It took Holland 5 years to get a team with McDavid and Draisaitl into the Cup Finals. There were successful moves, the Hyman signing and Ekholm trade at the top of that list. But there were plenty of opportunities wasted, bad signings, and moves that stunted those teams. Using the money that was being wasted on Jack Campbell could have helped the Oilers I’m sure.
- freelancer

Don't forget Nurse's contract. But, to be fair, at least there was almost equal good with the bad, we have had much much worse GM'ing in the recent past.

You don't seem to get it. So I give up. Nick Leddy served his purpose. But in a cap world was a luxury. Also don't think too many people, besides those with a slant against Bowman would label him a top pairing dman. But I guess on those great NYI teams he did get more minutes than Travis Hamonic, Johnny Boychuk, and Calvin deHaan. What a stud!

And this history of young players thriving elsewhere? Again, Panarin had to move on. Teravainen was needed to dump Bickell. But two can play this game. He dumped Cam Barker (3rd overall) for Leddy. Did Barker thrive elsewhere? Did he give up too soon on Hugh Jessiman? He got a 1st round pick for Troy Brouwer...how did his career do in the years to follow? Young Tomas Kopecky was moved after winning a Cup- too soon? How did Dave Boland do after Stan dumped him? He used Klas Dahlbeck to add Antoine Vermette. Vermette helped win another Cup while Dahlbeck ended up being a bust. So plenty of examples of Bowman correctly evaluating his own talent and moving on. You seem stuck on Panarin and Teravainen without recognizing the cap reality of the time.

But OK. Bowman is a terrible GM. I guess that makes Jackson a moron for hiring him. So who then? Pick your hire and tell us why? Might be more interesting than your childish Bowman articles.
- HockeyBuzzed

I understand you perfectly but we simply do not agree. Stan Bowman made some good moves as a GM, I am not denying that, but I argue that his overall body of work was a net negative.

You talk about having to make tough decisions in a salary cap era. Bowman dealt with a salary cap like every other team but every time he made one of those moves the Hawks became a worse team. The Hawks are in a full rebuild and none of their current prospects or young talent are a result of anything Bowman did in those cap moves. Looking at an Oilers team that is going to start having cap issues, I have huge concerns about hiring a GM who when dealing with that same scenario, left the team in shambles.

As for my own pick for a GM, I was okay with the idea of someone like Mark Hunter or Keith Gretzky coming into the role alongside Jeff Jackson. Both have a long history of player development and trust in analytics and seem like forward thinkers.

His history of dealing with teams with cap constraints in addition to everything else surrounding Bowman, I believe that hire to be a distraction for the team and simply something that will negatively impact this franchise moving forward. But it is clear that is something you disagree with so I will not waste any more time discussing it with you.

Great blog. Spot on.

What a ridiculous comparison. Oil almost won the Cup with 3 good players? Delete your account.
- Oildrum

Man - it’s like you don’t pay attention on purpose. I’ve addressed why I feel the team went to the Cup Finals. Seriously dude please pay attention.

What a ridiculous comparison indeed. One team is deep and stacked while the other, and I’m just paraphrasing their coach and captain, rely heavily on PP to win games.

Be better. I know you’re from the trash that is Berta but try.

Just a paltry +78 combined, with only 127 points. I see your logic then, my bad.

You point out Ekholm's offensive stats to quantify him, which is odd when talking about the defensive conscience of a D pairing. Also say that the team is only as good as the PP, then point out how Ekholm doesn't even play on the PP much. Say that the team is only 3 players deep, then acknowledge that the PK was also real good, but those 3 players spend essentially no time on the PK. I find most of your posts perplexing is all. At least they are more hockey based than most of the Nuck fan's input though.
- Beergu

McDavid Christ eh. I’ve stated multiple times in this back and forth in here Ekholm is a good dman and defensively especially. Bouchard is a meh dman and has a boomer. Why don’t you get that?

Pointing out Ekholm os good defensively (which you apparently missed) then saying he isn’t good offensively or at least nothing stands out then pointing to how he doesn’t play PP as an example of how even his coach sees him offensively.

pp/pk are special teams. That’s not indicative of having a deep team. Their system and the players in the pk played well short handed.

The power play and d pairing are 2 different topics. Seriously man please go back and follow along. It’s perplexing that you felt it necessary to post to me without reading fully and comprehending what I had stated.

I just can’t play this game with you buds.

Agreed….this is just sad

So wait...when a Cup winning team like Chicago has to give raises to superstars like Kane and Toews and Keith...the GM tasked with shedding salary to stay under the cap is being critized for making the team worse? Too bad he couldn't shed salary and magically make the team better!

Have you paid attention to Tampa? Brilliant Cup-winning GM. But they moved on from Palat and Killorn and Goodrow and many others. They got worse. Same thing in Pittsburgh and Washington. Dont you think Colorado wished they could have kept Kadri or was he the cap casualty in order to keep a core of MacKinnon, Makar, Rantanen? Vegas won the Cup and had to dump Reilly Smith. They got worse. And now Marchessault and Stephenson followed. What kind of dumb GM is working there?

So find me a GM that sheds salary to keep their core intact while magically winning those trades. Pretty high bar. But since Bowman couldn't win all those trades his track record is awful. Although now suddenly the tune has changed and he did SOME good things. Yawn.

So wait...when a Cup winning team like Chicago has to give raises to superstars like Kane and Toews and Keith...the GM tasked with shedding salary to stay under the cap is being critized for making the team worse? Too bad he couldn't shed salary and magically make the team better!

Have you paid attention to Tampa? Brilliant Cup-winning GM. But they moved on from Palat and Killorn and Goodrow and many others. They got worse. Same thing in Pittsburgh and Washington. Dont you think Colorado wished they could have kept Kadri or was he the cap casualty in order to keep a core of MacKinnon, Makar, Rantanen? Vegas won the Cup and had to dump Reilly Smith. They got worse. And now Marchessault and Stephenson followed. What kind of dumb GM is working there?

So find me a GM that sheds salary to keep their core intact while magically winning those trades. Pretty high bar. But since Bowman couldn't win all those trades his track record is awful. Although now suddenly the tune has changed and he did SOME good things. Yawn.
- HockeyBuzzed

Every team you just mentioned is still a playoff team.

What? How on earth can you omitt these guys but list support pieces like Madden, Bolland, Versteeg and Hjalmarson?

Despite Kane's fault he's 100% comparable to some of the guys listed, same with Ekholm and Bouchard. Even Skinner was really good at times.

Difference between EDM and CHI is that the CHI team was deeper. Also dont forget EDM was just 1 game away from a Stanley cup. EDM lost some depth which will hurt them but nothing they cant add at the deadline.

Ideally they shoiuld move Kane. I dont think he would have any issues waiving as he does not seem happy getting 3rd line minutes and frankly makes too much to be on the 3rd line. His attitude hasnt been great either.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Oilers are a stronger team now than the team that was in the Finals.

Don't forget Nurse's contract. But, to be fair, at least there was almost equal good with the bad, we have had much much worse GM'ing in the recent past.
- Beergu

Tambellini, MacT, Chia....

Every team you just mentioned is still a playoff team.
- Sean Maloughney

Yawn. These teams are still respectable because their Core is still playing reasonably well. Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook are long gone. So give it a couple more years and report back where the Pens stand without Crosby, Malkin, Letang. Let me know what the Caps look like after Ovie and Carlson are gone, after Backstrom and Kuznetsov left already. My goodness. So biased that you can't even be rationale. Done reading this childish nonsense. We get it. Bowman is an evil person, a terrible GM, and the Oilers should be embarrassed. That's your "insightful" take. Already bored.

McDavid Christ eh. I’ve stated multiple times in this back and forth in here Ekholm is a good dman and defensively especially. Bouchard is a meh dman and has a boomer. Why don’t you get that?
- Big23Questions

Because it's brain dead. 32/32 NHL front offices would take him. It's like saying Seider is meh. It's an ignorant statement that destroys any credibility to evaluate players.

Because it's brain dead. 32/32 NHL front offices would take him. It's like saying Seider is meh. It's a stupid statement that destroys any credibility to evaluate players.
- jfkst1

That whole post destroys logic. It’s a hypothetical right - how do you know 32/32 GMs building a team to win takes him? Hate arguments like that. That’s not a strong point. Reality is that GMs would be evaluating:

- where is their team now (in terms of Cup contending)
- what would they need to give up to acquire him?
- so they need a dman to play PP mins and have a boomer from point or do they have one already?
- is their dcore looking to add to the offensive side of the game or defensive side of the game?

He’s not Makar or say Keith or Seabrook - not at the level you never turn away and figure out later.

It’s not at all like saying Mo is meh. Please watch hockey more. Tell me you think Bouchard is a better dman than Seider.

I feel like I’m at he pint where I just need to say: oh ya man, never thought of it like that - you’re right….just to end this eh. Getting repetitive.

That whole post destroys logic. It’s a hypothetical right - how do you know 32/32 GMs building a team to win takes him?

He’s not Makar or say Keith or Seabrook - not at the level you never turn away and figure out later.

- Big23Questions

His cap hit is 98th in the league. And he in the top 30 dmen in the league that is only 24 and a RD. Every GM would take him on that cap hit if they could. Also, he's unequivocally better than Seabrook was at 24.
https://dashboard.puckpedia.com/?q=H4HLFP#&sort[table0]=3-1

His cap hit is 98th in the league. And he in the top 30 dmen in the league that is only 24 and a RD. Every GM would take him on that cap hit if they could. Also, he's unequivocally better than Seabrook was at 24.
https://dashboard.puckpedia.com/?q=H4HLFP#&sort
- jfkst1[table0]=3-1

Not gonna hold your hand and explain the game anymore to you. Just try to think how it was played when Seabrook played it vs now, how much better defensively he was than Bouchard, how unbelievably more physical and dominating he was than Bouchard and what he brought game to game in that era. You may not be old enough I suspect. I also can’t explain how points doesn’t make a player better at their position or at their role.

….now we’re taking Cap Hits? On second thought:
You know what my man - I completely change my opinion. I now see it your way. Bouchard is definitely better than both Keith and Seabrook. Had they all players same era of trade both straight up for Bouchorr - I mean Bouchard.

Well done Sean thank you!!



Yeah three cups for Bowman in Chicago that really sucks he wants to bring that winning culture to EDM lol.

Could be the piece that gets them over the top finally.


- LordHumungous

You are a idiot I’m impressed you can read and write

Then you mention Panarin. Hawks wanted to keep him but knew he was due for a huge pay raise that they couldn't afford. They knew DeBrincat was on the way on an ELC. So they made a tough decision on Panarin.


- HockeyBuzzed

This isn't accurate, as Panarin was actually signed to an extension near the end of what turned out to be his last season in Chicago. It was literally a 'decision' that did not need to be made at that time; as it was Saad was making about as much as Panarin was going to be.

The real issue was what was going to happen with Panarin after that extension was up; it was then that the Hawks felt they were not going to be able to retain Panarin, or maybe they got a vibe of the circus atmosphere that Columbus ended up having to put up with, when they missed that he had no desire to sign there long term. And it was a circus

The thing that needs to be watched for with Bowman, is he seems to have had a really poor relationship with his head coach (in Quennville) - trading assets for whom Quennville had zero use for -Wiese/Fleischmann - that was a perfect example--- Quennville simply refused to play them until injuries basically forced it on him. He nearly did the same in 2015 with Vermette.

Not sure that Edmonton actually needed 'the Stanbo experience'- meaning, not sure that he is the final piece to get that 4th win in the SCF. Takes more than a GM, even one with a debatable record.

Right. Only 1 win away from the Cup. Holland did a horrible job.
- Oildrum

Holland did exactly what he said he would do. Get them a chance for a cup in 5 years.

Oilers are a stronger team now than the team that was in the Finals.
- Oildrum

Bowman will round out the roster nicely.

You are a idiot I’m impressed you can read and write
- Hockeyfan4life14

Wow clown great contribution. Another Flames fan to pop in to deflect all your teams shortcomings on to the Oilers. You club has been an absolute joke dude since 2005 with one of THE worst drafting an PO records in Hockey. A joke much like yourself there lil' fella

His cap hit is 98th in the league. And he in the top 30 dmen in the league that is only 24 and a RD. Every GM would take him on that cap hit if they could. Also, he's unequivocally better than Seabrook was at 24.
https://dashboard.puckpedia.com/?q=H4HLFP#&sort
- jfkst1[table0]=3-1

Even considering they are very different types of defensemen, how is Bouchard better than SeabrooK? Seabrook was never really counted on as a point producer. He was great defensively, was able to quickly recognize his outlets and moved the puck very well with stretch passes and quick outlets to open players. He had a really good/accurate slapshot as well. He spent a ton of time playing safety while Keith played more of a rover, but that's a big reason why they played so well together.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Bouchard strikes me as more of a play driver and point producer and appeared to be a bit improved defensively (I didn't watch a ton of EDM games last year).

Even considering they are very different types of defensemen, how is Bouchard better than SeabrooK? Seabrook was never really counted on as a point producer. He was great defensively, was able to quickly recognize his outlets and moved the puck very well with stretch passes and quick outlets to open players. He had a really good/accurate slapshot as well. He spent a ton of time playing safety while Keith played more of a rover, but that's a big reason why they played so well together.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Bouchard strikes me as more of a play driver and point producer and appeared to be a bit improved defensively (I didn't watch a ton of EDM games last year).
- Chunk

Bouchard is better at 24 than Seabrook was at 24. It's not even a debate to anyone with a shred of common sense. Whether Bouchard ends up being a better player is yet to be determined, though Seabrook is horrifically overrated due to team accomplishments. He was a good- never great- dman whose game completely collapsed by age 30.

Bouchard is better at 24 than Seabrook was at 24. It's not even a debate to anyone with a shred of common sense. Whether Bouchard ends up being a better player is yet to be determined, though Seabrook is horrifically overrated due to team accomplishments by many. He was a good- never great- dman whose game completely collapsed by age 30. Bouchard could easily end up the superior player.
- jfkst1

By what metric?

Edit: The Hawks scored about 30 less goals in 09-10 than the Oilers last year, but they also yielded about 30 less than EDM did. The Hawks were a much better defensive team than the Oilers are. The Hawks PP was middle of the pack and their PK was towards the top. Different situations and uses for the players need to be taken into account.

Seabrook rightfully gets his accolades. He blocks about 50% more shots per year than Bouchard. Less giveaways, etc. So as a complete defenseman, I'd say Seabrook comes out on top (even though it is a bit difficult to compare the two).

By what metric?
- Chunk

By practically every single metric. Hence why it is common sense. W.A.R., goals%, Points share, points, ES points, PP points, ES Pts./60, relative possession numbers. Everything favors Bouchard.

By practically every single metric. Hence why it is common sense. W.A.R., goals%, Points share, points, ES points, PP points, ES Pts./60, relative possession numbers. Everything favors Bouchard.
- jfkst1

I'd argue the bolded are less important (NOTE: I am not saying unimportant) to grading a defenseman. I want my defensemen to be good at playing defense. True, if you keep the puck at the other end of the ice, it is greatly beneficial, but if by chance you are stuck in your own end, the fewer giveaways and more blocked shots the better. Not to mention, a greater percentage of Bouchard's points came on the PP than Seabrook.

While I do think they help explain what is going on, I don't think you can use advanced stats as the sole basis for argument.