By practically every single metric. Hence why it is common sense. W.A.R., goals%, Points share, points, ES points, PP points, ES Pts./60, relative possession numbers. Everything favors Bouchard.
- jfkst1

Come to think of it... why are you comparing Bouchard to Seabrook and not Keith? If anything, Ekholm is the much closer to Seabrook's style of player.

Come to think of it... why are you comparing Bouchard to Seabrook and not Keith? If anything, Ekholm is the much closer to Seabrook's style of player.
- Chunk

Ekholm is our top defenseman just as Keith was yours.

Ekholm is our top defenseman just as Keith was yours.
- Oildrum

Sure, but would it not make more sense to compare players with similar styles instead of who is called the "#1 or #2?

While both #1 centermen, I really wouldn't compare Toews to McDavid. Both incredible players, but different styles. McDavid will put literally anyone else historically to shame (considering the rule differences and goalie play, you kind of have to put him up there with Gretzky, no?) when looking at scoring, but Toews put up points (at a lower rate) and also won or was a Selke finalist every year.

Bouchard is closer in style to Keith (although, I'll argue not as good defense with better offense), and Ekholm is closer to Seabrook. It's all the top pairing so why not just compare the players with more similar play/responsibilities?

I sympathize with my Albertan cousins. Bowman is a dud, plan and simple. Your team will not get better with him at the helm.

Excellent blog BTW. I still can't believe the idiot lost 3 times in Saad trades.

I sympathize with my Albertan cousins. Bowman is a dud, plan and simple. Your team will not get better with him at the helm.

Excellent blog BTW. I still can't believe the idiot lost 3 times in Saad trades.
- SaskHawkFan

Yeah that would suck if EDM got three cups like CHI did after hiring Bowman.

That would suck real bad for Oilers fans lol

Yeah that would suck if EDM got three cups like CHI did after hiring Bowman.

That would suck real bad for Oilers fans lol


- LordHumungous

I think the long and short of Bowman's tenure with the Hawks is that he was quite good at filling out a roster around the core that was in place. He had the luxury of having a very good coach in place and their best players were on bridge, or at least more reasonable deals (outside of Hossa and Keith who were on contracts that aren't legal in the CBA anymore).

Bowman's effectiveness was diminished the moment that Toews and Kane's long-term deals kicked in. As mentioned, he went back and forth with Saad, didn't get much of anything back for Sharp and Oduya, and spent assets on guys that didn't provide a big enough boost to help.

I think the issue that EDM will run into is that they already have to extremely top heavy contracts and are already struggling to fill out the rest of the roster. As long as McDavid and Draisaitl are healthy and contributing, they'll be a force, but likely struggle in the PO's. The young Hawks had so many young guys coming up through the system that they had a number of years where they could just plug guys into a 3rd line or 3rd pair role and not really miss a beat.

I personally think the Hawks were kind of lucky to win the third cup in '15. They basically only played two D pairs and some of their best players were starting to slow down. Maybe if the cap takes another good jump, there will be more runway for EDM.

I think the long and short of Bowman's tenure with the Hawks is that he was quite good at filling out a roster around the core that was in place. He had the luxury of having a very good coach in place and their best players were on bridge, or at least more reasonable deals (outside of Hossa and Keith who were on contracts that aren't legal in the CBA anymore).

Bowman's effectiveness was diminished the moment that Toews and Kane's long-term deals kicked in. As mentioned, he went back and forth with Saad, didn't get much of anything back for Sharp and Oduya, and spent assets on guys that didn't provide a big enough boost to help.

I think the issue that EDM will run into is that they already have to extremely top heavy contracts and are already struggling to fill out the rest of the roster. As long as McDavid and Draisaitl are healthy and contributing, they'll be a force, but likely struggle in the PO's. The young Hawks had so many young guys coming up through the system that they had a number of years where they could just plug guys into a 3rd line or 3rd pair role and not really miss a beat.

I personally think the Hawks were kind of lucky to win the third cup in '15. They basically only played two D pairs and some of their best players were starting to slow down. Maybe if the cap takes another good jump, there will be more runway for EDM.
- Chunk

Great posts Chunk, nice to see a logical and reasonable visitor to the Oil page, been short on that lately. Oil don't have a lot coming up the pipeline to fill spots shortly, Buf helped that a bit with Savoie. Really Holloway and Broberg are the best, and they are in transition now, we'll have to see how Bowman deals with their RFA status.

Great posts Chunk, nice to see a logical and reasonable visitor to the Oil page, been short on that lately. Oil don't have a lot coming up the pipeline to fill spots shortly, Buf helped that a bit with Savoie. Really Holloway and Broberg are the best, and they are in transition now, we'll have to see how Bowman deals with their RFA status.
- Beergu

Broberg and Holloway for Saad. I kid, I kid.

BLOWman is the biggest POS in the NHL
FACT

His Dad was a Great COACH not a GM

Don't forget the great Kimmo Timmonen trade

Guys a total DUECHE

Glad he's in Canada

I'm waiting to hear about which player bugged Beach in practice about it, then we'll find out it was Toews. Which is why duder went into hiding the past couple years

Great posts Chunk, nice to see a logical and reasonable visitor to the Oil page, been short on that lately. Oil don't have a lot coming up the pipeline to fill spots shortly, Buf helped that a bit with Savoie. Really Holloway and Broberg are the best, and they are in transition now, we'll have to see how Bowman deals with their RFA status.
- Beergu

I try for logical. Reasonable isn't always my strong suit (I have an ongoing theory that the max contract length any GM should agree to is 5 years).

I was all in on Holloway in his draft year. I still think he can be a really good player. Is he just buried down the lineup right now, or not showing enough to warrant a higher role? Is 3rd line his ceiling?

Broberg and Holloway for Saad. I kid, I kid.
- ChonDerry

That's cold. Too soon.

Bouchard is better at 24 than Seabrook was at 24. It's not even a debate to anyone with a shred of common sense. Whether Bouchard ends up being a better player is yet to be determined, though Seabrook is horrifically overrated due to team accomplishments. He was a good- never great- dman whose game completely collapsed by age 30.
- jfkst1

Bouchard puts up better offensive numbers at 24 than Seabrook did - anyone with a shred of common sense can look at the offensive totals. That same person would further display their shred by stating Bouchard is no we’re near as good defensively, physically, and at puck management, net front, along the wall - basically playing defence, as Seabrook at 24.


Bold: is maybe Top 5 most ridiculous takes I’ve read on here regarding hockey.

Bouchard puts up better offensive numbers at 24 than Seabrook did - anyone with a shred of common sense can look at the offensive totals. That same person would further display their shred by stating Bouchard is no we’re near as good defensively, physically, and at puck management, net front, along the wall - basically playing defence, as Seabrook at 24.


Bold: is maybe Top 5 most ridiculous takes I’ve read on here regarding hockey.
- Big23Questions

I remember many ignoramuses such as yourself claiming Toews was Crosby's equivalent back then too. You're just incapable of separating team accomplishments from individual contributions. Just like many low IQ fans. Meanwhile, Crosby at 37 is superior to the long retired Toews at his peak.

I remember many ignoramuses such as yourself claiming Toews was Crosby's equivalent back then too. You're just incapable of separating team accomplishments from individual contributions. Just like many low IQ fans. Meanwhile, Crosby at 37 is superior to the long retired Toews at his peak.
- jfkst1

1. You have zero credibility. You claim I state Toews was Crosby’s equivalent? When? Absolute moronic claim and even more moronic to accuse someone of something that never happened.

2. The fact is - it’s you that see the accomplishment or impact of players. You have no clue how to evaluate players and the roles they play for their teams. You are one of these ‘never played’ who look at pts and well that must mean you’re the best! Like dork reporters who never played just giving he Norris to the dman with the most points (mostly). You’re a stat geek who never played. Each time you try to argue Bouchard and his 3 seasons (one with 82 pts is incredible test with 41 or 42 something like that) is better than a dman who played in each and every area of the game defensively - makes you look like the burner I think you are.

3. You are incapable of staying on point. Classic Yank being overwhelmed by hockey talk eh - you stared talking salary cap hit %, who is better at 24, now Toews vs Crosby. I can’t keep up with your stupidity abd goal post moving so I’ll be running along here then guy.

Top Pairing Team Canada dman comparable to Bouchard! Haha oh man classic!

Broberg and Holloway for Saad. I kid, I kid.
- ChonDerry

lol that's pretty funny.

Well played.

1. You have zero credibility. You claim I state Toews was Crosby’s equivalent? When? Absolute moronic claim and even more moronic to accuse someone of something that never happened.

2. The fact is - it’s you that see the accomplishment or impact of players. You have no clue how to evaluate players and the roles they play for their teams. You are one of these ‘never played’ who look at pts and well that must mean you’re the best! Like dork reporters who never played just giving he Norris to the dman with the most points (mostly). You’re a stat geek who never played. Each time you try to argue Bouchard and his 3 seasons (one with 82 pts is incredible test with 41 or 42 something like that) is better than a dman who played in each and every area of the game defensively - makes you look like the burner I think you are.

3. You are incapable of staying on point. Classic Yank being overwhelmed by hockey talk eh - you stared talking salary cap hit %, who is better at 24, now Toews vs Crosby. I can’t keep up with your stupidity abd goal post moving so I’ll be running along here then guy.

Top Pairing Team Canada dman comparable to Bouchard! Haha oh man classic!
- Big23Questions

But then you go and respond with something stupid like 41 and 42 point seasons for Bouchard, like you actually watch any Oil hockey. Those were his 22 and 23 year old seasons, while playing behind Barrie who was the PP quarterback. Bouchard wasn't given the reigns until 61 games through the 22/23 season, when Barrie was moved.

Now, I'm not saying Bouchard is anything more than a better Barrie, who's going to be wickedly overpaid by Bowman on his next deal, but the kid performs while across from Ekholm. No D in Edm has had the overall impact on the team that Ekholm has, at least since Pronger, so it's not surprising that everyone who actually watches the hockey critiques your opinions.

But then you go and respond with something stupid like 41 and 42 point seasons for Bouchard, like you actually watch any Oil hockey. Those were his 22 and 23 year old seasons, while playing behind Barrie who was the PP quarterback. Bouchard wasn't given the reigns until 61 games through the 22/23 season, when Barrie was moved.

Now, I'm not saying Bouchard is anything more than a better Barrie, who's going to be wickedly overpaid by Bowman on his next deal, but the kid performs while across from Ekholm. No D in Edm has had the overall impact on the team that Ekholm has, at least since Pronger, so it's not surprising that everyone who actually watches the hockey critiques your opinions.
- Beergu

Well I watch ‘the hockey’. I’m in an Oilers thread stating that I don’t see them as a good ‘team’ and also that while it was a solid move by coach and great pairing (not close to best in nhl mind you) Bouchard and Ekholm are good dmen - but not close to Keith/Seabrook calibre. Neither are Top Pair guys but solid second pairing and top pairing on a team like Edmonton. I would assume I get criticized for that reason. It’s like I’m from Toronto - so I would say post: I like sleeves on my tshirts and I don’t have a tribal band tattoo nor a Yosemite Sam tat and I never married my cousin and am opposed to the hiring a diddling supporter. …most likely get criticized for also.

Read the post again buds. I was commenting on his 3 seasons in the NHL. I referenced his first 3 full seasons. My numbers were rough guess and actually add up the correct total of points in those first 2. I then made a point to stats his 3rd year (the 82 pt season last year) was impressive. My point was to show he is a points guy not necessarily making a good dman. I used to think Kabrle in Toronto should’ve been a forward.

Nobody was talking the reigns being given or discussion team circumstances. It was a simple 3 full season evaluation - you don’t even try to read the full posts do you?

Then your last paragraph is just a comment about something I wasn’t even talking about.

Please be better.

Well I watch ‘the hockey’. I’m in an Oilers thread stating that I don’t see them as a good ‘team’ and also that while it was a solid move by coach and great pairing (not close to best in nhl mind you) Bouchard and Ekholm are good dmen - but not close to Keith/Seabrook calibre. Neither are Top Pair guys but solid second pairing and top pairing on a team like Edmonton. I would assume I get criticized for that reason. It’s like I’m from Toronto - so I would say post: I like sleeves on my tshirts and I don’t have a tribal band tattoo nor a Yosemite Sam tat and I never married my cousin and am opposed to the hiring a diddling supporter. …most likely get criticized for also.

Read the post again buds. I was commenting on his 3 seasons in the NHL. I referenced his first 3 full seasons. My numbers were rough guess and actually add up the correct total of points in those first 2. I then made a point to stats his 3rd year (the 82 pt season last year) was impressive. My point was to show he is a points guy not necessarily making a good dman. I used to think Kabrle in Toronto should’ve been a forward.

Nobody was talking the reigns being given or discussion team circumstances. It was a simple 3 full season evaluation - you don’t even try to read the full posts do you?

Then your last paragraph is just a comment about something I wasn’t even talking about.

Please be better.
- Big23Questions

Awesome!

Sean Maloughney: Looking at Bowman's Awful Track Record As GM
- freelancer

So, you mostly highlight a few of the cap dump trades that were necessary to keep the core together, but fail to mention any of the players acquired during Stan's tenure that were solid contributors to cup winning teams: Michael Handzus (2013), Ray Emery (2013), Johnny Oduya (2013, 2016), and Antoine Vermette (2016), to name a few.

I'm the last guy that wants to defend Bowman, but at least give us the illusion of being fair.

Between the regular season and the playoffs, the Bouchard/Ekholm pairing was a +101 combined, even with the crappy start the Oil had to the season. You do understand that you don't get a + for a PP goal, don't you?

A combined 169 points. Yeah, total jobbers just along for the McRide.
- Beergu

Burns don't get much hotter than this! Haha
There is no chance he will respond to this kind of logic...too funny...great work!

So, you mostly highlight a few of the cap dump trades that were necessary to keep the core together, but fail to mention any of the players acquired during Stan's tenure that were solid contributors to cup winning teams: Michael Handzus (2013), Ray Emery (2013), Johnny Oduya (2013, 2016), and Antoine Vermette (2016), to name a few.

I'm the last guy that wants to defend Bowman, but at least give us the illusion of being fair.
- MartiniMan

Sean is blinded by his hate.

That whole post destroys logic. It’s a hypothetical right - how do you know 32/32 GMs building a team to win takes him? Hate arguments like that. That’s not a strong point. Reality is that GMs would be evaluating:

- where is their team now (in terms of Cup contending)
- what would they need to give up to acquire him?
- so they need a dman to play PP mins and have a boomer from point or do they have one already?
- is their dcore looking to add to the offensive side of the game or defensive side of the game?

He’s not Makar or say Keith or Seabrook - not at the level you never turn away and figure out later.

It’s not at all like saying Mo is meh. Please watch hockey more. Tell me you think Bouchard is a better dman than Seider.

I feel like I’m at he pint where I just need to say: oh ya man, never thought of it like that - you’re right….just to end this eh. Getting repetitive.
- Big23Questions

I'm finding that I don't really like this big23questions dude (from a 1/2 dozen posts, haha), but he's right about Bouchard. Bouch only has a big shot, he's one of the worst defensive dmen in the league, and his hockeyvsense is garbage, but he has improved A LOT.
Comparing Bouchard to Seider is nonsense...Sender is an elite talent.

Also, I really think I'd take a prime Ekholm over a prime Seabrook...but it's close.

I'm finding that I don't really like this big23questions dude (from a 1/2 dozen posts, haha), but he's right about Bouchard. Bouch only has a big shot, he's one of the worst defensive dmen in the league, and his hockeyvsense is garbage, but he has improved A LOT.
Comparing Bouchard to Seider is nonsense...Sender is an elite talent.

Also, I really think I'd take a prime Ekholm over a prime Seabrook...but it's close.
- JLO961

Most likely a big fan of biological males competing in Womens Olympic boxing.