If he passes the physical with his knee issues, it'll get done. Unlike Dubas, looks like Treliving doesn't have a problem picking up D-men with size. Not very likely that Treliving would have shipped out Mason Marchment for Malgin.
- winsix

Dubas: skill is what matters more than anything

Treliving and most of the other GMs: ok we’ll just knock the skill out of your guys

Dubas: skill is what matters more than anything

Treliving and most of the other GMs: ok we’ll just knock the skill out of your guys
- Dozzer

I think there are many ways to win in this league. Dubas, Burke, and Quinn could all have done better had the empty suits above them stopped meddling, and let them do their thing. If George McPhee was our GM, they'd interfere with his ability to build a winner too, it's in their nature.

Dubas: skill is what matters more than anything

Treliving and most of the other GMs: ok we’ll just knock the skill out of your guys
- Dozzer

A bit over simplified but I get what you are saying. I dare say that with the number of 6'4" plus dmen now in the Leaf stable, a couple will certainly dress against Florida. Some of the bottom end additions on defense by Treliving. Webber 6'6", Myers 6'6", Mattinen 6'6", Chadwick 6'4" and Hakanpaa (if it works out) 6'7". I love skilled hockey plays, but I won't mind too much if one of the above lays out Bennett.

A bit over simplified but I get what you are saying. I dare say that with the number of 6'4" plus dmen now in the Leaf stable, a couple will certainly dress against Florida. Some of the bottom end additions on defense by Treliving. Webber 6'6", Myers 6'6", Mattinen 6'6", Chadwick 6'4" and Hakanpaa (if it works out) 6'7". I love skilled hockey plays, but I won't mind too much if one of the above lays out Bennett.
- winsix

The second line C who produces far less than Tavares? lol

Yeah, I’m going to be interested how this team looks coming out of the preseason… will Hakanpaa be okay? Will their size crack a top 6 sitting with Rielly, Tanev, OEL, McCabe, Benoit, and Liljegren? Where does Timmins sit in all of this now? I’m truly curious about how it will play out.

I think there are many ways to win in this league. Dubas, Burke, and Quinn could all have done better had the empty suits above them stopped meddling, and let them do their thing. If George McPhee was our GM, they'd interfere with his ability to build a winner too, it's in their nature.
- The Shrike

I get what you’re saying but I think the ownership interference belief is a bit overrated in Toronto due to the Ballard years as well.

A bit over simplified but I get what you are saying. I dare say that with the number of 6'4" plus dmen now in the Leaf stable, a couple will certainly dress against Florida. Some of the bottom end additions on defense by Treliving. Webber 6'6", Myers 6'6", Mattinen 6'6", Chadwick 6'4" and Hakanpaa (if it works out) 6'7". I love skilled hockey plays, but I won't mind too much if one of the above lays out Bennett.
- winsix

Not oversimplified at all. Spot on unfortunately.

The second line C who produces far less than Tavares? lol

Yeah, I’m going to be interested how this team looks coming out of the preseason… will Hakanpaa be okay? Will their size crack a top 6 sitting with Rielly, Tanev, OEL, McCabe, Benoit, and Liljegren? Where does Timmins sit in all of this now? I’m truly curious about how it will play out.
- Dozzer

He has to go. Horrible.

Between him and Brodie last season it's a wonder the team made the playoffs. (And believe me, I've just spent days watching different highlights and those two are the low lights in every (frank)ing game.)

Just saw video of Glen Abby golf course after that rain. Yikes. Trashed.

I get what you’re saying but I think the ownership interference belief is a bit overrated in Toronto due to the Ballard years as well.
- Dozzer

I think you get a lot of overreaction because Shanahan reportedly stopped Dubas from making at least one more, but it's been suggested there were more.

I don't view that as puppeteering as has been suggested. I view that as Shanahan doing his job and protecting the longer term interests of the club - whether it's financial, strategic or both. Getting Erik Karlsson and paying him $11.5m AAV until he's 37 - at the supposed cost of William Nylander is short-sighted at best and out and out stupid at worst. Even if the retention on him was 50%, his value depreciation year-over-year will be (or should be) stark.

And to be clear I'm not saying Karlsson isn't a great player, but if you want offense out of the back-end that can't play defense - just keep Nylander and put him back there!

I think there are many ways to win in this league. Dubas, Burke, and Quinn could all have done better had the empty suits above them stopped meddling, and let them do their thing. If George McPhee was our GM, they'd interfere with his ability to build a winner too, it's in their nature.
- The Shrike

I don't think you can give examples of how exactly these guys were meddled with. I'm not buying it.

Nobody "meddled" with Quinn. Nobody meddled with Burke - he (frank)ed it up himself. And Dubas and Shanahan (frank)ed it up themselves. Royally. And *nobody* has ever won with the approach Dubas tried.

I don't think you can give examples of how exactly these guys were meddled with. I'm not buying it.

Nobody "meddled" with Quinn. Nobody meddled with Burke - he (frank)ed it up himself. And Dubas and Shanahan (frank)ed it up themselves. Royally. And *nobody* has ever won with the approach Dubas tried.
- fifty__missions

Nobody had won with Ovechkin until he won.
Everyone said "Cant win with a 10 million dollar contract" and it's happened when the cap was flat.
I'm sure you're also a guy who said can't win with Kessel and he wins back to back cups after leaving the leafs.
If you want to goto other sports, noone thought money ball would work but the red sox won with the same idea.
Nobody can do it until it's done

St. Louis would get the best player in Marner, but Parayko is twice the defenseman that Liljegren is right now. I know Liljegren's development has been held back for one reason or another over the years, but will he ever reach his potential here.
- The Shrike

You can also say the same for Conor Timmins. They play the same game, but Timmins is only making a bit over $1M against the cap. Liljegren gets the benefit of the doubt because he's a first round pick. If it wasn't for that, he'd be making the same scratch as Timmins.

Maybe the Leafs should be looking at Robert Thomas as their future 2nd line centre. He makes just over $8M on a long term contract, 25 years of age. Could a Marner for Thomas deal make sense? There would be a $3M savings on the cap with this transaction. Thomas' stats are quite comparable to Marners.

Nobody "meddled" with Quinn. Nobody meddled with Burke - he (frank)ed it up himself. And Dubas and Shanahan (frank)ed it up themselves. Royally. And *nobody* has ever won with the approach Dubas tried.
- fifty__missions

Blowhard Dryden meddled with Quinn, and the board backed him, up to the point where they replaced Quinn with Dryden's hand picked moron boy Ferguson.

Empty suit Cope meddled with Burke, then when Brian cussed him out for it he wet his pants and fired him.

Shanahan meddled with Dubas, blocking a Holl for Caufield trade, and several others including a possible Marner for Erik Karlsson deal.
'
It's Quinns fault, it's Burkes fault, it's Dubas fault. In the future it will be Trelivings fault. Fans will continue to assess blame this way as they are powerless to do anything about the real problem....ownership, and the empty suits they put on the board.

Ditto for the Blue Jays and their decision to replace a real baseball guy with an empty suit nepotism hire in Shapiro.

Blowhard Dryden meddled with Quinn, and the board backed him, up to the point where they replaced Quinn with Dryden's hand picked moron boy Ferguson.

Empty suit Cope meddled with Burke, then when Brian cussed him out for it he wet his pants and fired him.

Shanahan meddled with Dubas, blocking a Holl for Caufield trade, and several others including a possible Marner for Erik Karlsson deal.
'
It's Quinns fault, it's Burkes fault, it's Dubas fault. In the future it will be Trelivings fault. Fans will continue to assess blame this way as they are powerless to do anything about the real problem....ownership, and the empty suits they put on the board.

Ditto for the Blue Jays and their decision to replace a real baseball guy with an empty suit nepotism hire in Shapiro.
- The Shrike

i hung out with jfj jr in the sky box for a little while at the hof game 👍

nice guy 👍🏿

Just saw video of Glen Abby golf course after that rain. Yikes. Trashed.
- Woderwick

It’s open again. Franking miracle.

My club is hoping to open again on August 3rd. Probably a stretch goal. A bridge was damaged.

Nobody had won with Ovechkin until he won.
Everyone said "Cant win with a 10 million dollar contract" and it's happened when the cap was flat.
I'm sure you're also a guy who said can't win with Kessel and he wins back to back cups after leaving the leafs.
If you want to goto other sports, noone thought money ball would work but the red sox won with the same idea.
Nobody can do it until it's done
- Aaron_85

Ok. The hockey world is wrong and you and Dubas are right.

And Kessel won as an accessory piece, not the cornerstone. Complete apples/oranges but that's what you do!

new blog everyone

I don't think you can give examples of how exactly these guys were meddled with. I'm not buying it.

Nobody "meddled" with Quinn. Nobody meddled with Burke - he (frank)ed it up himself. And Dubas and Shanahan (frank)ed it up themselves. Royally. And *nobody* has ever won with the approach Dubas tried.
- fifty__missions

We don't know what degree of autonomy Quinn had. He reported to Dryden, so there were likely some things he wanted to do that he wasn't allowed to do.

A massive difference between Quinn's generation and Dubas' generation is that Quinn's generation did their job and shut the (frank) up about it. Dubas' generation absolutely does not shut the (frank) up about things. They use PR leaks and press relationships to further their personal agenda.

But because of what you're referring to Burke negotiated autonomy into his contract - he was hired as the president and GM, so he was both Shanahan and Dubas rolled into one and I think a lot of us would argue that he wasn't particularly good at either role.

At the end of the day Dubas screwed himself - had he managed to negotiate with the numbers that had been rumoured all along (Matthews @ $10x8, Marner @ $8x8, Nylander @ $7x6 - and I can't cite sources, that's just the numbers & term I have kicking around in my head that I recall as heavily rumoured well before any negotiations started leaking to the press and before JT was signed), there would have been an additional $5m on the table.

Signing JT at $11m and dumping Kadri for softer less defensively capable players wasn't exactly a great choice - but I do point out that the escrow reclamation and COVID issues really kicked this team in the nuts at a time when they were trying to move - the cap had increased @ 5.7% the year they signed Tavares and then since then has increased 2.5%, 0%, 0%, 1.2%, 1.2% and 5.1% this year. Had the cap growth continued as anticipated there would have been roughly $5m more available each year (the cap would be $106.6m).

In theory they could have been contenders for Pietrangelo's services as an example. I checked, because I was curious - if they had made the internal decision that Kadri had to go, the only other 2nd line Centre of note signed as a UFA in 2018 was Paul Stastny for $6.5m x 3 and he was a significant downgrade in all areas.

I think the biggest mistake - and there were obviously a number - that the Dubas team made was believing the NHL's public position that they were cracking down on obstruction and interference. Dozzer made a good comment yesterday that other teams were still drafting and signing big players who took away guy's skill and the Leafs just kept drafting and signing skill. That was a massive failure to read the room.