You should check Zuccarello's stats with and without Torts.
- Feanor

I agree that some coaches’ tactics work with certain players and some don’t. But the players that didn’t work? Laine, PLD, Hayes, Deangelo… it’s consistent everywhere they go. Is Zuc the only example people have?

You mean the Laine that just got traded again today?
- Phillywhiteout

What does today's trade have anything to do with Torts being wrong about Laine's optimal offensive role 4-years ago? Asking one of the leagues most dangerous pure shooters to play in front of the net with his back to the goalie was just wrongheaded.

Torts is the devil!! And yet many guys that he disposes off are constantly being shipped to different places around the league (Hayes, Angelo, RoJo and PLD). Hell, Angelo might have to go to Russia to earn a paycheck. I'm not even saying that Torts is the right coach for this team, but the disdain that some folks have for him on here cracks me up.
- Phillywhiteout

Right! Like, I’d really like a long list of players Torts ruined but once Torts was let go or fired, overcame his rain of terror. Who did Torts ruin?

It's nothing to do with urgency or jump or any other stupid hockey cliche. Torts is a coward so when the pressure goes on he prefers muckers and grinders, and the team loses.

It's the anti-skill thinking that has the Flyers as the worst PP team and the 5th worst scoring team in the league under Tortorella.
- Feanor

You honestly believe that Torts would have benched Frosty if he was producing? He had to go with the muckers and grinders cause his most skilled center is afraid of his own shadow and shrivels under the brightest lights.

It's nothing to do with urgency or jump or any other stupid hockey cliche. Torts is a coward so when the pressure goes on he prefers muckers and grinders, and the team loses.

It's the anti-skill thinking that has the Flyers as the worst PP team and the 5th worst scoring team in the league under Tortorella.
- Feanor

Then why doesn’t Tippett sit? Anti-skill? It’s a weak narrative

You might not like the cliches but I laid it out - he’s a floater and waits for the puck to come to him. Can’t do that in a must win game 82.

What does today's trade have anything to do with Torts being wrong about Laine's optimal offensive role 4-years ago? Asking one of the leagues most dangerous pure shooters to play in front of the net with his back to the goalie was just wrongheaded.
- Tomahawk

Was Laine scoring at this point? Was Torts trying to help his player to score? I’m not saying this is the right move for Patrick Laine but you’re gonna need more than one exsmple…4 years later.

Even Giroux was moved from his office from the left half wall on the PP to the right by a few coaches. We as fans knew it was a bad idea but it happens .

It's nothing to do with urgency or jump or any other stupid hockey cliche. Torts is a coward so when the pressure goes on he prefers muckers and grinders, and the team loses.

It's the anti-skill thinking that has the Flyers as the worst PP team and the 5th worst scoring team in the league under Tortorella.
- Feanor

I don’t think this is the proper definition of a coward.

What does today's trade have anything to do with Torts being wrong about Laine's optimal offensive role 4-years ago? Asking one of the leagues most dangerous pure shooters to play in front of the net with his back to the goalie was just wrongheaded.
- Tomahawk

I don't remember that to be honest and if Torts did that it was obviously a dumb idea (akin to two defenders in overtime...etc...), but the fact remains that Laine has a reputation as being soft around the league and only interested in scoring, and getting traded again today is an indication of that. Hell, know on Torts he probably put Laine in front of the net hoping that he'd get hit in the balls by a slap shot.

Torts used Poehling as the 1C in must win game 82 which they lost.
- Feanor

Ugh bad memories. He got 18:58 icetime and was ➖️ 1

You honestly believe that Torts would have benched Frosty if he was producing? He had to go with the muckers and grinders cause his most skilled center is afraid of his own shadow and shrivels under the brightest lights.
- Phillywhiteout

not like Poehling was putting up points tho

Okay, so as a top prospect and a player who is expected to produce, do you think Michkov will produce?
- roenick97

Took somebody as skilled and hockey-smart as Kucherov a good 50 or so NHL games before he found his stride and began moving up the depth chart and scoring regularly.

That's my stone cold sober expectation for Michkov.

I don't remember that to be honest and if Torts did that it was obviously a dumb idea (akin to two defenders in overtime...etc...), but the fact remains that Laine has a reputation as being soft around the league and only interested in scoring, and getting traded again today is an indication of that. Hell, know on Torts he probably put Laine in front of the net hoping that he'd get hit in the balls by a slap shot.
- Phillywhiteout

Promise I'm not poopting on the guy, because I really believe that his talent and hockey sense will transcend, but Michkov also has a reputation for being soft and only interested in scoring...

We're all so excited about him being here 2-years early that we forgot to wonder why his KHL team was willing to cut somebody like him loose. He's not the most coachable kid and he's supposedly pretty arrogant.

not like Poehling was putting up points tho
- Dkos

I guess Torts felt like it was his best change to get the equalizer. If my memory serves me correctly Poehling generated some good opportunities in that game, but he was unable to finish them. Probably better than Frosty doing figure 8's at center ice waiting for the puck to come to him.

Took somebody as skilled and hockey-smart as Kucherov a good 50 or so NHL games before he found his stride and began moving up the depth chart and scoring regularly.

That's my stone cold sober expectation for Michkov.
- Tomahawk

Okay….

Kucherov whether he had expectations or not wasn’t being coached by Torts, wasn’t drafted as high as Michkov and the Lightning already had Stamkos and Hedman as the faces of the Tampa Bay Lightning organization.

Everything and I mean everything is writing on Michkov being the future face of the Flyers. I’m not saying Michkov won’t get scratched or yelled at but to believe Michkov could get ruined because he’s 19 or Russian is such a reach.

Promise I'm not poopting on the guy, because I really believe that his talent and hockey sense will transcend, but Michkov also has a reputation for being soft and only interested in scoring...

We're all so excited about him being here 2-years early that we forgot to wonder why his KHL team was willing to cut somebody like him loose. He's not the most coachable kid and he's supposedly pretty arrogant.
- Tomahawk

Oh, I share those same concerns. We are on the same page there and it will be interesting to see how it plays out. The combination of Torts and Michkov will be interesting if not combustible. The arrogant part is my biggest concern and I do believe that Michkov will get benched at some point. I already have an over/under on one of the other sites that I am on as to how many games before he is benched and I set the over/under at 5. Many folks went with the under...lol!

not like Poehling was putting up points tho
- Dkos

Agreed but if they are both not putting up points and only one is doing the little things away from the puck and the other isn’t you don’t have much of a choice but to play the one that is doing something

Anyone remember when a certain someone said it was hysterical when I mentioned Taylor Swift/Swifties endorsing Harris the other day? I just came across an article that suggests Donnie boy put out AI generated images of Taylor and her Swifties falsely endorsing him. Ha ha!!!!!!! More legal trouble to follow. LMAO! Back to your regularly scheduled programming. Using Taylor's image without her approval? Another lawsuit for Donnie boy?
- Phillywhiteout

You're a clueless fool. What I stated was what was hysterical was your insistence that Trump can't win because Taylor Swift will endorse Harris.

It isn't tho.

It's about youth and standing. Torts will cut guys slack as long as they're producing. And he'll give the benefit of the doubt to veterans. Panarin checked both of those boxes in addition to having contract leverage over a team that famously couldn't attract top talent.

The only way Michkov will get cut slack is if he's scoring right out of the gate. Otherwise it's gonna be the usual Torts routine of break/mold/rebuild that's he's tried on countless guys in the past, regardless of draft position or nationality.

And Michkov is not gonna put up with that.
- Tomahawk

Generally yes but Tortorella also likes certain kinds of players and doesn't like certain types. He will bench and scratch some guys even when they're producing.

Torts doesn’t have a problem with skill. He has a problem with players that feel they are too skilled to have to do all the little hard things that he expects of even the 4th liners.

If you’re scoring you get a little slack. But if you’re not scoring you better be doing everything else. You don’t get a pass because it’s not apart of your “game”.

If you’re not doing anything, at least do something.

You honestly believe that Torts would have benched Frosty if he was producing? He had to go with the muckers and grinders cause his most skilled center is afraid of his own shadow and shrivels under the brightest lights.
- Phillywhiteout

He was producing more and playing better defensively than the player that Tortorella played 19 minutes in a must win game. So was Brink. Who was also benched.

You honestly believe that Torts would have benched Frosty if he was producing? He had to go with the muckers and grinders cause his most skilled center is afraid of his own shadow and shrivels under the brightest lights.
- Phillywhiteout

He was producing more and playing better defensively than the player that Tortorella played 19 minutes in a must win game. So was Brink. Who was also benched.

I guess Torts felt like it was his best change to get the equalizer. If my memory serves me correctly Poehling generated some good opportunities in that game, but he was unable to finish them. Probably better than Frosty doing figure 8's at center ice waiting for the puck to come to him.
- Phillywhiteout

Tortorella always feels like the grinders give them a better chance. That's why he's not a good coach.

Agreed but if they are both not putting up points and only one is doing the little things away from the puck and the other isn’t you don’t have much of a choice but to play the one that is doing something
- anti-lame

I'm not an analytics guy, but I'm guessing that the numbers do not support Tort's choice there.

Okay….

Kucherov whether he had expectations or not wasn’t being coached by Torts, wasn’t drafted as high as Michkov and the Lightning already had Stamkos and Hedman as the faces of the Tampa Bay Lightning organization.

Everything and I mean everything is writing on Michkov being the future face of the Flyers. I’m not saying Michkov won’t get scratched or yelled at but to believe Michkov could get ruined because he’s 19 or Russian is such a reach.
- roenick97

Michkov isn't gonna get a clear path to 1RW/1PP. GMDB already said as much. And remember Michkov still has to leapfrog TK and Tipp for the top offensive minutes. Torts already knows and loves those two.

Michkov will probably start with pretty limited minutes and have to work his way up, just like Kucherov did in Tampa. Maybe they'll even make him earn a spot on the PP. Chances are high that he'll be saddled with a defensive center and somebody like Cates or Hathaway on his other wing until they trust him defensively and/or he gets strong enough to fend for himself.

All the face of the franchise stuff is really not a major part of the equation. At the end of the day we're talking about a 5'9/5'10 rookie who's never played in NA before.

I'm not an analytics guy, but I'm guessing that the numbers do not support Tort's choice there.
- Dkos

And you would be correct.