I assume most have already watched making a murderer, the staircase and the jinx.
iv watched almost every true crime thing I can find.

I also liked the the innocence files and Death Row Stories (narrated by Susan Sarandon)

but yeah, American Nightmare was wild. some cops are so bad at what they do
- senstroll

Yep yep and yep.

The jinx was (frank)ed.

Started watching “worst roommate ever” lastnight, I don’t love it and won’t be continuing it.

I just like mystery and thinking about poop. Especially if it involves history. That’s why my guilty pleasure is Oak Island. I need a new Oak Island..

I don’t agree:

1. Kane is not at all a good comparison. The only comparable is size. Kane never played with bruisers and the Leafs have had guys last couple seasons to keep other teams honest in that regard in the playoffs for example. It also doesn’t need to come as a same line presence. I don’t buy that at all that Kane was ‘protected’ so he flourished. Kane plays with 10x the intensity Marner does. His compete is so incredibly higher than mitch. He’s also chippy and is a scoring threat as well as a passing threat. He also never fails to rise to a big game.

2. I have seen Mitch duck contact his whole nhl career - but that is an opinion thing I suppose.

3. Bold: figuratively right? This is hockeybuzz and hardly leafs nation. More importantly fans don’t actually run players out of town.

4. Having 4 players eat up the cap is the problem. You can’t blame one player. It’s the repeated argument here: Willy/JT/Mitchy. You already know from last million posts where I stand on that. So I won’t restate but will say the smart call is mitchy gone.
- Big23Questions

Yeah I usually think Monkey is pretty spot on but I'm not sure "Marner struggles because he's small and scared of contact and nobody is protecting him" is the ringing endorsement we're looking for. In the postseason the play intensifies. Guys are gunna get hit regardless of who's there to punch back. Gotta be able to deal with it. Plenty of smaller guys who have done it. That said I absolutely agree he's one of the most talented players to ever wear a Leafs jersey

People seem to be forgetting that:

- physicality has not been an issue for a few years now in the playoffs. Pretty sure we were the hit leaders or whatever last year; year before, probably up there too.

- goaltending has not really been much of an issue since Andersen has left. Clutch moments, sure, but overall, it's not like we've been letting in 4 goals a game to put it out of reach.

- the issue has been scoring. Goals. Pretty pretty big deal to win games. Some say even the most important thing, because there are no ties.

Yep yep and yep.

The jinx was (frank)ed.

Started watching “worst roommate ever” lastnight, I don’t love it and won’t be continuing it.

I just like mystery and thinking about poop. Especially if it involves history. That’s why my guilty pleasure is Oak Island. I need a new Oak Island..
- Horsey Sauce

another decent one was I'll Be Gone in the Dark.
ill rewatch all the original seasons of unsolved mysteries, since they put updates at the end..if there are any...some I want answers so bad..and when there isnt

i watched most of oak island. but got bored when they...spoiler...never found anything lol

I don’t agree:

1. Kane is not at all a good comparison. The only comparable is size. Kane never played with bruisers and the Leafs have had guys last couple seasons to keep other teams honest in that regard in the playoffs for example. It also doesn’t need to come as a same line presence. I don’t buy that at all that Kane was ‘protected’ so he flourished. Kane plays with 10x the intensity Marner does. His compete is so incredibly higher than mitch. He’s also chippy and is a scoring threat as well as a passing threat. He also never fails to rise to a big game.

2. I have seen Mitch duck contact his whole nhl career - but that is an opinion thing I suppose.

3. Bold: figuratively right? This is hockeybuzz and hardly leafs nation. More importantly fans don’t actually run players out of town.

4. Having 4 players eat up the cap is the problem. You can’t blame one player. It’s the repeated argument here: Willy/JT/Mitchy. You already know from last million posts where I stand on that. So I won’t restate but will say the smart call is mitchy gone.
- Big23Questions

At the end of the day, you seem like a mitch hater, which is fine.
I agree, having almost half the cap on 4 forwards doesnt work, it never was going to, Even though most believed it would, i think everyone is now on board that it cant. With that said, next season, we wont have this issue. Jt is coming off the books. Even if marner gets extended for 12.5m, our core 3 will only take up 41% of the cap if it goes up to 91m. Less if it goes more.
Lets see what these guys look like under Berube first.

At the end of the day, you seem like a mitch hater, which is fine.
I agree, having almost half the cap on 4 forwards doesnt work, it never was going to, Even though most believed it would, i think everyone is now on board that it cant. With that said, next season, we wont have this issue. Jt is coming off the books. Even if marner gets extended for 12.5m, our core 3 will only take up 41% of the cap if it goes up to 91m. Less if it goes more.
Lets see what these guys look like under Berube first.
- Fakepartofme

The thing is, it could work if they kept up the same production in the playoffs, let alone stepped it up. Other superstars/stars don't seem to have this problem...

... I can't even think of any other elite forwards that have perennially crapped out in the playoffs as much as the Leafs have.

I thought maybe Backstrom, but he was PPG for most of his playoff career or better.

From the tweeter

"According to Dreger & Seravalli, it sounds like the #Oilers beat out:
#Leafs for Skinner
#NHLJets & #TBLightning for Henrique
#Flames for Arvidsson.
The gravity of McDavid, Draisaitl & a chance to win a #StanleyCup is strong. Ekholm played a part in getting his buddy Arvidsson"

Seravalli has most things incorrect

another decent one was I'll Be Gone in the Dark.
ill rewatch all the original seasons of unsolved mysteries, since they put updates at the end..if there are any...some I want answers so bad..and when there isnt

i watched most of oak island. but got bored when they...spoiler...never found anything lol
- senstroll

Well OBVIOUSLY they don’t find the treasure

But they do find interesting artifacts and structures. Really makes you think what went on there. So much history has been lost or forgotten to time.

From the tweeter

"According to Dreger & Seravalli, it sounds like the #Oilers beat out:
#Leafs for Skinner
#NHLJets & #TBLightning for Henrique
#Flames for Arvidsson.
The gravity of McDavid, Draisaitl & a chance to win a #StanleyCup is strong. Ekholm played a part in getting his buddy Arvidsson"

Seravalli has most things incorrect
- Fakepartofme

Seravalli is a (frank)in’ fraud.

I don’t agree:

1. Kane is not at all a good comparison. The only comparable is size. Kane never played with bruisers and the Leafs have had guys last couple seasons to keep other teams honest in that regard in the playoffs for example. It also doesn’t need to come as a same line presence. I don’t buy that at all that Kane was ‘protected’ so he flourished. Kane plays with 10x the intensity Marner does. His compete is so incredibly higher than mitch. He’s also chippy and is a scoring threat as well as a passing threat. He also never fails to rise to a big game.

2. I have seen Mitch duck contact his whole nhl career - but that is an opinion thing I suppose.

3. Bold: figuratively right? This is hockeybuzz and hardly leafs nation. More importantly fans don’t actually run players out of town.

4. Having 4 players eat up the cap is the problem. You can’t blame one player. It’s the repeated argument here: Willy/JT/Mitchy. You already know from last million posts where I stand on that. So I won’t restate but will say the smart call is mitchy gone.
- Big23Questions

1. Go look at who Kane's linemates were when they won cups. How big and heavy were they? They made space, won board battles and made room for Kane to dash and dish. If you didn't watch, that's fine - but while Kane is more of a shooter than Marner is, the style is very similar but the expectations of what they need to do on the ice to be successful are very different from this fan base. You should also look at Kane's linemates the last couple of years in the playoffs and how he fared.

(If you want a source, go here: https://moneypuck.com/lines.htm select Chicago, Offensive Lines Only, Playoffs, Goals and start at 2016-17 where he was -1 with no goals, the year before he was -3 with no goals, the year before with Bickell and Richards his line was +2 with 6 goals . . . )

2. No. You haven't. That was Nylander most of his career. He's been much better of late. The first time I ever noticed Mitch ducking contact was against Florida last year - not for nothing but half of this team was ducking contact in that series. Mitch ducked contact this year in the playoffs and I still maintain he was not 100%. I know a lot of people who took 6-12 months after a high ankle sprain to have full range of motion again and mitch came back after 6 weeks.

3. Larry Murphy. You, as a Wings fan, should at least know this.

4. I know the cap up front is unsustainable. Trading a guy in his prime so you can keep a guy who clearly deteriorating before our eyes isn't the solution. I know they can't trade Tavares because he won't waive - and apparently that's okay with everyone - but they have to trade Mitch and the fact that he won't waive makes him a gigantic piece of trash? It's hypocritical and short sighted since Marner is a stick that stirs the drink. I would extend him for $11.5m, let Tavares walk into the sunset, and if this year is a write-off then so be it.

Now I have said and maintain that if there was a hockey trade out there - like Marner for prime Doughty - then you do that all day. But there isn't. Moving Marner just because they lost to Boston when they would have won if the coach hadn't started the worst goalie option for 3 straight games despite having Marner playing hurt (my contention, not proven), Matthews playing hurt and Nylander dealing with migraines/concussion symptoms - and all that and they lost in OT in game 7? It's an overreaction.

1. Go look at who Kane's linemates were when they won cups. How big and heavy were they? They made space, won board battles and made room for Kane to dash and dish. If you didn't watch, that's fine - but while Kane is more of a shooter than Marner is, the style is very similar but the expectations of what they need to do on the ice to be successful are very different from this fan base. You should also look at Kane's linemates the last couple of years in the playoffs and how he fared.

(If you want a source, go here: https://moneypuck.com/lines.htm select Chicago, Offensive Lines Only, Playoffs, Goals and start at 2016-17 where he was -1 with no goals, the year before he was -3 with no goals, the year before with Bickell and Richards his line was +2 with 6 goals . . . )

2. No. You haven't. That was Nylander most of his career. He's been much better of late. The first time I ever noticed Mitch ducking contact was against Florida last year - not for nothing but half of this team was ducking contact in that series. Mitch ducked contact this year in the playoffs and I still maintain he was not 100%. I know a lot of people who took 6-12 months after a high ankle sprain to have full range of motion again and mitch came back after 6 weeks.

3. Larry Murphy. You, as a Wings fan, should at least know this.

4. I know the cap up front is unsustainable. Trading a guy in his prime so you can keep a guy who clearly deteriorating before our eyes isn't the solution. I know they can't trade Tavares because he won't waive - and apparently that's okay with everyone - but they have to trade Mitch and the fact that he won't waive makes him a gigantic piece of trash? It's hypocritical and short sighted since Marner is a stick that stirs the drink. I would extend him for $11.5m, let Tavares walk into the sunset, and if this year is a write-off then so be it.

Now I have said and maintain that if there was a hockey trade out there - like Marner for prime Doughty - then you do that all day. But there isn't. Moving Marner just because they lost to Boston when they would have won if the coach hadn't started the worst goalie option for 3 straight games despite having Marner playing hurt (my contention, not proven), Matthews playing hurt and Nylander dealing with migraines/concussion symptoms - and all that and they lost in OT in game 7? It's an overreaction.
- Monkeypunk

Mitch’s strength comes from his skating - edge work, turning and weaving etc. When he’s on he can draw defenders out of position and create space for his linemates. He never seemed to be moving as well last year especially after his injury. The other problem is that in playoffs defenders tend not to be drawn out as much. They set up around the net and kill anyone in the area.

1. Go look at who Kane's linemates were when they won cups. How big and heavy were they? They made space, won board battles and made room for Kane to dash and dish. If you didn't watch, that's fine - but while Kane is more of a shooter than Marner is, the style is very similar but the expectations of what they need to do on the ice to be successful are very different from this fan base. You should also look at Kane's linemates the last couple of years in the playoffs and how he fared.

(If you want a source, go here: https://moneypuck.com/lines.htm select Chicago, Offensive Lines Only, Playoffs, Goals and start at 2016-17 where he was -1 with no goals, the year before he was -3 with no goals, the year before with Bickell and Richards his line was +2 with 6 goals . . . )

2. No. You haven't. That was Nylander most of his career. He's been much better of late. The first time I ever noticed Mitch ducking contact was against Florida last year - not for nothing but half of this team was ducking contact in that series. Mitch ducked contact this year in the playoffs and I still maintain he was not 100%. I know a lot of people who took 6-12 months after a high ankle sprain to have full range of motion again and mitch came back after 6 weeks.

3. Larry Murphy. You, as a Wings fan, should at least know this.

4. I know the cap up front is unsustainable. Trading a guy in his prime so you can keep a guy who clearly deteriorating before our eyes isn't the solution. I know they can't trade Tavares because he won't waive - and apparently that's okay with everyone - but they have to trade Mitch and the fact that he won't waive makes him a gigantic piece of trash? It's hypocritical and short sighted since Marner is a stick that stirs the drink. I would extend him for $11.5m, let Tavares walk into the sunset, and if this year is a write-off then so be it.

Now I have said and maintain that if there was a hockey trade out there - like Marner for prime Doughty - then you do that all day. But there isn't. Moving Marner just because they lost to Boston when they would have won if the coach hadn't started the worst goalie option for 3 straight games despite having Marner playing hurt (my contention, not proven), Matthews playing hurt and Nylander dealing with migraines/concussion symptoms - and all that and they lost in OT in game 7? It's an overreaction.
- Monkeypunk

Oops

Would a Marner for Seth Jones (not necessarely 1 for 1) trade make sense for the Leafs? Would give them a RHD that can play top pair minutes and, despite his huge contract, still make Toronto save money.

I'm not saying it's a slam dunk greatest move ever but considering the risk involved of losing Marner for nothing....

Would a Marner for Seth Jones (not necessarely 1 for 1) trade make sense for the Leafs? Would give them a RHD that can play top pair minutes and, despite his huge contract, still make Toronto save money.

I'm not saying it's a slam dunk greatest move ever but considering the risk involved of losing Marner for nothing....
- Scabeh

I'd rather resign Marner next year, let Tavares walk, and have that cap space for a 2C.

I'd rather resign Marner next year, let Tavares walk, and have that cap space for a 2C.
- gravyface

That's a plan, and you do save 11M (well a little less with an expected Marner raise) next season.

But unless he's signed before the season begins, I feel like his contract will be a distraction all year long.

Yeah I usually think Monkey is pretty spot on but I'm not sure "Marner struggles because he's small and scared of contact and nobody is protecting him" is the ringing endorsement we're looking for. In the postseason the play intensifies. Guys are gunna get hit regardless of who's there to punch back. Gotta be able to deal with it. Plenty of smaller guys who have done it. That said I absolutely agree he's one of the most talented players to ever wear a Leafs jersey
- PlatosRepucklic

I think you're reading that or taking it the wrong way.

Everyone is going to get hit and smaller guys are going to, by the laws of physics and all, feel it more. When there's clutching, grabbing, hooking and holding - like there is a lot of in the playoffs - smaller guys also have a harder time fighting past the larger and stronger guys. This isn't a surprise to anyone. If you can slow down the smaller guys then you can hit them and if you can hit them you will slow them down more over a series. That's standard playoff mentality. So you don't want your smaller guys to get hit as often.

Chicago insulated Patrick Kane with Bickell, Richards, Saad, Toews - all guys over 6 feet and 200lbs. They didn't have to punch faces, they had to win the puck battles so that Kane didn't have to as often, or just be there occupying space because they are big guys and draw attention by the presence.

I've found that more often than not the smaller guys who have found ways to be successful are either excellent skaters, very deceptive - or they have solid guys who are also running their own playoff style interference which creates more room. If you take away room most players suffer, but the smaller guys will suffer more.

That's really my point.

Add into that that Matthews still doesn't fight his way into dirty areas because he has a shot that can score from the perimeter and despite his size, he's leaving his wingers to do a lot of the dirty work while he finds a soft spot outside of coverage. His shots against Boston, for example, were about 8 feet further back than his regular season area - a space I think Boston was happy to give him, because that extra quarter of a second gave Swayman time to read the shots. I looked it up last year and I think he was similarly spaced further back against Florida but was in his normal shooting distance against Tampa. So Matthews isn't even really the guy that's making space because he tries to lose himself in coverage similar to how Brett Hull used to.

Hey your smallish winger excelled in the playoffs for years and it's not because Point or Stammer were beating guys up for him.
- PlatosRepucklic

True, but Tampa always has a murder pylon on the ice or waiting in the wings. Tampa has never avoided the rough stuff. With Jeannot gone now, that responsibility probably rests on the new acquisition Girgensons or on Cernak.

Stamkos would drop the gloves for a teammate, but Briesbois shot him into the Sun like a dumbass.

Are the Leafs keeping Reaves I assume?

1. Go look at who Kane's linemates were when they won cups. How big and heavy were they? They made space, won board battles and made room for Kane to dash and dish. If you didn't watch, that's fine - but while Kane is more of a shooter than Marner is, the style is very similar but the expectations of what they need to do on the ice to be successful are very different from this fan base. You should also look at Kane's linemates the last couple of years in the playoffs and how he fared.

(If you want a source, go here: https://moneypuck.com/lines.htm select Chicago, Offensive Lines Only, Playoffs, Goals and start at 2016-17 where he was -1 with no goals, the year before he was -3 with no goals, the year before with Bickell and Richards his line was +2 with 6 goals . . . )

2. No. You haven't. That was Nylander most of his career. He's been much better of late. The first time I ever noticed Mitch ducking contact was against Florida last year - not for nothing but half of this team was ducking contact in that series. Mitch ducked contact this year in the playoffs and I still maintain he was not 100%. I know a lot of people who took 6-12 months after a high ankle sprain to have full range of motion again and mitch came back after 6 weeks.

3. Larry Murphy. You, as a Wings fan, should at least know this.

4. I know the cap up front is unsustainable. Trading a guy in his prime so you can keep a guy who clearly deteriorating before our eyes isn't the solution. I know they can't trade Tavares because he won't waive - and apparently that's okay with everyone - but they have to trade Mitch and the fact that he won't waive makes him a gigantic piece of trash? It's hypocritical and short sighted since Marner is a stick that stirs the drink. I would extend him for $11.5m, let Tavares walk into the sunset, and if this year is a write-off then so be it.

Now I have said and maintain that if there was a hockey trade out there - like Marner for prime Doughty - then you do that all day. But there isn't. Moving Marner just because they lost to Boston when they would have won if the coach hadn't started the worst goalie option for 3 straight games despite having Marner playing hurt (my contention, not proven), Matthews playing hurt and Nylander dealing with migraines/concussion symptoms - and all that and they lost in OT in game 7? It's an overreaction.
- Monkeypunk

Mitch Marner is no Patrick Kane and I refuse to believe he would be if only he had "HEAVY" players on the squad giving him space.

Usually love your takes Monkey, but I think you're off on this one.

I think you're reading that or taking it the wrong way.

Everyone is going to get hit and smaller guys are going to, by the laws of physics and all, feel it more. When there's clutching, grabbing, hooking and holding - like there is a lot of in the playoffs - smaller guys also have a harder time fighting past the larger and stronger guys. This isn't a surprise to anyone. If you can slow down the smaller guys then you can hit them and if you can hit them you will slow them down more over a series. That's standard playoff mentality. So you don't want your smaller guys to get hit as often.

Chicago insulated Patrick Kane with Bickell, Richards, Saad, Toews - all guys over 6 feet and 200lbs. They didn't have to punch faces, they had to win the puck battles so that Kane didn't have to as often, or just be there occupying space because they are big guys and draw attention by the presence.

I've found that more often than not the smaller guys who have found ways to be successful are either excellent skaters, very deceptive - or they have solid guys who are also running their own playoff style interference which creates more room. If you take away room most players suffer, but the smaller guys will suffer more.

That's really my point.

Add into that that Matthews still doesn't fight his way into dirty areas because he has a shot that can score from the perimeter and despite his size, he's leaving his wingers to do a lot of the dirty work while he finds a soft spot outside of coverage. His shots against Boston, for example, were about 8 feet further back than his regular season area - a space I think Boston was happy to give him, because that extra quarter of a second gave Swayman time to read the shots. I looked it up last year and I think he was similarly spaced further back against Florida but was in his normal shooting distance against Tampa. So Matthews isn't even really the guy that's making space because he tries to lose himself in coverage similar to how Brett Hull used to.
- Monkeypunk

Some of this falls on the GM for not providing the correct pieces of the puzzle. And part of it falls on the coach for not putting the pieces in the correct order. I blame Dubas and Keefe.

I like the Leafs offseason moves so far, but I hope they aren't done yet. Unless something big happens (Marner trade), then Tree probably is about done rearranging the deck chairs.

And even if Marner suddenly gets traded before the season starts, how would Tree utilize that cap space? All the best UFA's are signed by now. All that's left are elderly players or fringe guys.

Would a Marner for Seth Jones (not necessarely 1 for 1) trade make sense for the Leafs? Would give them a RHD that can play top pair minutes and, despite his huge contract, still make Toronto save money.

I'm not saying it's a slam dunk greatest move ever but considering the risk involved of losing Marner for nothing....
- Scabeh

I know Chicago sucks and I know Columbus was never that good, but I think Seth Jones is ridiculously overrated. Not as overrated as say Nurse, who also makes way too much - but I'm not sure what AAV I'd consider Jones a viable option. I don't really see him as a #1 RHD. He's an excellent second pairing guy who can pinch into the top pair type of player to me . . .what is that? $5.5m? Would you trade an elite offense producer for that?

And if you're Chicago and I come to you and say look here's a deal: let's do a Marner for Jones trade and you eat $4m of Jones' salary for the next 6 years and magically pay $14.93 in AAV for Marner & Jones' retention this year with your $4m remaining cap.

I can tell you that the two words you'd reply with - one would start with an 'f' and the other one would end an 'f'

The reality is, we're stuck with Marner: he's priced himself out of a trade almost everywhere and he's too good to let walk away for nothing.

Leafs are going to resign him; I just don't see any other road we could take.

People seem to be forgetting that:

- physicality has not been an issue for a few years now in the playoffs. Pretty sure we were the hit leaders or whatever last year; year before, probably up there too.

- goaltending has not really been much of an issue since Andersen has left. Clutch moments, sure, but overall, it's not like we've been letting in 4 goals a game to put it out of reach.

- the issue has been scoring. Goals. Pretty pretty big deal to win games. Some say even the most important thing, because there are no ties.
- gravyface

I hypothesize that the qualities they appear to be adding to the D corps will translate to scoring goals in the playoffs.

I know Chicago sucks and I know Columbus was never that good, but I think Seth Jones is ridiculously overrated. Not as overrated as say Nurse, who also makes way too much - but I'm not sure what AAV I'd consider Jones a viable option. I don't really see him as a #1 RHD. He's an excellent second pairing guy who can pinch into the top pair type of player to me . . .what is that? $5.5m? Would you trade an elite offense producer for that?

And if you're Chicago and I come to you and say look here's a deal: let's do a Marner for Jones trade and you eat $4m of Jones' salary for the next 6 years and magically pay $14.93 in AAV for Marner & Jones' retention this year with your $4m remaining cap.

I can tell you that the two words you'd reply with - one would start with an 'f' and the other one would end an 'f'
- Monkeypunk

Jones may be overrated by some but I'd dare say you're underrating him on this take.

He's an excellent defenseman that's playing way too much on horrible, horrible teams.

I'm not saying a 1 for 1 trade would be a win for the Leafs, I think Chicago would need to add in there, but I do think he'd fill a hole the Leafs haven't found a way to plug for a long time now, which his first pairing RHD. That's a role I fully think he's capable of playing. Oh and he has a great shot from the point if you want to add another threat for the powerplay.

The idea obviously remains only viable if Marner's negociations do not work out and the Leafs would rather see him trade him before risking losing a prime talent for nothing.

As you said, not alot of possible "hockey trade" involving Marner out there.

The reality is, we're stuck with Marner: he's priced himself out of a trade almost everywhere and he's too good to let walk away for nothing.

Leafs are going to resign him; I just don't see any other road we could take.
- gravyface

I'm gonna take the dirt road home with you.

Would a Marner for Seth Jones (not necessarely 1 for 1) trade make sense for the Leafs? Would give them a RHD that can play top pair minutes and, despite his huge contract, still make Toronto save money.

I'm not saying it's a slam dunk greatest move ever but considering the risk involved of losing Marner for nothing....
- Scabeh

Keep marner. Sees whats available next off season.