I really don’t understand why Canada can’t dominate in the other hockey too.

I know the sticks look stupid and it’s not on ice. But it sort of pissed me off that it’s still called hockey and Canada isn’t good at it.

How hard can it be?

#banchainsaws

detailed write up of the JT tax thing

https://www.nytimes.com/a...ign=twhq&source=twitterhq

but i could see some players just not want to get tied up in the messiness of the whole tax thing and avoid CA teams.

also, dont know if its actually meaningful or not, but the top 8 teams in tax% have not won a cup since 05. no team over 50%

or to put another way, the higher 15 tax teams won 4 cups and the bottom won 17
thats a pretty heavy skew

detailed write up of the JT tax thing

https://www.nytimes.com/a...ign=twhq&source=twitterhq

but i could see some players just not want to get tied up in the messiness of the whole tax thing and avoid CA teams.

also, dont know if its actually meaningful or not, but the top 8 teams in tax% have not won a cup since 05. no team over 50%

or to put another way, the higher 15 tax teams won 4 cups and the bottom won 17
thats a pretty heavy skew
- senstroll

So many conflicting views amongst sports firms and management about taxes. This piece quotes JP Barry and some accountants at CAA and they say taxes are a big variable with free agents. Are there other variables, of course, but net v. gross is a big one.

I think the JT residency issue is pretty isolated - basically CRA trying to close a well-developed and accepted loophole. The bigger issue is the 'bonus inducement' debate and that CRA is looking hard at closing the RCA option.

Side note - I was reading some basketball related Cap stuff ...apparently in European pro ball they calculate team salaries on net income ....so there is some precedent out there in the pro sport world for change.

Also - didn't know that Manhattan has its own tax bracket!

Do we know how the Leafs RFA are doing?
Arbitration right players:
Dewar
Steeves
just a RFA:
Robertson -> wants out

Do we know how the Leafs RFA are doing?
Arbitration right players:
Dewar
Steeves
just a RFA:
Robertson -> want out
- dmnted

I think the gap with Dewar is pretty small? He'll probably get something around 1.2M

Steeves ...don't think he has arbitration rights? He shows up in camp and surprises or, more likely, he doesn't make the team and goes through waivers.

Robertson is what it is. Leafs value him so he can go out and find a trade that makes sense for the Leafs or he signs his QO and shows up ready to play.

They will need to get Robertson's handcock on paper first.
Report or is it speculation is that he want out of the Leafs organizations
He's not a happy camper and has no leverage but to hold out for a trade.
I hope he signs and then he and Liljegren are traded for a top 6 forward
- dmnted

So many conflicting views amongst sports firms and management about taxes. This piece quotes JP Barry and some accountants at CAA and they say taxes are a big variable with free agents. Are there other variables, of course, but net v. gross is a big one.

I think the JT residency issue is pretty isolated - basically CRA trying to close a well-developed and accepted loophole. The bigger issue is the 'bonus inducement' debate and that CRA is looking hard at closing the RCA option.

Side note - I was reading some basketball related Cap stuff ...apparently in European pro ball they calculate team salaries on net income ....so there is some precedent out there in the pro sport world for change.

Also - didn't know that Manhattan has its own tax bracket!
- The Law

With taxes I can say that everyone wants theirs. Some states are more relaxed and have a state-wide tax bracket and some are down to the county. I work in IT solutions in telecom and we've recently starting managing some US-based services and the taxation down there is absolutely insane. Some states have no Sales tax whatsoever and that governs the entirety of the states, while others have a general state tax that applies, unless overridden by specific counties or districts within the State. In those cases you may have to be wary of communications that run _through_ those districts as they will expect a small portion of taxes. Like . . .coming from Canadian tax which is honestly exceptionally simple (high but simple), the US is an ungodly mess of hands reaching out for their piece of the pie.

People can argue all they want about it, but it's an obvious advantage. It was well publicized that Kucherov took $9.5m because after taxes he was making more than someone in NY making $13m. In Toronto it was about $12.8m to clear as much in taxes.

There are tax breaks and shelters that people can use - but they can use them in Florida as well. It's not like not having to pay as much in taxes can't be offset everywhere you go allowing these guys to shift their tax burden. In fact most tax deferral mechanisms affect Federal tax more than State or Provincial tax, meaning residing somewhere without a State tax is far more beneficial.

With taxes I can say that everyone wants theirs. Some states are more relaxed and have a state-wide tax bracket and some are down to the county. I work in IT solutions in telecom and we've recently starting managing some US-based services and the taxation down there is absolutely insane. Some states have no Sales tax whatsoever and that governs the entirety of the states, while others have a general state tax that applies, unless overridden by specific counties or districts within the State. In those cases you may have to be wary of communications that run _through_ those districts as they will expect a small portion of taxes. Like . . .coming from Canadian tax which is honestly exceptionally simple (high but simple), the US is an ungodly mess of hands reaching out for their piece of the pie.

People can argue all they want about it, but it's an obvious advantage. It was well publicized that Kucherov took $9.5m because after taxes he was making more than someone in NY making $13m. In Toronto it was about $12.8m to clear as much in taxes.

There are tax breaks and shelters that people can use - but they can use them in Florida as well. It's not like not having to pay as much in taxes can't be offset everywhere you go allowing these guys to shift their tax burden. In fact most tax deferral mechanisms affect Federal tax more than State or Provincial tax, meaning residing somewhere without a State tax is far more beneficial.
- Monkeypunk

We had to file US taxes a couple of years - I still have nightmares.

Most complicated franking thing I have ever done.

So many conflicting views amongst sports firms and management about taxes. This piece quotes JP Barry and some accountants at CAA and they say taxes are a big variable with free agents. Are there other variables, of course, but net v. gross is a big one.

I think the JT residency issue is pretty isolated - basically CRA trying to close a well-developed and accepted loophole. The bigger issue is the 'bonus inducement' debate and that CRA is looking hard at closing the RCA option.

Side note - I was reading some basketball related Cap stuff ...apparently in European pro ball they calculate team salaries on net income ....so there is some precedent out there in the pro sport world for change.

Also - didn't know that Manhattan has its own tax bracket!
- The Law

i dont have a real great grasp of it all.. but it feels like something is needed to help level the field a little.

Has Marner been traded yet?
- Horsey Sauce

It's an E4, so any minute now...

It's an E4, so any minute now...
- Whipper

will sign 12.5x8 with the Leafs

cool 100 mil

he will end up with $1500 cuz taxes

will sign 12.5x8 with the Leafs

cool 100 mil

he will end up with $1500 cuz taxes
- senstroll

A little high for my liking for someone that completely avoids contact and disappears in games 5-7 in the playoffs, but that is the most likely scenario. I have a hard time believing Ek is wrong on this, though

So many conflicting views amongst sports firms and management about taxes. This piece quotes JP Barry and some accountants at CAA and they say taxes are a big variable with free agents. Are there other variables, of course, but net v. gross is a big one.

I think the JT residency issue is pretty isolated - basically CRA trying to close a well-developed and accepted loophole. The bigger issue is the 'bonus inducement' debate and that CRA is looking hard at closing the RCA option.

Side note - I was reading some basketball related Cap stuff ...apparently in European pro ball they calculate team salaries on net income ....so there is some precedent out there in the pro sport world for change.

Also - didn't know that Manhattan has its own tax bracket!
- The Law

In their response to JT’s Notice of Appeal to the Tax Court, CRA made it clear that the inducement issue was central to their argument. They emphasized that the size of the signing bonus relative to his salary made it clear that it was really part of his salary and not an inducement to get him to sign.

https://www.canadian-acco...tent/practice/tavares-cra

In their response to JT’s Notice of Appeal to the Tax Court, CRA made it clear that the inducement issue was central to their argument. They emphasized that the size of the signing bonus relative to his salary made it clear that it was really part of his salary and not an inducement to get him to sign.

https://www.canadian-acco...tent/practice/tavares-cra
- Chunga’s Revenge

It was a terrible argument for JT's agent to make.

There is absolutely nothing in the concept of an annual signing bonus that can be considered an inducement. If he had only received a signing bonus in year 1 it would make sense as a legal argument, but he didn't:

Year 1: his Signing bonus was $15,250,000 and Salary was $650,000
Year 2: his Signing bonus was $14,990,000 and Salary was $910,000
Year 3: his Signing bonus was $11,090,000 and Salary was $910,000
Year 4: his Signing bonus was $8,440,000 and Salary was $910,000
Year 5: his Signing bonus was $7,040,000 and Salary was $910,000
Year 6: his Signing bonus was $7,040,000 and Salary was $910,000
Year 7: his Signing bonus was $7,040,000 and Salary was $910,000

So if year 1 was an inducement to sign, why did he continue to receive Signing bonuses throughout? There is enough precedent in the NHL contractual structure to absolutely smush this argument before it starts. I'm surprised it would even make it to trial.

Ah yes, spent 6 days last week camping at Awenda with the family.
Back to work for two days this week and then off to St John's , Newfoundland for some kayaking and hiking.

Anyone know of any good seafood restaurants in St John's?
Hopefully some smaller places

I see Mallard cottage, clinched, merchant tavern, and fish exchange all seem popular.

It was a terrible argument for JT's agent to make.

There is absolutely nothing in the concept of an annual signing bonus that can be considered an inducement. If he had only received a signing bonus in year 1 it would make sense as a legal argument, but he didn't:

Year 1: his Signing bonus was $15,250,000 and Salary was $650,000
Year 2: his Signing bonus was $14,990,000 and Salary was $910,000
Year 3: his Signing bonus was $11,090,000 and Salary was $910,000
Year 4: his Signing bonus was $8,440,000 and Salary was $910,000
Year 5: his Signing bonus was $7,040,000 and Salary was $910,000
Year 6: his Signing bonus was $7,040,000 and Salary was $910,000
Year 7: his Signing bonus was $7,040,000 and Salary was $910,000

So if year 1 was an inducement to sign, why did he continue to receive Signing bonuses throughout? There is enough precedent in the NHL contractual structure to absolutely smush this argument before it starts. I'm surprised it would even make it to trial.
- Monkeypunk

I'm really puzzled as why the CRA would come back, years later, and put this new assessment on JT.

I'm not usually one to push conspiracy theories, but this just smacks of some douchebag in Ottawa (Sens or Habs fan) being vindictive.

Ah yes, spent 6 days last week camping at Awenda with the family.
Back to work for two days this week and then off to St John's , Newfoundland for some kayaking and hiking.

Anyone know of any good seafood restaurants in St John's?
Hopefully some smaller places

I see Mallard cottage, clinched, merchant tavern, and fish exchange all seem popular.
- Fakepartofme

I was in St. John's about 20 years ago, and I was amazed at how good the food was. Everywhere I ate was incredible.

I don't remember any of the names, but I'm jelly you're going out there.

Are you taking your golf clubs?

Ah yes, spent 6 days last week camping at Awenda with the family.
Back to work for two days this week and then off to St John's , Newfoundland for some kayaking and hiking.

Anyone know of any good seafood restaurants in St John's?
Hopefully some smaller places

I see Mallard cottage, clinched, merchant tavern, and fish exchange all seem popular.
- Fakepartofme

And you might get good deals on Newfoundland Growlers merch!

It was a terrible argument for JT's agent to make.

There is absolutely nothing in the concept of an annual signing bonus that can be considered an inducement. If he had only received a signing bonus in year 1 it would make sense as a legal argument, but he didn't:

Year 1: his Signing bonus was $15,250,000 and Salary was $650,000
Year 2: his Signing bonus was $14,990,000 and Salary was $910,000
Year 3: his Signing bonus was $11,090,000 and Salary was $910,000
Year 4: his Signing bonus was $8,440,000 and Salary was $910,000
Year 5: his Signing bonus was $7,040,000 and Salary was $910,000
Year 6: his Signing bonus was $7,040,000 and Salary was $910,000
Year 7: his Signing bonus was $7,040,000 and Salary was $910,000

So if year 1 was an inducement to sign, why did he continue to receive Signing bonuses throughout? There is enough precedent in the NHL contractual structure to absolutely smush this argument before it starts. I'm surprised it would even make it to trial.
- Monkeypunk

wasnt huge signing bonuses always seen as a way to get players to sign. I have seen it stated the leafs can use it to their advantage to get players to sign because they can give huge payments upfront.

unless I am really missing something, it feels like a way to get players to sign with your team

I'm really puzzled as why the CRA would come back, years later, and put this new assessment on JT.

I'm not usually one to push conspiracy theories, but this just smacks of some douchebag in Ottawa (Sens or Habs fan) being vindictive.
- Atomic Wedgie

They’ve already gone after Bautista, Donaldson and Russ Martin involving at least some of the same issues. If Canadian teams lose the signing bonus mechanism there will be huge pressure to find a way to equalize tax treatment.

I was in St. John's about 20 years ago, and I was amazed at how good the food was. Everywhere I ate was incredible.

I don't remember any of the names, but I'm jelly you're going out there.

Are you taking your golf clubs?
- Atomic Wedgie

Not a golfer.
Just gonna eat, drink, kayak and hike.......and do a little sleeping.

And you might get good deals on Newfoundland Growlers merch!
- Atomic Wedgie

Thats the real reason Im going.

wasnt huge signing bonuses always seen as a way to get players to sign. I have seen it stated the leafs can use it to their advantage to get players to sign because they can give huge payments upfront.

unless I am really missing something, it feels like a way to get players to sign with your team
- senstroll

It's plausibly an inducement if it happens only in year 1 - otherwise it's a benefit of the contract that allows you to exploit tax loopholes - which, if I'm the CRA, I'm going to make harsh note of in court. The Maple Leafs have the financial clout to provide this type of advantage to a player, but it's not an inducement. Again, being very pedantic here because in law words really, really matter.

If I'm a lawyer I can go get every RFA that signs an extension with an up front Signing bonus and note that it's not an inducement to give a contract extension.

I'm not a lawyer but this argument is paper thin.

Unite Bryan and Jake McCabe

Not my suggestion

Keller Marino McBain Bjugstad
for
Marner Liljegren Timmins Kampf Hirvonen Peksa Villeneuve

Seems bad
https://heavy.com/sports/...ch-marner-clayton-keller/