It’s really interesting to look at the Blackhawks. In the mid to late 90’s they were in a similar spot as the Flyers have been for a decade now, this endless middle of the road. They drafted some half decent players here and there but no top of the lineup players. In 2002, they get Keith in the 2nd round. The following season is where you see them begin to commit to the rebuild. They lose Amonte to FA in 2002. They then move on from Michael Nylander and Boris Mironov. 2003 draft they get Seabrook in the 1st rd and with the compensatory pick from Amonte leaving, they select Crawford. In 2003-04, they fully commit, trading Zhamnov and their best player Steve Sullivan, and finish 2nd to last. Unfortunately for them they lose the lottery and miss out on Ovechkin and Malkin, selecting Barker 3rd. They’d later turn Barker into Leddy who was a good player on their 2nd cup team. We all know what happens next, they continue to be awful. They finish 3rd to last in 05/06 getting Toews 3rd then finish 5th to last in 06/07 and get the lottery luck they didn’t get 3 years earlier, and select Kane. In 07/08 they’d have the 11th pick and miss on that pick. They were also able to trade 2001 #9 pick Ruutu for Andrew Ladd.

So, while they missed on a couple picks while they were tanking, they hit on several because they were bad for many seasons. Rebuilding/tanking for several seasons give you several chances to land a couple elite players to build your foundation. The Hawks won 3 cups because they were also able to draft well outside of those top picks and then make some key trades and signings. But without Toews and Kane the rest of it becomes irrelevant.

Just like Florida, without Barkov, Ekblad, and Huberdeau, all the great moves they’ve made recently wouldn’t matter.
- Schmojo

In that history, didn't the life and death of $ Bill play a big part? I always though the narrative was he refused to spend when it was possible.So was it tanking or skinflintism in the years before his death?

And again, the tanking def used by MBFF was of throwing games by the players who were actually dressed. Like, dogging it conspicuously/consistently on backchecks; whiffing on open nets, leaving beachball size opening for goals ... that kinda stuff.

EDIT: AT least, I thought that was what he meant.
- PT21

You should re-read his comment. He didn't say anything about the players throwing the games. Team management tanks, not players.

A good example would be Chicago signing Brian Campbell summer 08 and then Hossa in summer 09. They had their core in place but those 2 were valuable in their first cup run. Hossa obviously for all 3 cups. Once they drafted their foundation, Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook, they acquired Sharp and Ladd through trades and then signed Campbell and Hossa.

Until the foundation is built you don’t sign big FAs.
- Schmojo

Completely agree. Set the foundation and build it. Use FA to fill a hole when you get close to push closer.

Briere had his butt handed to him in that trade. Anaheim won hands down.

Drysdale is a second pairing dman at best. Think flashier Ghost.
- TheFreak

i don't know what to say if you think drysdale will only be a 2nd pairing dman

Chips and cocaine could be a follow up Ween song.
- Hesh_

i don't know what to say if you think drysdale will only be a 2nd pairing dman
- 2Real

I haven't seen anything that says otherwise at this point.

I haven't seen anything that says otherwise at this point.
- TheFreak

you would have to have to see him on ice instead of IR to make any kind of determination as to what his ceiling is

i don't know what to say if you think drysdale will only be a 2nd pairing dman
- 2Real

Let's hope he's over his injury issues or nothing else matters. He has missed over 120 games with health issues in the last 2 years including not being completely healthy when DB traded for him or at any point during the season. If the Ducks where as high on him as you and he doesn't have the injury history, they don't trade him.

Time will tell but the best ability is availability and that has been in extremely short supply.

It’s really interesting to look at the Blackhawks. In the mid to late 90’s they were in a similar spot as the Flyers have been for a decade now, this endless middle of the road. They drafted some half decent players here and there but no top of the lineup players. In 2002, they get Keith in the 2nd round. The following season is where you see them begin to commit to the rebuild. They lose Amonte to FA in 2002. They then move on from Michael Nylander and Boris Mironov. 2003 draft they get Seabrook in the 1st rd and with the compensatory pick from Amonte leaving, they select Crawford. In 2003-04, they fully commit, trading Zhamnov and their best player Steve Sullivan, and finish 2nd to last. Unfortunately for them they lose the lottery and miss out on Ovechkin and Malkin, selecting Barker 3rd. They’d later turn Barker into Leddy who was a good player on their 2nd cup team. We all know what happens next, they continue to be awful. They finish 3rd to last in 05/06 getting Toews 3rd then finish 5th to last in 06/07 and get the lottery luck they didn’t get 3 years earlier, and select Kane. In 07/08 they’d have the 11th pick and miss on that pick. They were also able to trade 2001 #9 pick Ruutu for Andrew Ladd.

So, while they missed on a couple picks while they were tanking, they hit on several because they were bad for many seasons. Rebuilding/tanking for several seasons give you several chances to land a couple elite players to build your foundation. The Hawks won 3 cups because they were also able to draft well outside of those top picks and then make some key trades and signings. But without Toews and Kane the rest of it becomes irrelevant.

Just like Florida, without Barkov, Ekblad, and Huberdeau, all the great moves they’ve made recently wouldn’t matter.
- Schmojo

It’s a long term process. It’s a commitment. It is not going to happen in flyer land ever

Btw excellent post

It’s really interesting to look at the Blackhawks. In the mid to late 90’s they were in a similar spot as the Flyers have been for a decade now, this endless middle of the road. They drafted some half decent players here and there but no top of the lineup players. In 2002, they get Keith in the 2nd round. The following season is where you see them begin to commit to the rebuild. They lose Amonte to FA in 2002. They then move on from Michael Nylander and Boris Mironov. 2003 draft they get Seabrook in the 1st rd and with the compensatory pick from Amonte leaving, they select Crawford. In 2003-04, they fully commit, trading Zhamnov and their best player Steve Sullivan, and finish 2nd to last. Unfortunately for them they lose the lottery and miss out on Ovechkin and Malkin, selecting Barker 3rd. They’d later turn Barker into Leddy who was a good player on their 2nd cup team. We all know what happens next, they continue to be awful. They finish 3rd to last in 05/06 getting Toews 3rd then finish 5th to last in 06/07 and get the lottery luck they didn’t get 3 years earlier, and select Kane. In 07/08 they’d have the 11th pick and miss on that pick. They were also able to trade 2001 #9 pick Ruutu for Andrew Ladd.

So, while they missed on a couple picks while they were tanking, they hit on several because they were bad for many seasons. Rebuilding/tanking for several seasons give you several chances to land a couple elite players to build your foundation. The Hawks won 3 cups because they were also able to draft well outside of those top picks and then make some key trades and signings. But without Toews and Kane the rest of it becomes irrelevant.

Just like Florida, without Barkov, Ekblad, and Huberdeau, all the great moves they’ve made recently wouldn’t matter.
- Schmojo

You got the story all wrong.

Wirtz didn't care about the Stanley Cup... he was just trying to maximize gate revenues while spending the least amount that he absolutely had to.

There wasn't a commitment to a rebuild in the Pulford and the early Tallon eras. Wirtz was just too cheap to resign their stars to the big money contracts of the day so they lost them all to UFA.

Then they tried to hoodwink the fanbase by bringing in a bunch of off-brand and over-the-hill replacements (Havlat, Marty Lapointe, Aucoin, Jason Williams, Khabibulin, Smolinski, Barnaby, Spacek, Handzus, etc) to add to their pathetic core of Kyle Calder, Mark Bell, Arnason and Ruutu. Once it became clear the team was hopeless the fans got fed up and basically abandoned them.

Then Wirtz died and everything changed. They recommitted to spending as much as possible to win, signed a bunch of dudes in their prime for big money, and then the fruits of being accidentally terrible all those years started trickling in. And Patrick Kane... that draft party they had at the UC in '07 basically reignited the fanbase.

So yeah, completely different from what Edmonton, Buffalo, Pittsburgh have done int he past. It kind of has features of the Chuck era Flyers except the Flyers are spending to the max and getting '03-'07 Blackhawks kind of results.

In that history, didn't the life and death of $ Bill play a big part? I always though the narrative was he refused to spend when it was possible.So was it tanking or skinflintism in the years before his death?
- PT21

Yeah he was a cheap owner for 40 years. Famously didn’t televise home games. Dale Tallon joined the front office in ‘98 and was named GM by ‘03. I think he had a lot to do with the rebuild approach.

You got the story all wrong.

Wirtz didn't care about the Stanley Cup... he was just trying to maximize gate revenues while spending the least amount that he absolutely had to.

There wasn't a commitment to a rebuild in the Pulford and the early Tallon eras. Wirtz was just too cheap to resign their stars to the big money contracts of the day so they lost them all to UFA.

Then they tried to hoodwink the fanbase by bringing in a bunch of off-brand and over-the-hill replacements (Havlat, Marty Lapointe, Aucoin, Jason Williams, Khabibulin, Smolinski, Barnaby, Spacek, Handzus, etc) to add to their pathetic core of Kyle Calder, Mark Bell, Arnason and Ruutu. Once it became clear the team was hopeless the fans got fed up and basically abandoned them.

Then Wirtz died and everything changed. They recommitted to spending as much as possible to win, signed a bunch of dudes in their prime for big money, and then the fruits of being accidentally terrible all those years started trickling in. And Patrick Kane... that draft party they had at the UC in '07 basically reignited the fanbase.

So yeah, completely different from what Edmonton, Buffalo, Pittsburgh have done int he past. It kind of has features of the Chuck era Flyers except the Flyers are spending to the max and getting '03-'07 Blackhawks kind of results.
- Tomahawk

Yes Wirtz was cheap but he was cheap for 40 years. From 2002-04 they traded 4 of their best players away. All of the players you mentioned other than Havlat were gone within a year or 2 of their acquisitions. Havlat was only 25 when they got him.

My point was they were in a similar place as the Flyers for a number of years, not good but also not really awful. It wasn’t until they started to really trade those guys that they picked high enough, enough times, to build their foundation. If the Flyers trade the likes of TK, Laughton, Sanheim, etc. it could allow them to pick high enough the next few years to get some elite talent like Chicago got with Toews and Kane. It requires a little luck like them getting Kane but it would give the Flyers a better chance of becoming a contender vs investing long term in TK and trying to rush it.

It’s a long term process. It’s a commitment. It is not going to happen in flyer land ever

Btw excellent post
- Just5

Thanks. I do hope we’re wrong and they do see the light at some point. I really hope Briere is somehow smarter than all of us and makes it happen.

I used to attend dozens of games a year and in the last 10 years I’ve been to maybe 2 games. One of which was the Lindros jersey retirement. I always kept up with the team but not like I had. Then, after years of being checked out, the Michkov pick got me excited last year. It made me think they were turning a corner because they’d have never made that pick in the past. But I sit here now and await what happens with TK. That to me will say it all. If they sign him, then nothing has changed and I’ll probably check out again.

I can only imagine what being a young fan is like and how they are probably losing generations of fans.

Just my 2 cents here while back reading a little today…

The only reason oilers won series was because Dallas simply hit a wall. Vegas and avs is brutal path and hintz injury surely a major factor.


Florida wins this series in 4 maybe 5

It is.


Here is my armchair gm moves which I think are easy.

Trade Konecny
Trade Laughton
Listen on Frost and Farabee but only for a great hockey trade
Send Desluariers to Lehigh
Send Atkinson to Lehigh(I get it. He is a nice guy. But i don't think he has a role anymore on this team)

Do not buyout anyone Let the money fall off next season

Look for possible projects(example Kaliyev in LA)

If you sign a FA, make sure he can be moved at TDL if needed.
- J35Bacher

Agreed as well! I haven’t seen this type of consensus on this board since 2008 when everyone wanted to trade Forsberg. Well done!

You have it wrong. Gauthier wanted to sign after his first NCAA season was over. Briere and the Flyers said no.
- MJL

Ok, so say you are right and this was the reason. Think about it, Quitter decided he would rather pass up roughly $950K in the 2023 season and a shot to make the Flyers, and instead go back and play another college season and demand a trade, which pushes his NHL entry back a year, just to spite the Flyers? Does this sound like a good and sound decision to you? The kid has serious character issues. We saw it first hand in the final four, where not only did he open his stupid mouth to trash talk the Denver team before the final, he was a complete no show in the final game. Anaheim ... he's all yours!

You just continue to make shlt up.
- TheFreak

Fact, not opinion. Go read for yourself.

Briere had his butt handed to him in that trade. Anaheim won hands down.

Drysdale is a second pairing dman at best. Think flashier Ghost.
- TheFreak

You have no idea what you are talking about, so don't try to come on this forum and act like an authority on the subject ... you're not! Come back in 2-3 seasons, then you can perhaps have some facts to backup your claims.

The real issue is the head coach believes that playing Poehling 19 minutes as the 1C gave them a better chance of winning the Cap game then playing Frost and Brink
- MJL

Sadly, the coach was right in this regard. Couts, Frost and Brink all played poorly down the stretch, when the game intensity increase significantly.

Just my 2 cents here while back reading a little today…

The only reason oilers won series was because Dallas simply hit a wall. Vegas and avs is brutal path and hintz injury surely a major factor.


Florida wins this series in 4 maybe 5
- Stayin alive

I hope you are right but I expect the oilers to win. I still can’t believe that the oilers had 10 shots in game 6 and won. Incredible.

Signing really good F/A means giving a 28/29 year old a 7 year deal. This is the exact deal everyone is complaining that we gave Couturier and exactly the same deal no one wants TK to get. Why are these yet-to-be-determined F/A different? Personally I would never give out a 7-8 year deal to a late 20's player....
- mr4tno

Go look at the F/A signings over the past decade, very few of them are 7-8 year deals. The sweet spot is probably 4-5 years. These kind of deals are what I am referring to.

I hope the Necas rumors are true and he does get traded this week. So ready for the offseason to begin and see what players get moved. The finals needs to end in a sweep to get this season over with. The earliest the seaaon can end is June 15th. It really is stupid that the season for ice hockey could end within 2 weeks from 4th of July. Truly idiotic.
- Trox88

I completely agree, the playoffs should start April 1st and not go past May 30th. June Hockey is just stupid. The NBA season starts later than the NHL season and yet both finals are happenings at the same time.

Fact, not opinion. Go read for yourself.
- jd250

No it is not fact. You purposely have the story wrong. It wasn't about guaranteed ice time...show me the facts to that if they are facts. It was about burning the first year, which I believe he was promised by Fletcher, and Briere said no, just to comeback 2 months later to try and sign him. He wasn't ready in March, but was in May?????

What part of this is so hard for you to understand? When your top prospect in the organization, Michkov wasn't drafted yet, comes to you to sign his ELC, you do it. Name another team that doesn't sign their top prospect to an ELC like this?

He is good enough to be top 6 on this team as a rookie, so no need to guarantee ice time.

It is.


Here is my armchair gm moves which I think are easy.

Trade Konecny
Trade Laughton
Listen on Frost and Farabee but only for a great hockey trade
Send Desluariers to Lehigh
Send Atkinson to Lehigh(I get it. He is a nice guy. But i don't think he has a role anymore on this team)

Do not buyout anyone Let the money fall off next season

Look for possible projects(example Kaliyev in LA)

If you sign a FA, make sure he can be moved at TDL if needed.
- J35Bacher

Good post but I'd add the following:

I'd make sure we trade TK for max amount. Not just to get rid of him even if that means re signing him with no NM clauses and then trading him. 1st and a couple of top prospects. TK is a very good player on a terrible team and an all star. This could be a franchise altering move that sets us up for success if done properly.

Trade laughton for whatever you can get. Other than being a nice locker room guy, he doesn't bring much.

Frost and Farabee. Always listen but again, It'd have to be a good hockey trade. Not trading them just to move on. Both have value and Frost is still improving. I could see us kicking him to the curb only to have developed him to see him flourish with another team as is our way.
Agreed on D LO.
I'd either demote Atkinson or buy him out. He's absolutely cooked.
Projects are fine if they are not locked up long term.
I don't sign any UFA at all. If you need to fill a spot, call up someone from the A to see what they've got.
Once this season is over, move on from Torts and try to sign a younger coach that favors a more current system. Along with this, find an assistant who knows how to coach a PP. I can't stand watching this stupidity any longer.

Finally, I really hope Michkov comes over this year, so he can start to adapt to the NHL game and so there's a reason to watch.

You have no idea what you are talking about, so don't try to come on this forum and act like an authority on the subject ... you're not! Come back in 2-3 seasons, then you can perhaps have some facts to backup your claims.
- jd250

I am more than welcome to come on this PUBLIC forum and voice my opinion. So don't be like that...?!?!?!?!

I actually do know what I am talking about. At this point in his career, Drysdale has missed more games that he has played. Being healthy and able to play in games is a key component to being a top tier player. Just ask Lindros and Patrick how much injuries screwed their careers. Lindros' career would have been probably top 5 all time if he could have stayed healthy. Patrick might have been a middle tier center if he could have stayed healthy. Being repeatedly injured is a huge aspect to how a player should be relied upon in a lineup.

He can have all the talent in the world, but not being able to actually play in the games makes it mean nothing. A top pairing dman needs to play in at least 75 games a year to be an effective top dman. Not being able to appear affects that. He has had major surgery on his shoulder at just 21, and is a smaller player. He seems a bit brittle, and bad shoulders on dmen are like bad hips on goalies.

So far, he has shown he skates pretty, makes some nice passes, but really was uneffective for the Flyers after he was acquired. He had 5 points in 24 games, and was a -18 in that time. He has a combined 50 points in 147 NHL...is a 0.34 ppg career average, which gives him an average of only 28 points in an 82 game season. He is a career -61 in 147....so his defensive game seems to not be upper tier, as was shown last year in his limited appearances with Philly.

How is any of this top pairing?