That is the point that is so important. Buying out Norris next year will cost 2x the dollar cost (both cap and actual $000) compared to buying him out this month (June 15). The players 26th birthday doubles the buy out cost ratio.

The formula is fairly simple: An NHL team can buy out a player's contract for two-thirds of the remaining amount if the player is 26 or older or for one-third if younger than 26. That figure is spread out over twice the number of years remaining on the contract..
- spatso

Excellent points - this wasn't on my mind.

I think you are strongly selling me to do the buyout. Let's push the Sens to do it.

If they can't trade him, then do this

My feeling is if any player gets bought out it will be Korpisalo.
8 year buyout at $1.33 per season. Makes much more sense then paying Norris for 12 more years on a buyout. And remember ..... billionaires don't like paying out cash every year for something they no longer use. That's not how they became billionaires. You just keep Norris for now and hope he recovers. If not ... LTIR and Robidas Island beckon for free. However, I don't feel a buyout for Korpisalo or Forsberg is in the cards.

As for drafting ... lots of interesting picks but dependent on how picks 2 to 6 fall and exactly who is available. I to am afraid a that all the hype for Tij Iginla is because of who his father is. I for one am a bit tired of this "pedigree" issue .... Boucher and Brown ..... bleh. Just draft the best player available whether its a forward or d-man. But our defensive corps in the minors is really thin on talent these days.


Is it just me ..... or does a Boston trade with Ottawa seem more and more likely ? I could see Ottawa trading Chychrun, Joseph , Boston's 1rst round pick for Ullmark and Brandon Carlo (right d-man). Conditional on extensions for Chychrun and Ullmark.

My feeling is if any player gets bought out it will be Korpisalo.
8 year buyout at $1.33 per season. Makes much more sense then paying Norris for 12 more years on a buyout. And remember ..... billionaires don't like paying out cash every year for something they no longer use. That's not how they became billionaires. You just keep Norris for now and hope he recovers. If not ... LTIR and Robidas Island beckon for free. However, I don't feel a buyout for Korpisalo or Forsberg is in the cards.

As for drafting ... lots of interesting picks but dependent on how picks 2 to 6 fall and exactly who is available. I to am afraid a that all the hype for Tij Iginla is because of who his father is. I for one am a bit tired of this "pedigree" issue .... Boucher and Brown ..... bleh. Just draft the best player available whether its a forward or d-man. But our defensive corps in the minors is really thin on talent these days.


Is it just me ..... or does a Boston trade with Ottawa seem more and more likely ? I could see Ottawa trading Chychrun, Joseph , Boston's 1rst round pick for Ullmark and Brandon Carlo (right d-man). Conditional on extensions for Chychrun and Ullmark.
- OttawaB

Norris wasn't a new guard addition - if you're looking to nip a Dorion mistake in the bud, it makes sense to do the math on a buyout. You speak about 'spending other people's money' as though that wasn't somehow a recurring throughline for this team over the past two decades. We should be thanking the heavens we don't need to endlessly talk about cost saving and scrimping, must say I am unsure why you want to bring that narrative back.

Ownership/front office will look at this pragmatically in relation to opportunity cost, not flat expense. The opportunity cost of *not* buying out Norris this year could be significantly more expensive if he floats along as a non-LTIR contract who plays 50% of the time. If you cut out 8M of your cap space each year, you will have a hurdle to icing a competitive roster. All to say, it is their prerogative to decide what to do, but the math here is worth unpacking and discussing. Wouldn't be surprised if a buyout did happen, it would be Colin White 2.0.

Norris wasn't a new guard addition - if you're looking to nip a Dorion mistake in the bud, it makes sense to do the math on a buyout. You speak about 'spending other people's money' as though that wasn't somehow a recurring throughline for this team over the past two decades. We should be thanking the heavens we don't need to endlessly talk about cost saving and scrimping, must say I am unsure why you want to bring that narrative back.

Ownership/front office will look at this pragmatically in relation to opportunity cost, not flat expense. The opportunity cost of *not* buying out Norris this year could be significantly more expensive if he floats along as a non-LTIR contract who plays 50% of the time. If you cut out 8M of your cap space each year, you will have a hurdle to icing a competitive roster. All to say, it is their prerogative to decide what to do, but the math here is worth unpacking and discussing. Wouldn't be surprised if a buyout did happen, it would be Colin White 2.0.
- Bartacus

A+. Colin White is important to remember. Folks were so distressed of the cost involved in his buyout. By the end of this season it was a non factor.

It will be the same for Norris if they decide to exercise that option.

It is possible that Norris will sign with another team and become a 40 goal scorer. But, I would take the risk of letting him go. I would also cheer for him to be able to resurrect his career wherever he lands.

My issue is that you have all pretty much written off Norris's career already. None of you are doctors who have treated Norris, none of you know where he is on the rehab, none of you know what his doctors say, none of you know what his trainers or team management are thinking. You are all just unilaterally saying it makes financial sense to throw him out of the moving car know. I find that very humorous.
Maybe we should sit back and let all of this unfold first before backing the bus up over his NHL career.

My issue is that you have all pretty much written off Norris's career already. None of you are doctors who have treated Norris, none of you know where he is on the rehab, none of you know what his doctors say, none of you know what his trainers or team management are thinking. You are all just unilaterally saying it makes financial sense to throw him out of the moving car know. I find that very humorous.
Maybe we should sit back and let all of this unfold first before backing the bus up over his NHL career.
- OttawaB

I'm not endorsing the buyout option per se... however it's undeniable that there's a major pivot point in terms of buyout options coming this off-season for the team to consider. I understand your point about seeing what the result of his rehab is, but the whole point of the NHL having a 1/3 buyout rule allowance for <26 year-old players is to help teams mitigate precisely this kind of scenario. Norris' career doesn't even have to be over for the team to seriously question whether $7.9M AAV x 6yrs is appropriate for a player who may never play more than 50GP/season again, or contribute more than ~15G/30Pts of actual production. We're talking about ~10% of the team's cap space, and a higher AAV than any forward on the team not named Tkachuk/Stutzle.

They may not buy him out, but I would sure as hell expect Staios/Poulin to give the idea its full due consideration. You can do an awful lot with ~$6.5M x 6yrs of saved AAV, especially when you're desperately trying to fill major roster gaps and move the team in a new direction.

I'm not endorsing the buyout option per se... however it's undeniable that there's a major pivot point in terms of buyout options coming this off-season for the team to consider. I understand your point about seeing what the result of his rehab is, but the whole point of the NHL having a 1/3 buyout rule allowance for <26 year-old players is to help teams mitigate precisely this kind of scenario. Norris' career doesn't even have to be over for the team to seriously question whether $7.9M AAV x 6yrs is appropriate for a player who may never play more than 50GP/season again, or contribute more than ~15G/30Pts of actual production. We're talking about ~10% of the team's cap space, and a higher AAV than any forward on the team not named Tkachuk/Stutzle.

They may not buy him out, but I would sure as hell expect Staios/Poulin to give the idea its full due consideration. You can do an awful lot with ~$6.5M x 6yrs of saved AAV, especially when you're desperately trying to fill major roster gaps and move the team in a new direction.
- khawk

And that is why I think (if they do a buyout at all), it will be Korpisalo. They either buyout Korpisalo or Forsberg, unless there is some team out there willing to do a trade for one of them. The key to making changes may well be changing a goalie(s) as the primary move. A Norris move is just window dressing. If your goalies can't stop a puck consistantly, making other changes might well be meaningless.

And that is why I think (if they do a buyout at all), it will be Korpisalo. They either buyout Korpisalo or Forsberg, unless there is some team out there willing to do a trade for one of them. The key to making changes may well be changing a goalie(s) as the primary move. A Norris move is just window dressing. If your goalies can't stop a puck consistantly, making other changes might well be meaningless.
- OttawaB

Man.... Josh Norris isn't going to get better. If he does, it's years down the road. Is it worth the risk?

He is a solid #2 center when healthy, and had the potential to even play #1 at times, but this guy has gone through two surgeries. The buyout option wasn't the best situation but if the Sens can get ALL of that cap space (it's essentially 7.5-8M free of cap space the next 5 years) I'd at least strongly consider it. I am leaning towards getting it done but again don't know the medical records like the team does

And that is why I think (if they do a buyout at all), it will be Korpisalo. They either buyout Korpisalo or Forsberg, unless there is some team out there willing to do a trade for one of them. The key to making changes may well be changing a goalie(s) as the primary move. A Norris move is just window dressing. If your goalies can't stop a puck consistantly, making other changes might well be meaningless.
- OttawaB

I'd agree Korpisalo is a bigger wild card and, by proxy of his general healthiness, more of a liability to the team. Because he's 30, his buyout would cost the team 10.666M over 8 years. Compare Norris which would be 13M over 12 years. Considering Norris has 3 additional years of remaining term and his salary is almost double Korpisalo's, you can see just how much that 1/3 vs 2/3 buyout makes a difference to the numbers.

It's totally possible that Korpisalo bounces back with a better performance next year - same could be said for Norris. I don't want to write off the players, but if I am new management, I would consider writing off a contract I didn't sign earlier in my tenure than later. If I am Staios and 7.5M of unavailable cap space from deals I didn't mint factored into me losing my job in 3/4 years, I'd likely be miffed.

Man.... Josh Norris isn't going to get better. If he does, it's years down the road. Is it worth the risk?

He is a solid #2 center when healthy, and had the potential to even play #1 at times, but this guy has gone through two surgeries. The buyout option wasn't the best situation but if the Sens can get ALL of that cap space (it's essentially 7.5-8M free of cap space the next 5 years) I'd at least strongly consider it. I am leaning towards getting it done but again don't know the medical records like the team does
- AlfieisKing

...and they never let that kind of stuff leak, which is why we fans mull over it on the sidelines.

Simply put, if the Sens' medical staff in collaboration with the new front office come to the conclusion that Norris' health is too much of a risk to keep for 7 more years, then this is your *absolute* best time to cut it off. Many players recover from recurrent injury, whereas others endure what Clarke MacArthur had to go through. If you can confirm Norris to be on full LTIR for the season (Matt Murray 2023-2024 styles) you might have more security, but every indication says he still can/wants to play hockey. If Norris plays all seven years but only plays 60% of the games (like he has so far), Sens effectively lose 8M of cap flexibility (like they have had to deal with so far). I'd love to wait and see for another year, but father time chugs ahead and the CBA rules mean it's buy low now or double the cost moving forward. I'm not saying they will do it, or even should do it, but it ought be on the menu of options.

...and they never let that kind of stuff leak, which is why we fans mull over it on the sidelines.

Simply put, if the Sens' medical staff in collaboration with the new front office come to the conclusion that Norris' health is too much of a risk to keep for 7 more years, then this is your *absolute* best time to cut it off. Many players recover from recurrent injury, whereas others endure what Clarke MacArthur had to go through. If you can confirm Norris to be on full LTIR for the season (Matt Murray 2023-2024 styles) you might have more security, but every indication says he still can/wants to play hockey. If Norris plays all seven years but only plays 60% of the games (like he has so far), Sens effectively lose 8M of cap flexibility (like they have had to deal with so far). I'd love to wait and see for another year, but father time chugs ahead and the CBA rules mean it's buy low now or double the cost moving forward. I'm not saying they will do it, or even should do it, but it ought be on the menu of options.
- Bartacus

A+

It would be irresponsible not to consider a Norris buy out.

hmm, EDM will swept in the finals

When is Norris' birthday? In other words, when is the last moment the Sens can make a decision?

During buyout windows? There are a couple?

When is Norris' birthday? In other words, when is the last moment the Sens can make a decision?

During buyout windows? There are a couple?
- GrimmdaGoalie

From puckpedia - Buyouts can start either on June 15 or 48 hours after the Playoffs finish - whichever comes later. The buyout period wraps up on June 30th at 5pm Eastern Standard Time.

IE we would find out the verdict by the end of this month. He turns 26 May 5th, so it'd have to happen this off-season if you want the 1/3.

From puckpedia - Buyouts can start either on June 15 or 48 hours after the Playoffs finish - whichever comes later. The buyout period wraps up on June 30th at 5pm Eastern Standard Time.

IE we would find out the verdict by the end of this month. He turns 26 May 5th, so it'd have to happen this off-season if you want the 1/3.
- Bartacus

Not sure of the wording exactly, but I believe that teams that have players go to arbitration will get a second buy-out window later in the summer.

Well this sucks ....... Per Sportsnet's Elliotte Friedman, the Capitals will officially purchase the website of Capfriendly in July, and after that, the website will go dark and no longer be publicly available for use.

So what to use for basics instead of Capfriendly? .... for free.

Apparently the Washington Capitals have also ended contracts other teams had to use the services of Capfriendly.

Well this sucks ....... Per Sportsnet's Elliotte Friedman, the Capitals will officially purchase the website of Capfriendly in July, and after that, the website will go dark and no longer be publicly available for use.

So what to use for basics instead of Capfriendly? .... for free.

Apparently the Washington Capitals have also ended contracts other teams had to use the services of Capfriendly.
- OttawaB

Caps made a crap ton of enemies...they will regret IMO closing Capfriendly

Well this sucks ....... Per Sportsnet's Elliotte Friedman, the Capitals will officially purchase the website of Capfriendly in July, and after that, the website will go dark and no longer be publicly available for use.

So what to use for basics instead of Capfriendly? .... for free.

Apparently the Washington Capitals have also ended contracts other teams had to use the services of Capfriendly.
- OttawaB

To what end? To remove a resource for other teams? To have the information to themselves? For a competive edge?

Well this sucks ....... Per Sportsnet's Elliotte Friedman, the Capitals will officially purchase the website of Capfriendly in July, and after that, the website will go dark and no longer be publicly available for use.

So what to use for basics instead of Capfriendly? .... for free.

Apparently the Washington Capitals have also ended contracts other teams had to use the services of Capfriendly.
- OttawaB

Aw really? Thanks for this share, I heard about this here. What an incredibly stupid and unpopular thing to do from the Caps. Somebody with tech knowhow will just immediately replicate it, like happened to Capgeek after Matt Wuest passed away. Not overly worried, just... Puzzled? It says the Caps 'stress' the tools will be available through the draft, but the website will go dark in July? The whole point of the website is transparency, and it is super clean and easy to use... why take nice things away from the people who pay for your existence? Seems dumb to me.

Aw really? Thanks for this share, I heard about this here. What an incredibly stupid and unpopular thing to do from the Caps. Somebody with tech knowhow will just immediately replicate it, like happened to Capgeek after Matt Wuest passed away. Not overly worried, just... Puzzled? It says the Caps 'stress' the tools will be available through the draft, but the website will go dark in July? The whole point of the website is transparency, and it is super clean and easy to use... why take nice things away from the people who pay for your existence? Seems dumb to me.
- Bartacus

We're just not allowed to have nice toys.

Well this sucks ....... Per Sportsnet's Elliotte Friedman, the Capitals will officially purchase the website of Capfriendly in July, and after that, the website will go dark and no longer be publicly available for use.

So what to use for basics instead of Capfriendly? .... for free.

Apparently the Washington Capitals have also ended contracts other teams had to use the services of Capfriendly.
- OttawaB

Puckpedia is a decent interim solution... although the Capitals may already own it as well.
https://puckpedia.com/team/ottawa-senators

God only knows why a single NHL team would seriously make the effort to buy CapFriendly and shut it down... especially if they're planning on cutting it off from other NHL teams (i.e. the content would stop being accurate for >95% of the players almost immediately). You can believe some tech-savvy types will make a summer project of replicating the content.

Puckpedia is a decent interim solution... although the Capitals may already own it as well.
https://puckpedia.com/team/ottawa-senators

God only knows why a single NHL team would seriously make the effort to buy CapFriendly and shut it down... especially if they're planning on cutting it off from other NHL teams (i.e. the content would stop being accurate for >95% of the players almost immediately). You can believe some tech-savvy types will make a summer project of replicating the content.
- khawk

My guess is this is the simplest way for the Capitals to buy up the creative talent that is behind CapFriendly. On the other side, it is a way for the guy(s) who are the driving force behind CapF to cash in on their creative agency. We should not doubt that the Capitals are going to want something that is far more detailed and sophisticated than the current CapF platform.

No need for fans to worry. If there is user demand for the CapF services someone will quickly fill in the service need.

There are multiple teams searching for better goaltending this summer.

Prices are going to be too high for the Sens. Desperate teams like the Kings, Devils, Leafs and several others are in more of a buying panic than the Sens.

So, do nothing. Stay out of the first bid market. There will be more realistic options available when players begin heading back into training camp.

Folks watch Bob lift the Panthers through the playoffs. We think, if we only had a Bob in our nets we could have gone deep into the playoffs.

This is magical thinking. Bob is not on the market. We must not overpay for a fake Bob.

Norris wasn't a new guard addition - if you're looking to nip a Dorion mistake in the bud, it makes sense to do the math on a buyout. You speak about 'spending other people's money' as though that wasn't somehow a recurring throughline for this team over the past two decades. We should be thanking the heavens we don't need to endlessly talk about cost saving and scrimping, must say I am unsure why you want to bring that narrative back.

Ownership/front office will look at this pragmatically in relation to opportunity cost, not flat expense. The opportunity cost of *not* buying out Norris this year could be significantly more expensive if he floats along as a non-LTIR contract who plays 50% of the time. If you cut out 8M of your cap space each year, you will have a hurdle to icing a competitive roster. All to say, it is their prerogative to decide what to do, but the math here is worth unpacking and discussing. Wouldn't be surprised if a buyout did happen, it would be Colin White 2.0.
- Bartacus

Agree 100%. As long as the Sens are extremely careful with how they spend money going forward.

I don't want to see any more long term deals for non core pieces. I'm good with Drake Batherson signing a 8 year deal in the summer of 2026 (rough guess is 7M) but other than that, I'm good with Ridly Grieg getting a 5 year deal around 2.5-3M but bridge Pinto. Anyone else you give a bridge

There are multiple teams searching for better goaltending this summer.

Prices are going to be too high for the Sens. Desperate teams like the Kings, Devils, Leafs and several others are in more of a buying panic than the Sens.

So, do nothing. Stay out of the first bid market. There will be more realistic options available when players begin heading back into training camp.

Folks watch Bob lift the Panthers through the playoffs. We think, if we only had a Bob in our nets we could have gone deep into the playoffs.

This is magical thinking. Bob is not on the market. We must not overpay for a fake Bob.
- spatso

Agree, I like Stolarz, DeSmith, and Talbot. Recency bias