Tell me about how its gonna be in the playoffs now because idgaf what they do until then.
- fifty__missions

Exactly.

Edit. But I do like the entertainment
factor in an 82 game season. So for me, that’s up there as well.

Giveaways/60 and Takeaways/60 since 2017 minimum of 200 games played:

Mathew Barzal Gv/60: 3.81; Tk/60: 2.6. Net: -1.21
David Pastrnak Gv/60: 3.58; Tk/60: 1.9. Net: -1.68
Jack Hughes Gv/60: 3.51; Tk/60: 2.77. Net: -0.74
Ryan Getzlaf Gv/60: 3.45; Tk/60: 2.3. Net: -1.15
Evgeni Malkin Gv/60: 3.42; Tk/60: 3.27. Net: -0.15
Leon Draisaitl Gv/60: 3.38; Tk/60: 2.61. Net: -0.77
Brad Marchand Gv/60: 3.1; Tk/60: 2.09. Net: -1.01
Johnny Gaudreau Gv/60: 3.1; Tk/60: 1.76. Net: -1.34
Nikita Kucherov Gv/60: 3.1; Tk/60: 2.01. Net: -1.09
Jonathan Huberdeau Gv/60: 3.07; Tk/60: 2. Net: -1.07
Andrei Svechnikov Gv/60: 2.97; Tk/60: 1.67. Net: -1.3
Matthew Tkachuk Gv/60: 2.87; Tk/60: 1.6. Net: -1.27
Martin Necas Gv/60: 2.84; Tk/60: 1.49. Net: -1.35
Mitch Marner Gv/60: 2.8; Tk/60: 3.04. Net: 0.24
Filip Forsberg Gv/60: 2.77; Tk/60: 2.76. Net: -0.01
Trevor Zegras Gv/60: 2.77; Tk/60: 1.46. Net: -1.31
Josh Bailey Gv/60: 2.76; Tk/60: 1.65. Net: -1.11
Artemi Panarin Gv/60: 2.72; Tk/60: 1.79. Net: -0.93
Ryan McLeod Gv/60: 2.72; Tk/60: 2.58. Net: -0.14
Jason Spezza Gv/60: 2.7; Tk/60: 1.57. Net: -1.13
Connor McDavid Gv/60: 2.66; Tk/60: 2.74. Net: 0.08


There is a lot of goddamned talent in that list. By the way in that list there are two players who have more takeaways than giveaways. I'll give you a hint, they're numbers 1 & 2 on this list:

Most Primary Assists/60 since 2017, minimum 200 games:

Mitch Marner, A1/60: 1.27
Connor McDavid, A1/60: 1.2
Nathan MacKinnon, A1/60: 1.18
Artemi Panarin, A1/60: 1.1
Johnny Gaudreau, A1/60: 1.1
Robert Thomas, A1/60: 1.1
Nikita Kucherov, A1/60: 1.08
Jakub Voracek, A1/60: 1.04
Leon Draisaitl, A1/60: 1.04
Steven Stamkos, A1/60: 1.03
Max Domi, A1/60: 1.02
Sidney Crosby, A1/60: 1.01
David Krejci, A1/60: 1
Mark Stone, A1/60: 1
Evgeni Malkin, A1/60: 0.99
Jonathan Huberdeau, A1/60: 0.98
Mathew Barzal, A1/60: 0.96
David Pastrnak, A1/60: 0.96
Elias Pettersson, A1/60: 0.95
Kirill Kaprizov, A1/60: 0.95

So. Yes. He is a (frank)ing wizard with the puck. Knock it off.
- Monkeypunk

‘The Limits of Analytics’

Hey man - not sure that was impactful as you think. I do appreciate the work though and I do like your posts (stats) for the most part.

My issue with being inundated with pure numbers is that it doesn’t tell a story. The claim he is a wizard would lead me to believe that all those apples you point out in the stats were absolutely beauty passes. Watching all 82 games a year - so watching the game vs looking at numbers - I see about 15 unreal passes that very few in the league can make. So to put up a lot of number crunching and then say it makes him a wizard with the puck is not necessarily accurate. It makes him a guy that gets a boatload of assists…he is a good passer and creative passer for sure but not this wizard who make extraordinary passes with each game.

He also benefits from playing primarily with the best goal scorer in the NHL. Now, 34 benefits too - but he has scored with anybody and proven that from Babs years to last year with Bert and Domi. It’s a matter of probably 6-9 more a season.

My primarily points comparison was Willy vs Mitch since 2016.

You haven’t changed my mind. So knock it off.

You know who else was predictable?

Gretzky.

He’d just always take the puck behind the net on powerplays…
- Atomic Wedgie

Haha. Gretzky and Mitchy - 2 peas in a pod.

I look at that and think if Domi played with Auston and Mitch with Domi's linemates than Domi would have the better numbers
- jribout

Yes he would

Giveaways/60 and Takeaways/60 since 2017 minimum of 200 games played:

Mathew Barzal Gv/60: 3.81; Tk/60: 2.6. Net: -1.21
David Pastrnak Gv/60: 3.58; Tk/60: 1.9. Net: -1.68
Jack Hughes Gv/60: 3.51; Tk/60: 2.77. Net: -0.74
Ryan Getzlaf Gv/60: 3.45; Tk/60: 2.3. Net: -1.15
Evgeni Malkin Gv/60: 3.42; Tk/60: 3.27. Net: -0.15
Leon Draisaitl Gv/60: 3.38; Tk/60: 2.61. Net: -0.77
Brad Marchand Gv/60: 3.1; Tk/60: 2.09. Net: -1.01
Johnny Gaudreau Gv/60: 3.1; Tk/60: 1.76. Net: -1.34
Nikita Kucherov Gv/60: 3.1; Tk/60: 2.01. Net: -1.09
Jonathan Huberdeau Gv/60: 3.07; Tk/60: 2. Net: -1.07
Andrei Svechnikov Gv/60: 2.97; Tk/60: 1.67. Net: -1.3
Matthew Tkachuk Gv/60: 2.87; Tk/60: 1.6. Net: -1.27
Martin Necas Gv/60: 2.84; Tk/60: 1.49. Net: -1.35
Mitch Marner Gv/60: 2.8; Tk/60: 3.04. Net: 0.24
Filip Forsberg Gv/60: 2.77; Tk/60: 2.76. Net: -0.01
Trevor Zegras Gv/60: 2.77; Tk/60: 1.46. Net: -1.31
Josh Bailey Gv/60: 2.76; Tk/60: 1.65. Net: -1.11
Artemi Panarin Gv/60: 2.72; Tk/60: 1.79. Net: -0.93
Ryan McLeod Gv/60: 2.72; Tk/60: 2.58. Net: -0.14
Jason Spezza Gv/60: 2.7; Tk/60: 1.57. Net: -1.13
Connor McDavid Gv/60: 2.66; Tk/60: 2.74. Net: 0.08


There is a lot of goddamned talent in that list. By the way in that list there are two players who have more takeaways than giveaways. I'll give you a hint, they're numbers 1 & 2 on this list:

Most Primary Assists/60 since 2017, minimum 200 games:

Mitch Marner, A1/60: 1.27
Connor McDavid, A1/60: 1.2
Nathan MacKinnon, A1/60: 1.18
Artemi Panarin, A1/60: 1.1
Johnny Gaudreau, A1/60: 1.1
Robert Thomas, A1/60: 1.1
Nikita Kucherov, A1/60: 1.08
Jakub Voracek, A1/60: 1.04
Leon Draisaitl, A1/60: 1.04
Steven Stamkos, A1/60: 1.03
Max Domi, A1/60: 1.02
Sidney Crosby, A1/60: 1.01
David Krejci, A1/60: 1
Mark Stone, A1/60: 1
Evgeni Malkin, A1/60: 0.99
Jonathan Huberdeau, A1/60: 0.98
Mathew Barzal, A1/60: 0.96
David Pastrnak, A1/60: 0.96
Elias Pettersson, A1/60: 0.95
Kirill Kaprizov, A1/60: 0.95

So. Yes. He is a (frank)ing wizard with the puck. Knock it off.
- Monkeypunk

Mitch is (frank)ing awesome.

I love watching his haters bail out their little boats of hate, spring little hate leaks all over the place.

Mitch is (frank)ing awesome.

I love watching his haters bail out their little boats of hate, spring little hate leaks all over the place.
- Horsey Sauce

So angry. Temper temper.

So angry. Temper temper.
- Big23Questions

Cool as a cumcumber, vibing with my cat watching some alien show on the discovery channel.

You have it out for me today, eh?

Relaaaaax bro! Catch some waves 🤙🏻

I look at that and think if Domi played with Auston and Mitch with Domi's linemates than Domi would have the better numbers
- jribout

Max Domi is a fantastic puck distributor. He was two later than McDavid on the giveaways list - but his net takeaways - giveaways was -0.64. We did see a lot of that with Domi last year. I like him but accept the flaws in his game because of the good things he does. He is very poor defensively. Marner wasn't getting Selke votes because of media press or anything else. He's an effective defender. He has been worse in the past two years and he does seem slower in the past two years. I would sincerely guess it's a nagging injury because he's too young to be slowing down physically.

If Domi played with Matthews maybe he does put up similar numbers although it's not like McDavid didn't just turn Hyman into a 57 goal scorer and Marner has better numbers than McDavid at primary assists.

Mitch Marner isn't a byproduct of Auston Matthews. They help each other.

And I am not saying Marner doesn't have his flaws - we know he does - but I am saying the amount of poop being heaped on him in here lately is very unfair and inaccurate.

Cool as a cumcumber, vibing with my cat watching some alien show on the discovery channel.

You have it out for me today, eh?

Relaaaaax bro! Catch some waves 🤙🏻
- Horsey Sauce

Nah man - I can usually just laugh off your insane Willy/Mitch stuff and not comment but I guess it’s just been a bit much last couple day is all.

You do seem intense though man - the Mitch! Post was super intense. Try to take it easy.

Max Domi is a fantastic puck distributor. He was two later than McDavid on the giveaways list - but his net takeaways - giveaways was -0.64. We did see a lot of that with Domi last year. I like him but accept the flaws in his game because of the good things he does. He is very poor defensively. Marner wasn't getting Selke votes because of media press or anything else. He's an effective defender. He has been worse in the past two years and he does seem slower in the past two years. I would sincerely guess it's a nagging injury because he's too young to be slowing down physically.

If Domi played with Matthews maybe he does put up similar numbers although it's not like McDavid didn't just turn Hyman into a 57 goal scorer and Marner has better numbers than McDavid at primary assists.

Mitch Marner isn't a byproduct of Auston Matthews. They help each other.

And I am not saying Marner doesn't have his flaws - we know he does - but I am saying the amount of poop being heaped on him in here lately is very unfair and inaccurate.
- Monkeypunk

34 helps Mitch substantially more - 34 scored with Hyman Brown Kapenen Johnsson Domi Bert Nylander Marner - doesn’t matter he scores.

Matthews in Philly gets 50 goals. Marner on Philly gets 75-80pts

‘The Limits of Analytics’

Hey man - not sure that was impactful as you think. I do appreciate the work though and I do like your posts (stats) for the most part.

My issue with being inundated with pure numbers is that it doesn’t tell a story. The claim he is a wizard would lead me to believe that all those apples you point out in the stats were absolutely beauty passes. Watching all 82 games a year - so watching the game vs looking at numbers - I see about 15 unreal passes that very few in the league can make. So to put up a lot of number crunching and then say it makes him a wizard with the puck is not necessarily accurate. It makes him a guy that gets a boatload of assists…he is a good passer and creative passer for sure but not this wizard who make extraordinary passes with each game.

He also benefits from playing primarily with the best goal scorer in the NHL. Now, 34 benefits too - but he has scored with anybody and proven that from Babs years to last year with Bert and Domi. It’s a matter of probably 6-9 more a season.

My primarily points comparison was Willy vs Mitch since 2016.

You haven’t changed my mind. So knock it off.
- Big23Questions

You're a Detroit fan pissing in a Leaf board and have been for months.

Mitch Marner did a lot of that without Matthews as his winger, but you'll ignore that. Godsakes everyone - Bert and Domi were with Matthews for like 45 days. They gave up a (frank)ton of goals but scored a bunch more. That is an even less sustainable style of hockey in the playoffs than the one everyone wants to change by someone trading Marner.

By the way that's not even (frank)ing analytics you twat. Those are basic hockey stats.

That ^^ is math which you and I both learned in grade 6.

Max Domi is a fantastic puck distributor. He was two later than McDavid on the giveaways list - but his net takeaways - giveaways was -0.64. We did see a lot of that with Domi last year. I like him but accept the flaws in his game because of the good things he does. He is very poor defensively. Marner wasn't getting Selke votes because of media press or anything else. He's an effective defender. He has been worse in the past two years and he does seem slower in the past two years. I would sincerely guess it's a nagging injury because he's too young to be slowing down physically.

If Domi played with Matthews maybe he does put up similar numbers although it's not like McDavid didn't just turn Hyman into a 57 goal scorer and Marner has better numbers than McDavid at primary assists.

Mitch Marner isn't a byproduct of Auston Matthews. They help each other.

And I am not saying Marner doesn't have his flaws - we know he does - but I am saying the amount of poop being heaped on him in here lately is very unfair and inaccurate.
- Monkeypunk

McDavid creates a ton of space for everyone else on the ice. Marner if anything is given a ton of space which allows team to take away space from Matthews.

Jesus. More of this stuff?! Really?! 🤯🤦‍♂️

Wish this site had a hide function so dont need to wade through the obligatory verbal fellatio of a player egofest every bloody blog

You're a Detroit fan pissing in a Leaf board and have been for months.

Mitch Marner did a lot of that without Matthews as his winger, but you'll ignore that. Godsakes everyone - Bert and Domi were with Matthews for like 45 days. They gave up a (frank)ton of goals but scored a bunch more. That is an even less sustainable style of hockey in the playoffs than the one everyone wants to change by someone trading Marner.

By the way that's not even (frank)ing analytics you twat. Those are basic hockey stats.

That ^^ is math which you and I both learned in grade 6.
- Monkeypunk

Now do Nylander playing with Matthews over the last 2-3 years. I have not been able to find the stats but the articles suggested they were elite. Top in GF vs GA during the stretch they played together 2 years ago.

So why isn't Liljegren somewhere else? This guy is the weakest link on the team. A waste of $3M a year.

Jesus. More of this stuff?! Really?! 🤯🤦‍♂️

Wish this site had a hide function so dont need to wade through the obligatory berbal fellatio of a player egofest every bloody blog
- Roadrunner75

There’s some Marner lovers and some Marner haters. They tend to forget that their opinion is correct to some, and incorrect to others.

So why isn't Liljegren somewhere else? This guy is the weakest link on the team. A waste of $3M a year.
- PrinceLH

I think he might end up part of a trade honestly

34 helps Mitch substantially more - 34 scored with Hyman Brown Kapenen Johnsson Domi Bert Nylander Marner - doesn’t matter he scores.

Matthews in Philly gets 50 goals. Marner on Philly gets 75-80pts
- Big23Questions

https://www.statmuse.com/...s-without-austin-matthews

Mitchell Marner has 16 goals, 48 assists and a plus-minus of +16 in 54 games without Auston Matthews in his career.

There’s some Marner lovers and some Marner haters. They tend to forget that their opinion is correct to some, and incorrect to others.
- Dozzer

Oh I think the Marner haters are smart enough not to engage. There are some that just get fed up with the Marner BS er(s).

There’s some Marner lovers and some Marner haters. They tend to forget that their opinion is correct to some, and incorrect to others.
- Dozzer

I get that but holy hell. Every blog its the same thing and opinion gets in as fact. Like that flogged horse isnt even a pulpy pile of goo at this point. Sheeesh.

McDavid creates a ton of space for everyone else on the ice. Marner if anything is given a ton of space which allows team to take away space from Matthews.
- jribout

So your contention is that Marner is given a bunch of space because they are taking space away from Matthews and despite that Marner still feeds Matthews the puck so much that he had 69 goals - the most since anyone in 1992?

Just so we're clear - Matthews has a great shot, is excellent with the puck and is a big guy who wins a lot of puck battles. He's also got excellent vision, great hockey sense, and is an insanely good passer as well. Mitch Marner does not possess a great shot, is excellent with the puck, doesn't win a lot of head-to-head puck battles, but does win a lot battles for the puck. He has excellent vision, great hockey sense and is an insanely good passer.

Marner is probably the second most talented player, behind Matthews, to don the Leaf jersey. It's preposterous to me that people want to run him out of town. Max Domi is a great player, but you know what? On the open market Domi isn't fetching more than $5m from the most desperate of teams - but there are teams who would already be willing to pay Marner $12m.

There just isn't a real comparison here.

34 helps Mitch substantially more - 34 scored with Hyman Brown Kapenen Johnsson Domi Bert Nylander Marner - doesn’t matter he scores.

Matthews in Philly gets 50 goals. Marner on Philly gets 75-80pts
- Big23Questions

And statistically speaking, at least for last year, you are saying Matthews would have a greater reduction in output than Marner, if they played for Philly.

So weird flex.

And statistically speaking, at least for last year, you are saying Matthews would have a greater reduction in output than Marner, if they played for Philly.

So weird flex.
- Atomic Wedgie

I’m not trying to ‘flex’. I’m just throwing out numbers. No math involved man. I’m just saying 34 would still be the best scorer in the league and still super star where Mitch would be a good winger.

So your contention is that Marner is given a bunch of space because they are taking space away from Matthews and despite that Marner still feeds Matthews the puck so much that he had 69 goals - the most since anyone in 1992?

Just so we're clear - Matthews has a great shot, is excellent with the puck and is a big guy who wins a lot of puck battles. He's also got excellent vision, great hockey sense, and is an insanely good passer as well. Mitch Marner does not possess a great shot, is excellent with the puck, doesn't win a lot of head-to-head puck battles, but does win a lot battles for the puck. He has excellent vision, great hockey sense and is an insanely good passer.

Marner is probably the second most talented player, behind Matthews, to don the Leaf jersey. It's preposterous to me that people want to run him out of town. Max Domi is a great player, but you know what? On the open market Domi isn't fetching more than $5m from the most desperate of teams - but there are teams who would already be willing to pay Marner $12m.

There just isn't a real comparison here.
- Monkeypunk

I do not think Domi is as good as Marner. I do think Matthews is elite with or without Marner. Is it a conicidence he e scored his most goals in a single season spending a good portion of the season without Marner on his wing. Marner is good. We missed the boat on moving Willie and I think one has to go. I guess we have one more season to see what happens but to lock up Marner now to 12 million plus is likely not the answer.

https://www.statmuse.com/nhl/ask/mitch-marner-stats-without-austin-matthews

Mitchell Marner has 16 goals, 48 assists and a plus-minus of +16 in 54 games without Auston Matthews in his career.
- Atomic Wedgie

Marner only played 54 games without 34 in his entire career?