The litany of bad decisions since 2012 is staggering:

The JVR for Schenn trade

Selecting Morin at 11OA in 2013

Firing Lavi 3 games into 13-14 rather than at the end of the prior season. This would have prevented the signing of VLC

The AMac acquisition and extension

Hiring Hak and keeping him for way too long

Hiring Fletcher which led to AV and Hayes

Paying to lose Ghost so that they could massively overpay to acquire a worse player in Risto. Followed by extending Risto rather than moving him to recoup some assets

Gordon and Yeo

Hiring Torts and putting a glorified cheerleader at the top of the organization.

The bungling of Gauthier

I have zero faith in the Flyers at this point.
- BiggE

I do believe the Patrick draft pick is still devastating today. In a draft with franchise altering prospects on the board, the Flyers picked the prospect who did not get a second contract.

I thought Bob asked to be traded, didn't want to be the backup to Bryz.
- WhiskeyMan

Yes. The signing of Bryz to the 9 year contract left Bob with no path to playing time short of Bryz being a space cadet. The ARI players were happy to tell people about his character issues but the Flyers/fans ignored them as sour grapes.

Yes. The signing of Bryz to the 9 year contract left Bob with no path to playing time short of Bryz being a space cadet. The ARI players were happy to tell people about his character issues but the Flyers/fans ignored them as sour grapes.
- Flyers_01

tocchet being one of them, saying "no one asked me about him, I woulda told ya"

Trading Bob was a horrible mistake but the bigger mistake was signing Bryz in the first place.

Re next season, the best thing that can happen is that some vets are dealt, Cam, Peterson and RyJo come completely off the books and the team drops 10 points in the standings and goes into the lottery with a pick in the 5-8 range.
- BiggE

It turned out to be a huge mistake, no doubt, but I can at least recognize why they did it, so I can’t bury them for it too badly.

Bryz was quite impressive for the Yotes for a couple of years. I remember them playing tough for the first time in, well, since they moved there, really. I can recall the year before sitting at Good Dog Bar a few blocks from The Kimmel Center watching Bryz really handle the situation well against Detroit. They couldn’t score for the life of themselves all season, Doan probably led the team with 4, maybe 5 goals, but they were stingy about letting the puck in. Bryz was a major reason for that. I thought how nice it must be to have a goalie like that in your back pocket. I think they took the Red Wings 7 before succumbing.

The next year was also very good and they made it into the playoffs back to back seasons for the first time. Detroit put the screws to them that postseason, but it was Detroit, sooo…

So it’s reasonable to think that maybe, just maybe, by throwing him on a more talented team that you might have your answer. After all, he was doing it in the West, too.

But then we find it was also a mix of personal highs, along with Tippett’s scheme and a defensively sound team. Oh, and he’s crazy. For sure. But hey, sometimes a goalies crazy. Goalies be goalie-ing. That happens.

Ofc, Tippett really only had one more year of success in him after that, too. I think Mike Smith had a great year, Yandle was an already established star, and OEL was just beginning to blossom. Then the lockout hit and the team stunk on ice after that. Tippett had a tough time in Edmonton, too. They weren’t exactly defensively sound up there.

Ah, well. Bryz was at least a HOF interview and sound bite provider.

Friedman is saying the Canes may be doing a GM switch by hiring the former CLB GM. The new GM won’t have sole primary decision-making responsibilities. There will be AGM’s and Dundon collaborating with the GM who will function to communicate with other teams. Some potential GMs have been scared off but they still have a long list interested.

Looks like the Flyer blueprint may be the new way forward.
- Minnyhock

That's not the Flyers blueprint lol. The Canes have already been operating like that for years.

The Flyers blueprint is allowing the geriatric coach to dogwalk the GM into making questionable roster moves. Which no other team is doing.

It's one thing to be terminally mediocre.

But is it asking a lot to at least be entertaining in the process?

The Flyers cured me of a 45-year addiction to hockey! 😴

That's not the Flyers blueprint lol. The Canes have already been operating like that for years.

The Flyers blueprint is allowing the geriatric coach to dogwalk the GM into making questionable roster moves. Which no other team is doing.
- Feanor

I wonder who else torts is scouting up for the flyers brass.

I wonder who else torts is scouting up for the flyers brass.
- Just5

Scottie Upshall could be available. Let’s check. With a name like Scottie he’s gotta know the sport.

https://www.nytimes.com/a...yers-trades-of-the-2010s/

2. Matt Mangene, a 2015 second-round pick, and a 2014 third-round pick to the New York Islanders for Andrew MacDonald (2014)
Had Holmgren and the Flyers traded for MacDonald with a plan to use him as a rental player for the 2013-14 stretch run, then waved goodbye that summer, this trade may have still made the list, but not all the way up at No. 2.

Six years and $30 million dollars later, however, and it was a lock for the top three.

The Flyers acquired MacDonald with every intention of signing him long term, a goal they achieved before their 2013-14 playoff series against the New York Rangers. With the Islanders, MacDonald had slowly transitioned into a big-minutes role, establishing himself as one of the league’s preeminent shot blockers. The problem? By even-strength advanced metrics, MacDonald was one of the league’s worst play-driving defensemen in that role, and hockey followers who bought into the efficacy of those stats loudly warned the Flyers of the foolishness of committing big money to him, or even acquiring him at all.

Guess what? The stat people were right.

Perhaps MacDonald could have thrived (or at least held his own) in a third-pair role with the Flyers. But that wasn’t how he was deployed, and it certainly wasn’t how he was paid. MacDonald became another example of the Holmgren front office’s post-Pronger struggles to properly evaluate defensemen, and he’s probably the least popular player of the era among fans. And while the Philly faithful occasionally were overly cruel to MacDonald, they weren’t wrong in their belief that an organization stuck in a cycle of mediocrity was passing off a defenseman best suited for the No. 5 or No. 6 slot on the depth chart as a viable No. 2. MacDonald became a symbol of the era for frustrated fans.

And the Flyers relinquished a second-round pick (that ultimately turned into Brandon Carlo) and a third-round pick (Ilya Sorokin) for the right to make MacDonald that symbol. Yikes.

1. James van Riemsdyk to Toronto for Luke Schenn (2012)
All of the other “worst trades” on our list have mitigating circumstances, or at least arguments can be made in their defense. There were cap implications in the Hartnell deal. The Bryzgalov trade and signing were driven by ownership, not the front office. Even with the MacDonald deal, one could make the case that the trade itself wasn’t the major issue — it was the massive overpay of a contract that truly goes down in infamy.

There’s nothing that can be said to “defend” James van Riemsdyk for Luke Schenn, however. It was simply an awful, awful trade.
-----
The MacDonald signing never made any sense from the stat level. This is another case of the player passing the "eye test" for a particular GM (and apparantly AGM) while ignoring the hard data. Fletcher continued this with Risto by falling in love with him and it continues to be words Torts lives by every day. I don't think the Flyers will ever learn in this regard.

Luke Schenn, other than being a high draft pick, it made even less sense to try to make him a top pairing dman than Risto. He just didn't have the foot speed or skill set but was marketed as Adam Foote lite, i think?

This is not to say that Luke and Risto are not capable of playing in the NHL and if they were just JAG (just another guy) on the Flyers rounding out the bottom 3 nobody would care but both of them were expensive to acquire and paid well to be top pairing which neither, if you look at their metrics, were ever suited for.

Scottie Upshall could be available. Let’s check. With a name like Scottie he’s gotta know the sport.
- Hesh_

Wait, no. I checked. He’s got a podcast. That’s a better gig at this time.

I wonder who else torts is scouting up for the flyers brass.
- Just5

Jeannot is an available Torts type player.

There are things they've screwed up. This was one because Ed Snider overruled his GM and the organization's goalie coach out of impatience to "guarantee" something that simply couldn't be guaranteed. It ended up, indirectly, working out OK. Mason's Flyers numbers were almost identical to Bob's career numbers.

For the record, Holmgren thought Bob was going to be a good No. 1 goalie. Jeff Reese thought the same, even more vehemently. But neither could guarantee to Ed Snider, after one year in the NHL, Bob was absolutely ready for a deep run come playoff time. And that's what Snider wanted. A guarantee Bobrovsky was ready for that OR a proven goalie of Vezina caliber (in his recent past).

Snider had been been talked into coming back with Boucher and Leighton (Bob was a surprise) in 2010-11. And then Lavy had a goalie carousel in the 2011 playoffs. Snider wasn't going to give in again.
- bmeltzer

I think even if they had kept Bob, the inability to replace Pronger and Timonen had more to do with the Flyers struggles. I don’t think much would have been different in the following decade.

Yes, I agree Breier has not done anything great, but we have to give him a chance. He has only been in the job 1 year and he hasn't done anything egregious. I think this off-season is a big one for him.
- jd250

Over paid by a million a year, and 2 years too long on Seeler. Wanted to keep Walker... thank god he didn't.

I don't think he got enough compensation for taking the Peterson and Johanson contracts.

But yeah, so far he hasn't done a ND or JVR type signing.

Can't shake the feeling it's coming. When he resigns TK to ANY contract, it will be a huge mistake. TK's value is in his trade return to this team, not his skills as a player.

No need to buy anyone out, let Cam, Ryjo and Peterson all come completely off the books in 2025. Along with TDA’s buyout ending, that will free up roughly 16.4 million.

Plus in 2026 Hayes is off the books and the same for Ellis and Risto in 2027. As long as they doing nothing stupid, yeah, a big if for sure, they will be in excellent cap shape by 25-26.
- BiggE

100%.

you are a delusional dude. do you see any of them even on the roster to start the season?

grans is more of a fading prospect just like ginning and attard at this juncture. Ollie same thing. these guys aint as young as you seem to think. They all have numerous season of pro hockey under their belt.

The fact you really think they should see what they have in these players is funny. dont you think last season that should have been done? Nah torts is trying to win at all cost. he dont care one iota about the future.
- hello it's me 2050

I’m pretty sure Briere said at the end of the season that it didn’t look like anyone from the phantoms would be ready to make the jump next season. So barring any of them having a crazy good camp it’s unlikely any of them make the team.

Andrea is only 22 though, so I wouldn’t be writing him off. Last year was his first year in NA.

As I think about the season coming up, I don't agree with Jason that the Flyers have to make the playoffs to be a successful season. To me a successful season for the Flyers might actually look like a step back, with the Flyers finishing lower in the standings this coming season, but in the process clearing out more veterans that will not be part of the future, players like Laughton, Cam and Risto, clearing more cap space and opening up spots for younger players like Lycksell, Grans, Ginning, Attard and Andrae to get some NHL experience and continue to develop. You need to see what you have in these players and decide if they are part of this or not. Can't do that just playing in the AHL. The 2025 draft is going be a deeper draft so the Flyers should want to get as much draft capital as they can to really build the foundation for a contending team for many years to follow. Plus if Michkov does come over, the Flyers will have some cap space the in the 25-26 season to sign 1 or 2 good free agents and really kick this thing off. My opinion is this coming season is not the right time, more clean up is needed IMO.
- jd250

I agree with you here. It needs to be done. I have been saying this for over a year now.

This is so silly to me
- THE BLACK HAND

Why? It's huge in Canada....a 30 year Stanley Cup drought for Canadian teams. Even Calgary fans are cheering for Edmonton this year.

Stop it with "the bungling of Gauthier" already. Its well documented by now, the kid has serious character issues. He is entitled and arrogant. The Flyers did nothing wrong in this situation.
- jd250

Is he wrong? They didn’t bungle the Gauthier situation?

https://twitter.com/charl...tatus/1797460417972981774



My favorite response so far.

Charlie O'Connor
@charlieo_conn
·
13h
a team won a Cup without tanking literally last year lmao
- MBFlyerfan

I’m not within the camp that believes Edmonton or Florida have ever truly “tanked”. Many come on here daily and tell the story about how terribly ran the Flyers are and what a laughing stock they’ve been the past decade. I think Florida and Edmonton have been worst for longer. Something had to give for both franchises.

They have defended really well. I am surprised by that. Kept Dallas to a lot of perimeter opportunities. I did not think they would beat Dallas.
- mickel25

Me neither. but Dallas looked worn out by game 4 of this series. Beating Vegas and Colorado took a lot out of them. They are still a young team, and losing Pavelski will hurt, but Stankovin looks great and Maverick Bourque, AHL MVP this year, just joined the main roster for game 6 yesterday.

Dallas should be even better next year, and the next half dozen as well.

Why? It's huge in Canada....a 30 year Stanley Cup drought for Canadian teams. Even Calgary fans are cheering for Edmonton this year.
- TheFreak

I’ve never viewed it that way….but I am cheering for Edmonton. I did cheer for the Leafs the last couple of years when it came to the playoffs…mostly because of the atmosphere it creates when they are winning.

Over paid by a million a year, and 2 years too long on Seeler. Wanted to keep Walker... thank god he didn't.

I don't think he got enough compensation for taking the Peterson and Johanson contracts.

But yeah, so far he hasn't done a ND or JVR type signing.

Can't shake the feeling it's coming. When he resigns TK to ANY contract, it will be a huge mistake. TK's value is in his trade return to this team, not his skills as a player.
- TheFreak

you're knocking him for something he didn't do?

I do believe the Patrick draft pick is still devastating today. In a draft with franchise altering prospects on the board, the Flyers picked the prospect who did not get a second contract.
- Trox88

Of course I was. The 3 guys taken after him are all Franchise cornerstones.

you are a delusional dude. do you see any of them even on the roster to start the season?

grans is more of a fading prospect just like ginning and attard at this juncture. Ollie same thing. these guys aint as young as you seem to think. They all have numerous season of pro hockey under their belt.

The fact you really think they should see what they have in these players is funny. dont you think last season that should have been done? Nah torts is trying to win at all cost. he dont care one iota about the future.
- hello it's me 2050

They really aren’t NHLers.

I mean maybe Andrae gets a little time as a third pairing guy at some point, but nah. Not really NHLers. Not players of significance, at least. Call up guys. Desperation roster slots.

We’ve seen so many over the years. Everyone’s got them.

Since the lockout in 2005 here's a list of Stanley Cup Champions. Yes, there's a bunch of ways to build but the one "tried & true" common theme is that almost every team that wins has high-end talent they acquired through the draft. Mostly the top of the draft, but also in the first few rounds.

You've gotta win at drafting if you want a chance to win the Stanley Cup. There's a few teams below who don't have a top three pick on their team, but not many, I think Anaheim 07, Detroit 08 and Boston in 11 where the only teams who didn't draft their own top elite talent at the top of the draft.

2004–05 canceled due to labour dispute
2005–06 Carolina Hurricanes - Eric Staal 2nd, Cam Ward 25th Conn Smythe
2006–07 Anaheim Ducks - Pronger trade, Niedermayer UFA & Getzlaf 19th
2007–08 Detroit Red Wings - Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom
2008–09 Pittsburgh Penguins - Crosby 1st, Malkin 2nd, MAF 1st
2009–10 Chicago Blackhawks - Toews 3rd, Kane 1st, DEPTH
2010–11 Boston Bruins - Bergeron & Tim Thomas Conn Smythe
2011–12 Los Angeles Kings - Kopitar 11th, Brown 13th, Doughty 2nd
2012–13 Chicago Blackhawks - Toews 3rd, Kane 1st
2013–14 Los Angeles Kings - Doughty, Kopitar, Brown, Quick
2014–15 Chicago Blackhawks - Toews 3rd, Kane 1st, DEPTH
2015–16 Pittsburgh Penguins - Crosby 1st, Malkin 2nd, MAF 1st
2016–17 Pittsburgh Penguins - Crosby 1st, Malkin 2nd, MAF 1st
2017–18 Washington Capitals - Ovechkin 1st, Backstrom 4th
2018–19 St. Louis Blues - Pietrangelo 4th
2019–20 Tampa Bay Lightning - Stamkos 1st, Hedman 2nd
2020–21 Tampa Bay Lightning - Stamkos 1st, Hedman 2nd
2021–22 Colorado Avalanche - MacKinnon 1st, Landeskog, 2nd, Makar 4th
2022–23 Vegas Golden Knights - unique situation expansion team
- Dave21Brown

Bruins had Seguin who they drafted #2 and were able to acquire by trading Kessel, a former 5th overall pick.

The thing is, since the cap was introduced, most teams around the league are doing well. There’s fewer financial problems so teams are bailing on top players as much. Remember the Flyers also traded $15m in the Lindros trade. LA traded $16m to get Gretzky. In that new Sakic doc they tell how the success of the movie Air Force One, helped Colorado’s owners afford to match the deal and prevent him from going to NYR. After the lockout they made it illegal to trade money. So these deals are less likely.

Just look at a lot of offer sheets. Homer’s offer to Weber would have easily gotten him 10 years earlier but not in 2014 and not today.

This change in financial landscape has put the emphasis on building through the draft. You can’t just outspend everybody. Some teams have realized this faster than others. I think a lot of us fear that the Flyers still haven’t fully realized it yet.