Kinda puts Marner's demands into perspective, dinnit?
- Atomic Wedgie

dont follow basketball close, but assume much higher cap and only have to pay it to 12 or so players instead of 24.

hard to compare.. and also the money each league makes

Bet Jack Campbell wishes he got one of those
- Whipper

Another fantastic example of giving a goalie who hasn't played a full season as a successful starter way too much money for way too much term.

Meanwhile, Skinner makes 2.6 AAV.

But Woll is worth 4?

Idiocy.

dont follow basketball close, but assume much higher cap and only have to pay it to 12 or so players instead of 24.

hard to compare.. and also the money each league makes
- senstroll

And basketball bench players are barely used by comparison to NHL players.

McDavid might play 25 minutes out of 60.

An NBA star player is playing 40 minutes out of 48.

man Spain looks like bananas running on the field.

Another fantastic example of giving a goalie who hasn't played a full season as a successful starter way too much money for way too much term.

Meanwhile, Skinner makes 2.6 AAV.

But Woll is worth 4?

Idiocy.
- Rare_Jewel

and that on the high end

hindsight is nice to have isn't it.

and that on the high end

hindsight is nice to have isn't it.
- dmnted

It's not hindsight. Everybody using reason could see it as it happened.

Woll is worth, at most, 3 x 2.5 for the "potential" he can be a starter.

Basically more than double his ELC. But not a penny more until he can prove he can be a healthy successful starter.

It's not hindsight. Everybody using reason could see it as it happened.

Woll is worth, at most, 3 x 2.5 for the "potential" he can be a starter.

Basically more than double his ELC. But not a penny more until he can prove he can be a healthy successful starter.
- Rare_Jewel

well there is a bit of difference, higher cap and buying out UFA years for Woll.

ill wait to freak out until I see the actual numbers

If Woll signs an extension at what is being reported (3.5M - 4M x 3 years).....

Feels like to much to me based on what he has done so far, especially when you factor in that he would be an RFA end of the season so still team controlled.

I'd feel better about it if he had at least 100 Games of NHL experience and had a season he didn't get hurt in.

well there is a bit of difference, higher cap and buying out UFA years for Woll.

ill wait to freak out until I see the actual numbers
- senstroll

UFA years only matter if the player has proven he can play in the NHL.

Thus far, he hasn't proven he's a regular NHLer.

He's proven he's a part-time back-up with more games lost to injuries than games played.

It's not hindsight. Everybody using reason could see it as it happened.

Woll is worth, at most, 3 x 2.5 for the "potential" he can be a starter.

Basically more than double his ELC. But not a penny more until he can prove he can be a healthy successful starter.
- Rare_Jewel

Look at Carter Hart contract or what was his contract.
730k rookie ELC contract to having 3.979M cap hit on his next contract.

UFA years only matter if the player has proven he can play in the NHL.

Thus far, he hasn't proven he's a regular NHLer.

He's proven he's a part-time back-up with more games lost to injuries than games played.
- Rare_Jewel

but thats not how it works in reality. you have to pay more to get a player to sign over UFA years... vs rfa.

man Spain looks like bananas running on the field.
- dmnted

I'm watching Italy, hoping they choke out. Spain are fast and will take some beating.

but thats not how it works in reality. you have to pay more to get a player to sign over UFA years... vs rfa.
- senstroll

In reality, being a UFA only matters if multiple teams are throwing money at you.

He can be a UFA who plays 20 games a season and nobody is going to give him more than a 1 year deal to prove he can stay healthy.

Like I said, it literally makes no difference if he's not a proven regular NHLer.

In reality, being a UFA only matters if multiple teams are throwing money at you.

He can be a UFA who plays 20 games a season and nobody is going to give him more than a 1 year deal to prove he can stay healthy.

Like I said, it literally makes no difference if he's not a proven regular NHLer.
- Rare_Jewel

I get that it doesnt make a difference to Rare_Jewel internet poster on hockeybuzz. but thats not the real world

Look at Carter Hart contract or what was his contract.
730k rookie ELC contract to having 3.979M cap hit on his next contract.
- dmnted

Hart played 101 games and 14 playoff games (won a playoff series too).

Woll has 45 TOTAL games, including playoffs. And always injured.

I get that it doesnt make a difference to Rare_Jewel internet poster on hockeybuzz. but thats not the real world
- senstroll

List the goalies who became UFAs without proving they're healthy, regular, successful starting goalies who got the kind of money Woll would be getting from the Leafs.

In the real world. Do it.

"On this day in 2006, the Maple Leafs acquired Andrew Raycroft from the Bruins in exchange for Tuukka Rask"

but thats not how it works in reality. you have to pay more to get a player to sign over UFA years... vs rfa.
- senstroll

The point there is also accurate. You don't have to pay more to get a mediocre player as a UFA. You're right - you have to pay more to get a good player.

At this point Woll's UFA years should have no substantial value because he's never even started more than 23 games in a season. He may have some decent underlying numbers in his few starts but the sample size is just way too small to say - and that sample size hasn't been limited by lack of opportunity granted, it's been limited by Woll's own inability to stay healthy which even kept him on the Marlies for longer than was expected by the parent club.

At a certain age you stop paying for potential, and I have to think by the time a guy is 27, you're no longer paying for who you hope he'll be but are paying for who he is.

Because he's only 25 he does have a couple of years here to change that stock, but to me the point is that as of right _now_ he hasn't established enough value to demand a greater pay grade for his UFA years.

Rather bet on a 25 year old who is trending up vs a 34 year old, who was very inconsistent in Vancouver and makes 6m

I'm watching Italy, hoping they choke out. Spain are fast and will take some beating.
- Drapz

I don't want either country to advance but one of them will.

List the goalies who became UFAs without proving they're healthy, regular, successful starting goalies who got the kind of money Woll would be getting from the Leafs.

In the real world. Do it.
- Rare_Jewel

this makes no sense. thats not whats happening here.
im not interested in your straw man nonsense.

im sure there are examples of goalies who signed deals for ~4% cap while giving up a couple UFA years.

Leafs are betting on potential it seems. again assuming the numbers reported are accurate.

also...my first response was...it sounds high...but not lose your poop over...high

The point there is also accurate. You don't have to pay more to get a mediocre player as a UFA. You're right - you have to pay more to get a good player.

At this point Woll's UFA years should have no substantial value because he's never even started more than 23 games in a season. He may have some decent underlying numbers in his few starts but the sample size is just way too small to say - and that sample size hasn't been limited by lack of opportunity granted, it's been limited by Woll's own inability to stay healthy which even kept him on the Marlies for longer than was expected by the parent club.

At a certain age you stop paying for potential, and I have to think by the time a guy is 27, you're no longer paying for who you hope he'll be but are paying for who he is.

Because he's only 25 he does have a couple of years here to change that stock, but to me the point is that as of right _now_ he hasn't established enough value to demand a greater pay grade for his UFA years.
- Monkeypunk

The Law listed some goalies that signed for 3-3.5M with 50 games of NHL experience.

I’ve been outspoken on my belief in Woll. I’d also say the reward is quite high here since he has shown he’s capable of being a difference maker in games.

3.5-4M is 26-27th highest paid for goalies right now. In a few years it’ll be around 30.

If Woll is the 30th best goalie in the league by then then you come out of this even.

The leafs are betting on his health, there’s zero doubt in my mind that he will be in the upper half of the league in terms of on ice value.

Have to make gambles, it’s something I wish Dubas did with his 3 amigos. At least one of them.

List the goalies who became UFAs without proving they're healthy, regular, successful starting goalies who got the kind of money Woll would be getting from the Leafs.

In the real world. Do it.
- Rare_Jewel

If he's poop or wonky this year then it's a bad gamble.

If he goes out has a good year and establishes himself as the #1 then it's a good gamble. Next summer he has arb rights and wouldve been heading into his final year of control. So next summer they would've had to give him 3.5+ at arb or if they tried to buy UFA years at that time they would've cost a lot more.

It was a gamble either way ..they are betting on him. Not sure I would have done it bu they know more about his injuries then I do.

"On this day in 2006, the Maple Leafs acquired Andrew Raycroft from the Bruins in exchange for Tuukka Rask"
- Fakepartofme

I was golfing with my Dad and we got the news in the clubhouse after. We were both like ..who cares ..we have Pogge!

If he's poop or wonky this year then it's a bad gamble.

If he goes out has a good year and establishes himself as the #1 then it's a good gamble. Next summer he has arb rights and wouldve been heading into his final year of control. So next summer they would've had to give him 3.5+ at arb or if they tried to buy UFA years at that time they would've cost a lot more.

It was a gamble either way ..they are betting on him. Not sure I would have done it bu they know more about his injuries then I do.
- The Law

At his age, given his injury history, that's a bad gamble.

You give him a 2 year deal at 2 AAV and treat him as the back-up he is.

If he proves more than that, you pay him for it when he PROVES he's worth it.

As I said earlier, UFA years mean nothing when he's not a regular NHLer yet.