I didn't say there are rules that prevent a team from trading a player in their control for one year with regards to the waiver process. I said there are special rules that restrict asset management in regards to waivers. Namely, the entire process which dictates that you have a limited period of time to develop a prospect into an NHL player. At a certain point, if he is capable of playing in the NHL, you have to put him on your NHL roster or give him away to another team. And all the other teams (in the form of the waiver wire) get to decide whether he's capable of playing in the NHL. And you get nothing in return. Seems like BS.

But why can't I just shuttle guys back and forth between the AHL and the NHL as much as I want and stockpile an entire NHL team on my AHL roster? They're my assets, why can't I do what I want with them? Because management thinks it would unfairly affect competitive balance and players believe that guys capable of playing in the NHL should, after a certain period of time, be on an NHL roster.

It's simply meant to be an example where seemingly something unfair happens (a team has to give away a player getting nothing in return) because both players and management think it's the proper thing to do in the overall scheme of things. And it happens much more often than a player having an offer sheet matched and the matching team not being allowed to trade him for a year.
- FoppaForever

You're conflating things. In that waiver process, you aren't taking away a choice from a team, due to the actions of a player and another team that they had zero control over. An NHL team has the choice of what to do with a player once he becomes waiver eligible. They can keep him on the NHL roster. They can choose to waive him and put him through that process. Or they can trade the player. There is not another team involved in that decision making forcing their hand. You don't seem to get that another team in the OS situation, forces their hand. Stops them from having a normal course of player handling available to them for a year if they choose to match.

So.

Is Swayman the next offer sheet?
9,100,000 offer for 5 years?
Compensation a 1st, 2nd, 3rd.


Step right up Detroit Redwings.
Cap space.
picks
savvy GM...who's a bit of a dooche.

Of course the player still has to sign it.
- Octavarium

Stevie Y is one of the coolest, classiest, and respected guys in the history of the NHL...haha

" a bit of a douche" he says...

You're conflating things. In that waiver process, you aren't taking away a choice from a team, due to the actions of a player and another team that they had zero control over. An NHL team has the choice of what to do with a player once he becomes waiver eligible. They can keep him on the NHL roster. They can choose to waive him and put him through that process. Or they can trade the player. There is not another team involved in that decision making forcing their hand. You don't seem to get that another team in the OS situation, forces their hand. Stops them from having a normal course of player handling available to them for a year if they choose to match.
- MJL

Did the Blues stop the Oilers from signing these guys before today? Did the Blues stop the Oilers from filing for salary arbitration? Saying the Oilers had "zero control" is just silly. Oilers knew if they tried to sign these guys for less than they wanted and less than other teams were willing to pay them; this might happen. Oilers decided to take this risk. They had some control of the situation.

The NHL can't set rules, like players having to play for the team that drafted them, unless players agree to it. It's illegal, at least in the US. Well, in order for players to agree to the rules, they insisted on rules being in place which would encourage teams to pay them market value. This is one of those rules. It's all part of the system, and in order for there to be rules that are disadvantageous to the players, there also had to be rules that were disadvantageous to the teams.

As a Blues fan, I'm not a fan of these signings. Inevitably, it will mean Blues will have to pay more for their own RFA's. It's not going to improve the Blues enough to warrant the consequences.

At the same time, I respect Armstrong, as the league's senior GM, doing this to Bowman. The league might have allowed him back, but he's not part of the GM club and the unwritten rules don't apply to him anymore.

Did the Blues stop the Oilers from signing these guys before today? Did the Blues stop the Oilers from filing for salary arbitration? Saying the Oilers had "zero control" is just silly. Oilers knew if they tried to sign these guys for less than they wanted and less than other teams were willing to pay them; this might happen. Oilers decided to take this risk. They had some control of the situation.

The NHL can't set rules, like players having to play for the team that drafted them, unless players agree to it. It's illegal, at least in the US. Well, in order for players to agree to the rules, they insisted on rules being in place which would encourage teams to pay them market value. This is one of those rules. It's all part of the system, and in order for there to be rules that are disadvantageous to the players, there also had to be rules that were disadvantageous to the teams.

As a Blues fan, I'm not a fan of these signings. Inevitably, it will mean Blues will have to pay more for their own RFA's. It's not going to improve the Blues enough to warrant the consequences.

At the same time, I respect Armstrong, as the league's senior GM, doing this to Bowman. The league might have allowed him back, but he's not part of the GM club and the unwritten rules don't apply to him anymore.
- Antilles

You proved my point. The Oilers were able to make decisions on agreeing to a contract. On whether to take a player to arbitration. They didn't have an option taken away from them by the actions of the player and another team.

You do realize once the offer sheet is tendered that means the players signed the contract for the deal, right?

A tendered offer doesn't mean "I'm gonna do it".
- Glak18

Don’t pick on Mrs McDavid, she’s not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Tactful move by STL. The assumption is they’ll havta let at least one of them go, and STL is likely to be happy with either one.
Seems like a big overpay for Broberg but big D-Men develop slowly and he could still pan out in a big way.
Makes ya wonder what the plan for these guys was in EDM in the first place…

Move is irrelevant for Armstrong. He wont be GM much longer.

EDM will match Holloway and let Broberg go. Broberg is too much of an overpay.

Don’t pick on Mrs McDavid, she’s not the sharpest knife in the drawer.
- K-man25

Yes, she's too worried about Hockeybuzz posters insulting Oiler players.

Yes, she's too worried about Hockeybuzz posters insulting Oiler players.
- Oildrum

I see she took a stab at Oilerdrum.
Like I said not the sharpest Knife in the drawer.

https://www.espn.com/nhl/...e-offer-sheets-two-oilers

This one says blues tendered the offer. I'm confused. Seems oil should tender their own players. Who am I.
? I don't run a website like the great oz - errr EK

You proved my point. The Oilers were able to make decisions on agreeing to a contract. On whether to take a player to arbitration. They didn't have an option taken away from them by the actions of the player and another team.
- MJL

Lol you do this every time. You start with “you proved my point” and then proceed to regurgitate what they just told you haha hysterical

So.

Is Swayman the next offer sheet?
9,100,000 offer for 5 years?
Compensation a 1st, 2nd, 3rd.


Step right up Detroit Redwings.
Cap space.
picks
savvy GM...who's a bit of a dooche.

Of course the player still has to sign it.
- Octavarium

Great thinking, then the Wings will have 4 goalies for the NHL with Husso, Talbot, Lyon and Swayman plus Campbell and Cossa in the AHL. Brilliant plan to pay 17 million of your cap in goalies with 2 of them sitting in the stands eating hotdogs. Maybe they can teach one or two of them to play forward or defense while they are at it. Totally worth paying a 1st, 2nd and 3rd round pick to cause an even bigger logjam at goalie while not leaving enough money to sign your #1 defenseman Seider and top winger Raymond.

Great thinking, then the Wings will have 4 goalies for the NHL with Husso, Talbot, Lyon and Swayman plus Campbell and Cossa in the AHL. Brilliant plan to pay 17 million of your cap in goalies with 2 of them sitting in the stands eating hotdogs. Maybe they can teach one or two of them to play forward or defense while they are at it. Totally worth paying a 1st, 2nd and 3rd round pick to cause an even bigger logjam at goalie while not leaving enough money to sign your #1 defenseman Seider and top winger Raymond.
- dcz28

"Stevie Y is one of the coolest, classiest, and respected guys in the history of the NHL...haha

" a bit of a douche" he says..."


..remember that scene in Tin Cup? "he hates old people, children and dogs".

He's not that classy.
If you know you know.
Savvy yes.

That's not how it works. A team must provide medical documentation to the league to keep a player on LTIR. A team doctor must provide that documentation. He is not going to put his medical license in jeopardy to provide fraudulent documentation. There is some grey area but not to the point where it's an agreement between player and team to fraudulently keep a player on LTIR.
- MJL

Hahaha haha! Oh really?
So thaaaaat's how it works.
No team doctors have ever blurred the lines in favor of the team budget/cap. Got it.

Hahaha haha! Oh really?
So thaaaaat's how it works.
No team doctors have ever blurred the lines in favor of the team budget/cap. Got it.
- JLO961

Doubt it. The teams and the players have gamed the system for sure.

"Stevie Y is one of the coolest, classiest, and respected guys in the history of the NHL...haha

" a bit of a douche" he says..."


..remember that scene in Tin Cup? "he hates old people, children and dogs".

He's not that classy.
If you know you know.
Savvy yes.
- Octavarium

I know quite a few guys that have played that pretty much ALL speak very highly of him, but I can't say that I've ever met Yzerman personally. He was in a foursome behind us in Muskoka once, but I've never actually met him. This would be the very first time I've heard anything at all negative.

That's not how it works. A team must provide medical documentation to the league to keep a player on LTIR. A team doctor must provide that documentation. He is not going to put his medical license in jeopardy to provide fraudulent documentation. There is some grey area but not to the point where it's an agreement between player and team to fraudulently keep a player on LTIR.
- MJL

So you actually believe Murray, Kucherov, Stone, etc. were all legitimately LTIR all through the regular season in those years and magically healed for the playoffs? Also, how precisely does the league know when a player is in pain for a condition that prevents them from being healthy? The player can claim pain whenever they want. Hossa's magical allergy condition was a particularly convenient LTIRetirement condition. If you believe LTIR is used entirely honestly, you are extremely gullible.

Did the Blues stop the Oilers from signing these guys before today? Did the Blues stop the Oilers from filing for salary arbitration? Saying the Oilers had "zero control" is just silly. Oilers knew if they tried to sign these guys for less than they wanted and less than other teams were willing to pay them; this might happen. Oilers decided to take this risk. They had some control of the situation.

The NHL can't set rules, like players having to play for the team that drafted them, unless players agree to it. It's illegal, at least in the US. Well, in order for players to agree to the rules, they insisted on rules being in place which would encourage teams to pay them market value. This is one of those rules. It's all part of the system, and in order for there to be rules that are disadvantageous to the players, there also had to be rules that were disadvantageous to the teams.

As a Blues fan, I'm not a fan of these signings. Inevitably, it will mean Blues will have to pay more for their own RFA's. It's not going to improve the Blues enough to warrant the consequences.

At the same time, I respect Armstrong, as the league's senior GM, doing this to Bowman. The league might have allowed him back, but he's not part of the GM club and the unwritten rules don't apply to him anymore.
- Antilles

Oh, no, no, no, you don't get it. When Edmonton signed Viktor Arvidsson, Jeff Skinner, Connor Brown, Corey Perry, Mattias Janmark, Adam Henrique, Josh Brown and Troy Stecher (not to mention the stupid a$$ deals with Nurse and Campbell); Armstrong, Broberg and Holloway conspired to take away their rightful option to tell Broberg and Holloway that they'd get pennies on the dollar and like it. And then the league came up with this crazy and previously unknown rule that they couldn't just match the offer and immediately flip the players somewhere else to get a higher level of compensation than the one negotiated into the RFA compensation levels. It's dastardly and an unprecedented intrusion into the Oilers ability to manage their rightfully gained assets. If Jeff Skinner and Viktor Arvidsson are available you should just be able to load up and sign them and their really shouldn't be any consequences.

So you actually believe Murray, Kucherov, Stone, etc. were all legitimately LTIR all through the regular season in those years and magically healed for the playoffs? Also, how precisely does the league know when a player is in pain for a condition that prevents them from being healthy? The player can claim pain whenever they want. Hossa's magical allergy condition was a particularly convenient LTIRetirement condition. If you believe LTIR is used entirely honestly, you are extremely gullible.
- jfkst1

I guess you didn't grasp when I posted that there is some grey area. Or when I posted that it's the players and the teams that are gaming the system. Not the doctors making fraudulent medical diagnosis to help an an NHL team circumvent the cap. When a player is coming of a long term injury and is medically cleared. The final determination is from the player on how he feels, where his fitness level is. It's very difficult for the league to police that. That's how players like Kucherov and Stone are magically healthy for the playoffs.

Oh, no, no, no, you don't get it. When Edmonton signed Viktor Arvidsson, Jeff Skinner, Connor Brown, Corey Perry, Mattias Janmark, Adam Henrique, Josh Brown and Troy Stecher (not to mention the stupid a$$ deals with Nurse and Campbell); Armstrong, Broberg and Holloway conspired to take away their rightful option to tell Broberg and Holloway that they'd get pennies on the dollar and like it. And then the league came up with this crazy and previously unknown rule that they couldn't just match the offer and immediately flip the players somewhere else to get a higher level of compensation than the one negotiated into the RFA compensation levels. It's dastardly and an unprecedented intrusion into the Oilers ability to manage their rightfully gained assets. If Jeff Skinner and Viktor Arvidsson are available you should just be able to load up and sign them and their really shouldn't be any consequences.
- FoppaForever

Who has in any way stated or inferred that a team should be able to circumvent and exceed the upper limit? With every player you named. The team made a decision with all the available options. What to sign a player for. Who to trade for etc. With those players, in what way were the player and another team able to remove options that Edmonton had for dealing with those assets?

Who has in any way stated or inferred that a team should be able to circumvent and exceed the upper limit? With every player you named. The team made a decision with all the available options. What to sign a player for. Who to trade for etc. With those players, in what way were the player and another team able to remove options that Edmonton had for dealing with those assets?
- MJL

And they made decisions knowing a rule existed preventing them from immediately trading a player whose offer sheet they matched.

And they made decisions knowing a rule existed preventing them from immediately trading a player whose offer sheet they matched.
- FoppaForever

You dodged the question.

You dodged the question.
- MJL

And you consistently dodge any discussion of the possible reasons for why the rule exists or its context within a myriad of other rules which govern the management of assets in the NHL. It's not precisely like any other restriction in the CBA therefore it doesn't make sense. The same extremely weak position can be taken against pretty much every provision of the CBA.

And you consistently dodge any discussion of the possible reasons for why the rule exists or its context within a myriad of other rules which govern the management of assets in the NHL. It's not precisely like any other restriction in the CBA therefore it doesn't make sense. The same extremely weak position can be taken against pretty much every provision of the CBA.
- FoppaForever

How can I be dodging it while stating that I disagree with the rule and the reasons why it is place. That is the entire premise of my position. You aren't making sense. You also have mischaracterized my position and reasoning for why I don't agree with part of the rule. If need be, I'll explain it to you again. Nothing to do with being different from other restrictions.