40 to 50 pts guy on 2nd line is a poor 2nd line player. Not on a good team unless he is a developing young player
- hfc355

6th best forward scorer on the two teams in the Cup final are 41 and 39 points

The Rangers sixth best forward couldn't even crack 30 points.

I thought those were good teams.

I am of the opinion that the Pens should keep him. He under-performed last season and this is a contract year for him. While he definitely won't be playing for the Pens in the 2025-26 season if he wants to be playing for anyone at a decent salary by then he better put up a good season for the Pens this coming season. I get that he didn't like leaving Vegas for Pittsburgh. That is the business of the game, get over it .
- PghPens668771

I don't know that they should definitely keep him but some of what you're saying is kinda where I'm at, as well. I won't care that much if he isn't traded. I think he's a quality player and like you said in a contract year wanting one more good contract. 40 points in 76 games is lower end 2nd line winger when he was actually being used in bottom 6 for some extended periods of time last season. Contract year he could be extra motivated and produce more.

... And if he's traded that's all good too I just hope the cap space it provides and/or the return for him is an upgrade come October.

Team is only getting older and weaker. They suck.
- Feds91Stammer

They haven't been a good 5 on 5 team in years hahah

40-50 points is second line winger production.
- j.boyd919

It is in a vacuum. Problem wasn't his production, it was his consistency.

After the first game of November (November 4th), he then went the rest of the month (12 games) with 2 assists. He had no points is an abbreviated January and never had more than 9 points in any month (9 points in March, 16 games).

Aside from his points, he just didn't seem to really gel with anyone in the top-6. So yes, 40 points may be 2nd line production and he may be getting paid second line money, but I don't think he was a 2nd line player for the majority of the season.

It is in a vacuum. Problem wasn't his production, it was his consistency.

After the first game of November (November 4th), he then went the rest of the month (12 games) with 2 assists. He had no points is an abbreviated January and never had more than 9 points in any month (9 points in March, 16 games).

Aside from his points, he just didn't seem to really gel with anyone in the top-6. So yes, 40 points may be 2nd line production and he may be getting paid second line money, but I don't think he was a 2nd line player for the majority of the season.
- jmatchett383

Most 2nd line wingers are streaky. If they weren't, and consistantly produced all season, they'd be first line or elite.

Moved to a new house over the weekend. No internet / TV yet, and still an infinite number of things to do to set up, hence may rely on the commentary on this site to keep up with the game -- which I'm sure will be an unbiased view of the play and refereeing.

Most 2nd line wingers are streaky. If they weren't, and consistantly produced all season, they'd be first line or elite.
- MattStrat

this^

Most 2nd line wingers are streaky. If they weren't, and consistantly produced all season, they'd be first line or elite.
- MattStrat

Scoring streakiness wasn’t the issue, it was consistency in overall play. Without looking at it in assuming Rakell and Smith produced somewhat similarly? They’re both the same age and they both have the same cap hit. The reason why Smith was a failure and no one really talks about Rakell is because Smith’s compete level was just nonexistent for 2/3 of the season. It was like he played hard for the first month or so, then spent five months sulking about Vegas, and then started playing hard again during that 10 game stretch where it looked like we might fall backwards into a playoff spot

Scoring streakiness wasn’t the issue, it was consistency in overall play. Without looking at it in assuming Rakell and Smith produced somewhat similarly? They’re both the same age and they both have the same cap hit. The reason why Smith was a failure and no one really talks about Rakell is because Smith’s compete level was just nonexistent for 2/3 of the season. It was like he played hard for the first month or so, then spent five months sulking about Vegas, and then started playing hard again during that 10 game stretch where it looked like we might fall backwards into a playoff spot
- Victoro311

Madden and Yohe both said Smith didn't want to be here. Yohe said his teammates weren't happy with his effort. They felt his feelings about the trade affected his on ice performance. For whatever it's worth, that's what those guys reported.

Yeah, Smith had a great start then disappeared for 4 months. I thought he was pretty good the last month or so too.

I think there's something to be said about getting him in a contract year. Playing for his next deal might pay off. I'm still inclined to trade him regardless if they don't retain.

Too say a hockey player didn’t want to be traded from a the team he just won a Stanley cup from is true of any player that was traded from the team he just won a cup with. For guys so obsessed with quantifying everything in numbers you’re putting a lot of stock in speculation journalism.

Too say a hockey player didn’t want to be traded from a the team he just won a Stanley cup from is true of any player that was traded from the team he just won a cup with. For guys so obsessed with quantifying everything in numbers you’re putting a lot of stock in speculation journalism.
- Grinder47

If your boy Madden said DOC was a locker room issue you’d be all over it on every thread.

Free agent pool isn’t that impressive. A team could choose to just trade for Smith now instead of hoping to land a top 9 winger in free agency for a similar price, but longer term. With the cap going up, it wouldn’t be surprising to see fringe top 6 players getting bigger contracts.

The Kings have some space now, and he actually seems like a player who fits their style. Or maybe Toffoli prices himself out of Winnipeg and they take Smith as a consolation.

Too say a hockey player didn’t want to be traded from a the team he just won a Stanley cup from is true of any player that was traded from the team he just won a cup with. For guys so obsessed with quantifying everything in numbers you’re putting a lot of stock in speculation journalism.
- Grinder47

I agree. Who wants to leave the team they've played for so long, finally won a cup with them, in Nevada weather all year with lower taxes?... The dude is a human hahah. I think it's easy for speculation journalism to align with scoring slumps. I watched pretty much every game, he didn't look to be lacking effort many times to my eyes. I will say though when Rak went down that second line went to sh!t and while that second line overall was producing great, Rak wasn't producing much at all while on it before going down with injury .... Also, Smith was injured around exact same time as Rak, just came back quicker.

Free agent pool isn’t that impressive. A team could choose to just trade for Smith now instead of hoping to land a top 9 winger in free agency for a similar price, but longer term. With the cap going up, it wouldn’t be surprising to see fringe top 6 players getting bigger contracts.

The Kings have some space now, and he actually seems like a player who fits their style. Or maybe Toffoli prices himself out of Winnipeg and they take Smith as a consolation.
- drummer829

I have to disagree on this not being an impressive free agent group, at the moment at least. There are 57, 42, 40, a couple 30 goal scorers, a pile of 20+ goal scorers.
Top wingers/centers on the market:

Top 6 C/W - Stamkos, Guentzel, Reinhart, Marchessault, Duchene, Necas (RFA but available), Lindholm, Kane.

Top 9 C/W - Monahan, Drouin, Toffoli, Tarasenko, Reravainen, Bertuzzi, Domi, Henrique, Perron, Stephenson.

Other good players that could go at a discount - Mantha, Duclair, Sprong, Foegele, DeBrusk, Zucker, Joshua, Roslovic, Wenneberg, Arvidsson.

I agree. Who wants to leave the team they've played for so long, finally won a cup with them, in Nevada weather all year with lower taxes?... The dude is a human hahah. I think it's easy for speculation journalism to align with scoring slumps. I watched pretty much every game, he didn't look to be lacking effort many times to my eyes. I will say though when Rak went down that second line went to sh!t and while that second line overall was producing great, Rak wasn't producing much at all while on it before going down with injury .... Also, Smith was injured around exact same time as Rak, just came back quicker.
- MattStrat

I’m not opposed to trading the guy, but you have to get a forward back of the same value. Laine on paper seems great, but I don’t think he’s the guy.

I agree. Who wants to leave the team they've played for so long, finally won a cup with them, in Nevada weather all year with lower taxes?... The dude is a human hahah. I think it's easy for speculation journalism to align with scoring slumps. I watched pretty much every game, he didn't look to be lacking effort many times to my eyes. I will say though when Rak went down that second line went to sh!t and while that second line overall was producing great, Rak wasn't producing much at all while on it before going down with injury .... Also, Smith was injured around exact same time as Rak, just came back quicker.
- MattStrat

It's speculative when people like us or even someone like Ryan Wilson says it. But the discussion on Smith is largely coming from people who are around the team a lot and have built up plenty of relationships with people to know what's going on. Now while guys like Madden and Rossi have been known to stretch the truth, Yohe has a pretty clean reputation as do some of the others reporting this.

Damnit. Everything about this game tonight is so annoying. Praying the Cats can suffocate the Oilers one more time tonight.

I’m not opposed to trading the guy, but you have to get a forward back of the same value. Laine on paper seems great, but I don’t think he’s the guy.
- Grinder47

I think Laine and Sullivan is a terrible match. Laine might be a good gamble for someone but since Sullivan is our coach it shouldn’t be us. If Sully hated Phil he’s gonna hate a guy that gives even less defensively and a lot less on offense even more.

I have to disagree on this not being an impressive free agent group, at the moment at least. There are 57, 42, 40, a couple 30 goal scorers, a pile of 20+ goal scorers.
Top wingers/centers on the market:

Top 6 C/W - Stamkos, Guentzel, Reinhart, Marchessault, Duchene, Necas (RFA but available), Lindholm, Kane.

Top 9 C/W - Monahan, Drouin, Toffoli, Tarasenko, Reravainen, Bertuzzi, Domi, Henrique, Perron, Stephenson.

Other good players that could go at a discount - Mantha, Duclair, Sprong, Foegele, DeBrusk, Zucker, Joshua, Roslovic, Wenneberg, Arvidsson.
- MacPatty

Def some good names in there.

Def some good names in there.
- 10inchTerror

Tons of those guys are probably already silently spoken for

I think Laine and Sullivan is a terrible match. Laine might be a good gamble for someone but since Sullivan is our coach it shouldn’t be us. If Sully hated Phil he’s gonna hate a guy that gives even less defensively and a lot less on offense even more.
- Victoro311

Stop reminding me that Sullivan is coach indefinite of this team. Takes the wind right out of my sails.

I think Laine and Sullivan is a terrible match. Laine might be a good gamble for someone but since Sullivan is our coach it shouldn’t be us. If Sully hated Phil he’s gonna hate a guy that gives even less defensively and a lot less on offense even more.
- Victoro311

Sully also just hates anyone with a personality. I don't know if Laine has one.

I think Laine and Sullivan is a terrible match. Laine might be a good gamble for someone but since Sullivan is our coach it shouldn’t be us. If Sully hated Phil he’s gonna hate a guy that gives even less defensively and a lot less on offense even more.
- Victoro311

I agree with all of this... But still think they should aim for him hahaha

It's speculative when people like us or even someone like Ryan Wilson says it. But the discussion on Smith is largely coming from people who are around the team a lot and have built up plenty of relationships with people to know what's going on. Now while guys like Madden and Rossi have been known to stretch the truth, Yohe has a pretty clean reputation as do some of the others reporting this.
- Tojo.

Yeah Yohe probably seems the best of the bunch to me. Even if it is true I think he's extra motivated this coming season, regardless.

Bs and Sens wheeling and dealing on the night of the game 7 final... Ullmark is a Sen