I agree with what you said in first paragraph. However, there wasn't really a comparison as I said if you ask about the Leafs the answer would most likely be no in relation to can you win a cup with 3 players making 35% or more of the cap.
- MattStrat

Yeah, I guess I was just saying that Edmonton shows that you potentially can win stacked and the reason it is a no for the Leafs is because their 3 guys taking up that cap space arent good enough players for the money.

I think the Leafs are going to find a Marner trade. They keep saying they arent looking to trade him but I think it is pretty obvious they need to. When Nylander of all players calls out how soft you are in the playoffs, you know there is a problem.

The problem with the Leafs comparison is that while Matthews is on that McDavid/Draisaitl level, Marner definitely is not and neither is Nylander. I think Tavares and Nurse are a wash in terms of bad contracts.

I think Draiaitl is long gone in free agency. He will be able to get north of $13M in a lot more desirable locations/teams.
- MacPatty

Tavares is good at hockey, Nurse is bad at hockey -- those contracts definitely aren't a wash in the world of bad contracts lol

The Pens didn't win those last two cups until Sid and Geno's contracts became great deals as the cap went up. Yeah... The Iggy year could have been a winner, but most of those teams didn't have enough depth. Lots of factors involved, but the Pens struggled with depth after the 09 cup. Plus, Sid got under the wire with a cap circumvention deal.

IDK....
- madmike71

In 2015/2016 the salary cap was 71.4 mill....Sid (8.7), Geno (9.5) and Tanger (7.5) had a combined cap hit of 25.7 which would have been 35% of their cap. In 2016/2017 the max cap was 73 mill so they took up just shy of that...and one of them didn't play a single playoff game haha
- MattStrat

You both have good points. In the not too distant past, when Chicago was able to lock in their top players on value contracts, they were the best team in the league. Meanwhile the Pens were paying top dollar on theirs and couldn't get to the finals.

Then the Pens didn't pay much more because Sid didn't raise the cap while other teams like Chicago has to pay up and the Pens had an advantage again that gave them a little more room.

The asterisk is that if you are paying a few guys a lot, then you have to find cheap value elsewhere. Pens got a ton from their farm those years from their minors with Guentzel, Rust, Sheary, Maatta, Dumoulin, and Murray pitching in significantly on entry level contracts.

Point being it's much harder to open windows to win while you are paying 3-4 guys a significant percentage of your cap. But not impossible if you can find value elsewhere like minors, deadline trades, free agent bargains, etc.

Booz Allen rang the bell today. Did you do the honors? Haha.
- Thunderbolt

Yeah man, threw a football all the way over here from San Diego to Wall Street like Uncle Rico and rang that thing!

That would be really hard to do after being one win away from the Cup. I'd be surprised, I'd expect them to load up as best they can next year. I'm not saying you might not be right, I just don't see it happening.
- Tojo.

You're probably right. The logical side of my brain tells me you can't let a player like that walk for nothing. If he refuses to extend this summer, you already know he's leaving.

You could get a mix of young, really good roster players, top prospects and high picks for him.

That Ullmark deal was pretty interesting to see. When I first heard it I thought it was a steal for Ottawa but its really going to hinge on them re-signing him to a reasonable extension.

A late first, a bad contract (less $1M retained) & a bottom 6 player for a top goalie is good value.

For Boston, I'd bet they have another deal lined up they wanted to use that 1st for. The buyout for Korpisalo isn't all that bad... I think they will see if they can get his game back on track this year, but they could just end up buying him out right away.

For anyone wanting to trade Jarry (Im kind of in that boat), this leaves one less destination. Not even sure who is really left...

Toronto is going to do something. Could be a spot for Jarry but I think they should be going all in for Saros if he is available.

Buffallo has Luukkonen who had a really good season, not sure if Jarry is a guy they would want unless they are getting rid of a salary along the way.

Does Detroit want a bridge to Cossa? No idea.

Does San Jose want to tank for one more top pick or do they want to start building a team?

Mrazek was actually pretty decent for Chicago this year, but they might want to have a tandem if they are going to try to build something with Bedard.
- MacPatty

Detroit would absolutely be interested in Jarry depending on cost and cap they can send back.

If they can't sign him, they have to trade him now. They would get max value this summer.
- madmike71

They’ll be fine. Especially if the cap rises again.

Tavares is good at hockey, Nurse is bad at hockey -- those contracts definitely aren't a wash in the world of bad contracts lol
- j.boyd919

That Nurse contract is peak Ken Holland

They’ll be fine. Especially if the cap rises again.
- Feds91Stammer

That's if he wants to stay. I've read discussions about players not wanting to play in Canada. I have no idea. It's an interesting situation with those guys needing deals soon.

You both have good points. In the not too distant past, when Chicago was able to lock in their top players on value contracts, they were the best team in the league. Meanwhile the Pens were paying top dollar on theirs and couldn't get to the finals.

Then the Pens didn't pay much more because Sid didn't raise the cap while other teams like Chicago has to pay up and the Pens had an advantage again that gave them a little more room.

The asterisk is that if you are paying a few guys a lot, then you have to find cheap value elsewhere. Pens got a ton from their farm those years from their minors with Guentzel, Rust, Sheary, Maatta, Dumoulin, and Murray pitching in significantly on entry level contracts.

Point being it's much harder to open windows to win while you are paying 3-4 guys a significant percentage of your cap. But not impossible if you can find value elsewhere like minors, deadline trades, free agent bargains, etc.
- Tojo.

Of course you need others contributing and quality guys on ELC's...that matters for pretty much every team that wins the cup....The Bolts are another team in regards to this that we haven't mentioned. They had 3 forwards (Kuch, Stammer, Point) and a defensemen (Hedman) taking up 40% of their cap in their last cup win haha...they did have Kuch on LTIR until postseason, though haha...but refresh my memory what they did with that space? I think Coleman, who had 11 points in 23 games, was part of it....who else?

That's if he wants to stay. I've read discussions about players not wanting to play in Canada. I have no idea. It's an interesting situation with those guys needing deals soon.
- madmike71

Thats why non-Canadian elites like Matthews, Pettersen, B. Tkchuck, Draisaitl, J.T Miller, Hughes and I'd probably toss Stützle in there too all extended to stay in Canada ...that's overblown BS. Thats just top notch dudes.

Thats why non-Canadian elites like Matthews, Pettersen, B. Tkchuck, Draisaitl, J.T Miller, Hughes and I'd probably toss Stützle in there too all extended to stay in Canada ...that's overblown BS. Thats just top notch dudes.
- MattStrat

All of the players in question there were still under team control when signing extensions except for Miller. And the Canucks had to pay BIG to keep him. Same for Huberdeau in Calgary. Ottawa has signed guys early to bigger than deserved deals to lock guys in. Montreal the same a bit. Tavares was like a top 20 player who got a top 10 contract to go to the Leafs. Nylander, Marner both signed well above their values.

Alberta has an income tax advantage vs the rest of Canada but Edmonton is just not a great place to live. Same with Winnipeg.

There are just way better places to live than Canada, especially if you are working on multimillion dollar guaranteed contracts. Heck, Im Canadian and I've started discussing relocating the the US with my work recently because I'd rather live somewhere warmer all year and I am sick of paying insane taxes for benefits I don't see the advantage of. Imagine if you were a hockey player with no local ties...

That's if he wants to stay. I've read discussions about players not wanting to play in Canada. I have no idea. It's an interesting situation with those guys needing deals soon.
- madmike71

Very possible he wants to team up with fellow German superstar Moritz Seider.

Friedman all but confirmed that Jarry is out there and thinks there are active talks.

Thats why non-Canadian elites like Matthews, Pettersen, B. Tkchuck, Draisaitl, J.T Miller, Hughes and I'd probably toss Stützle in there too all extended to stay in Canada ...that's overblown BS. Thats just top notch dudes.
- MattStrat

It may be overblown but the tax and exchange rate stuff is a real thing.

Detroit would absolutely be interested in Jarry depending on cost and cap they can send back.
- Feds91Stammer

What would a good deal for both teams look like to you? I'd be fine with taking Husso back and just buying him out to even some cap hit this season. Where does Berggren fit in? Is he a piece you would let go of? What are your thoughts on Rassumssen?

I'd be fine doing a Husso & Berggren for Jarry & Poulin type of deal.
A straight up Rasmussen for Jarry trade might be good too.

All of the players in question there were still under team control when signing extensions except for Miller. And the Canucks had to pay BIG to keep him. Same for Huberdeau in Calgary. Ottawa has signed guys early to bigger than deserved deals to lock guys in. Montreal the same a bit. Tavares was like a top 20 player who got a top 10 contract to go to the Leafs. Nylander, Marner both signed well above their values.

Alberta has an income tax advantage vs the rest of Canada but Edmonton is just not a great place to live. Same with Winnipeg.

There are just way better places to live than Canada, especially if you are working on multimillion dollar guaranteed contracts. Heck, Im Canadian and I've started discussing relocating the the US with my work recently because I'd rather live somewhere warmer all year and I am sick of paying insane taxes for benefits I don't see the advantage of. Imagine if you were a hockey player with no local ties...
- MacPatty

Dude, if those players really didn't want to play in Canada they would of gotten out no matter if they're RFA or not.

Pay big to keep one of the top 5 players in the league this past season? Shocking. Wasnt even that big compared to his production, really.

I agree about the taxes and weather stuff ya said, though hahah. I will also add there are a lot worse places to live than Canada as well, including a lot of parts of the USA.

It may be overblown but the tax and exchange rate stuff is a real thing.
- Feds91Stammer

Yeah I could see that being a factor for some.

Of course you need others contributing and quality guys on ELC's...that matters for pretty much every team that wins the cup....The Bolts are another team in regards to this that we haven't mentioned. They had 3 forwards (Kuch, Stammer, Point) and a defensemen (Hedman) taking up 40% of their cap in their last cup win haha...they did have Kuch on LTIR until postseason, though haha...but refresh my memory what they did with that space? I think Coleman, who had 11 points in 23 games, was part of it....who else?
- MattStrat

Lol yeah Tampa is such a a crazy outlier with everything they did. Kucherov technically counted 0% against their cap, then they used LTIR some more to add guys like Coleman.

Dude, if those players really didn't want to play in Canada they would of gotten out no matter if they're RFA or not.

Pay big to keep one of the top 5 players in the league this past season? Shocking. Wasnt even that big compared to his production, really.

I agree about the taxes and weather stuff ya said, though hahah. I will also add there are a lot worse places to live than Canada as well, including a lot of parts of the USA.
- MattStrat

I never said players refuse to play here, I am saying that Canadian teams need to pay more to encourage players to come and stay.

Look at Tkachuk, Calgary would have paid him far more than he got from the Panthers but he forced his way out for a lower salary. Miller had a great year, but a year ago everyone was talking about how the Pens shouldnt even take on his contract, let alone trade any assets for him. When he signed that deal, no other team would have paid him within $1.5M AAV, as great a player as he has been.

Mostly cost of living and climate driven, and we havent even begun to talk about how poisonous the Canadian media can be when it comes to hockey.

The NHLPA will never go for it but I think the salary cap needs to be adjusted for local tax basis. I have no idea how they would do it but it creates a massive disadvantage for teams in Canada (especially outside of Alberta) and also other teams in unfavorable tax jurisdictions.

What would a good deal for both teams look like to you? I'd be fine with taking Husso back and just buying him out to even some cap hit this season. Where does Berggren fit in? Is he a piece you would let go of? What are your thoughts on Rassumssen?

I'd be fine doing a Husso & Berggren for Jarry & Poulin type of deal.
A straight up Rasmussen for Jarry trade might be good too.
- MacPatty

I would dump Rasmussen in a heartbeat but they like him.

Berggren requested a trade back in December so I expect him to be gone in the next week.

I would definitely do Husso and Berggren for Jarry and Poulin.

I could see a lot of people in Banff being woke, for sure haha. I had no idea you were close to there. You ski or snowboard much? So f'n lucky to live close to Banff, man...well despite the wokeness hahaha

There's not much wokeness going on here. I find Newfoundland is like a different era in ways. A lot of old fashioned people around. Sure, you will get small groups trying to stop, or cancel this, or that, but it backfires. There was a very small group of people trying to get a local fashion designers store to take down their skinny manikins in their shop display window because of body shaming or some poop and it totally blew up in their face. This made a lot of people angry and most of the population and social medias turned it around on them. Sent them packing with their tail between their legs hahahah

Seriously though, in real life, like people you're legit friends and family with, neighbours with, how many of them are really "woke"? I know an awful lot of people and I think maybe one or two I would call woke.
- MattStrat

Yeah it’s pretty bad. I’ve stopped talking to a few people I know because overnight they became woke knobs. Last year there was a protest on Main Street in Canmore where like 50 people picketed about the amount of land used for corn.. in the states. I think just too many rich people with nothing better to do than take up bs causes. Why can’t they rage about real issues around the world like the pens bottom 6, or about McD not deserving the cup, or about doc still being on the team.

I would dump Rasmussen in a heartbeat but they like him.

Berggren requested a trade back in December so I expect him to be gone in the next week.

I would definitely do Husso and Berggren for Jarry and Poulin.
- Feds91Stammer

What's the story with Berggren? He does seem like he deserves more of a shot.

Thats why non-Canadian elites like Matthews, Pettersen, B. Tkchuck, Draisaitl, J.T Miller, Hughes and I'd probably toss Stützle in there too all extended to stay in Canada ...that's overblown BS. Thats just top notch dudes.
- MattStrat

This was a discussion I heard (briefly) on the NHL Network on Sirius/XM. I have no idea who these guys were, but one guy said something like "let's face it, Canadian teams have to pay more to keep their talent". "Some guys don't want to play in Canada." Honestly, I don't even follow other teams much. I just thought a small market team like the Oil might have problems keeping their big 3.

I never said players refuse to play here, I am saying that Canadian teams need to pay more to encourage players to come and stay.

Look at Tkachuk, Calgary would have paid him far more than he got from the Panthers but he forced his way out for a lower salary. Miller had a great year, but a year ago everyone was talking about how the Pens shouldnt even take on his contract, let alone trade any assets for him. When he signed that deal, no other team would have paid him within $1.5M AAV, as great a player as he has been.

Mostly cost of living and climate driven, and we havent even begun to talk about how poisonous the Canadian media can be when it comes to hockey.

The NHLPA will never go for it but I think the salary cap needs to be adjusted for local tax basis. I have no idea how they would do it but it creates a massive disadvantage for teams in Canada (especially outside of Alberta) and also other teams in unfavorable tax jurisdictions.
- MacPatty

What happened with Tkachuk also happens with American teams too, man. Players want to get out of the American team they are playing for. This is also a thing.

Every single person here wanted JT Miller on the Pens when there were rumours about it while Hex was GM. Maybe you were an outlier but I cant remember anyone being against it.

The hockey media can be quite poisonous in bigger USA markets, as well ie NYC.

Disadvantages... maybe....but 4 of the top 10 teams in the regular season were Canadian and one of them was 2 goals away from the cup this season...when only 7 of the 32 teams are Canadian...