and a second the year after that for no1 overall.

More poop like that would be neat. It's not like Buffalo needs more draft picks right now. They need a no 1 200 ft center. San Jose needs everything so more darts for them plus a good big foundational piece on the blue line that is locked in long term.

But because it's hockey nothing fun like that will happen. Everyone in the top 5 will take their pick because these GM's aren't willing to take risks and would rather languish for 5 years than do something bold. Not like their job security changes a whole bunch. Ken Holland still has a job and by some miracle so does Dubas so pretty sure these guys could swing if they really wanted to and not be immediately fired.

When I heard the trade details I thought compensation for KD was a tad high but like StanBowPops&McD probably over drafting Allen, same with KD and Crew probably overdrafting Rinzel I'm perfectly fine with it...... You see something you want make it happen.

Tells me there is a plan and the youngest GM in the sport is gonna do his best to make it happen. Same as getting Rinzel, moving Dcat for the 7th, Dach for the 14th and trying to move up for Moore.

Also tells me fellow GM's find KD reasonable which is very helpful.
- Mr Ricochet

The difference with Rinzel was that there was a surplus of firsts while Allen was the only first they had that year and it's basically a second.

They had 5 picks in the first 2 rounds - at least one they need to swing on.

I don't entirely understand the, 'to similar' players in Bedard and KAne - not in the sense that, that sort of explanation seems to imply that Kurashev is a defensive wiz.

Nothing against Kurashev, he had a really nice season, but I mean Kane is Kane- and Kane is a lefty shot playing the off-wing - and imagine that he'd do at least as good a job there as Kurashev (yes sure I am intentionally underplaying it - KAne vs Kurashev ? Ore you kidding me? Kane even older- all day long, and that's just a dispassionate analysis.

The other point being -so if that could be done, you'd essentially be saying that Kane is a replacement for Tyler Johnson ... Tyler Johnson??? Well nothing against him, but he's never been Patrick Kane in any way shape or form. I'd do it, if Kane is open to it. Not entirely sure that he is, but he does have the advantage of having 3 rings already ... so I mean -well who knows? Would be pretty cool if it could be made to work.

I imagine that could mean that Jones would be moving on only because ... I dunno -- I figure there was a bit of lack of professional respect for Jones' hockey ability.... or put differently - that video I reference all of the time - where Kane questions where Jones was going ??? I honestly didn't know either .... doubt you can actually use guys in leadership roles doing that - and I guess if Jones was genuinely interested in going to 'a team not in a building phase' - you really try to accommodate that. I didn't entirely mind Jones' play - I mean he had some really awful stretches, no question about it.... but -yeh whatever- use it if you have to ...
- SC116

Wasn't there also a clip of Bedard yelling at him this year too?