Has a player ever been less than complimentary of another fellow NHLer? Sounds to me like they're giving the standard cliche response.

The ONLY thing I care about is the playoffs, and the ONLY player that has consistently played well in them is Nylander.

That being said, I don't know WTF was up with Willy missing so many games last post-season. All in all this bunch has been very frustrating. But they're close...
- Whipper

I think what MacKinnon is saying is that Marner is a great player.

He's come to play.

Colorado needs to respect him.

Yet they have to play their game - not let Marner dictate the play.

Just take it a shift at a time.

Focus on doing the little things right.

I think what MacKinnon is saying is that Marner is a great player.

He's come to play.

Colorado needs to respect him.

Yet they have to play their game - not let Marner dictate the play.

Just take it a shift at a time.

Focus on doing the little things right.
- Atomic Wedgie

I find it embarrassing that so many Leaf fans are so quick to criticize Marner when the world's best and often most highly regarded competitive players would love to have him on their team. If Marner was such a disappearing act I'm not sure O'Rielly or MacKinnon would speak so highly of him.

Now, noting once again because I always have to say this - that I do like Nylander - I've never heard anyone in the NHL talk up Nylander's skill as being elite - but we've all heard a significant number of the world's most respectable players say great things about Mitch.

Having never played to any degree close to where they are, you sort of have to defer to their knowledge and awareness.
- Monkeypunk

I find it embarrassing how many excuses are made for so many Leaf players who fail to perform when it matter - the Playoffs.

Being skilled means jack poop if you can't apply that skill when it's needed - pretty sure my boss isn't going to give me a big fat raise because I have the ability to do something but don't do it.

I prefer to form my own opinions on the level of criticism a player should get based on my observations of their performance vs what one of their union brothers says about them - which by the way was that Maner is talented AF (and we all know this) and that it's tough to play in Toronto.

Maybe Willy isn't spoken about as much by these superstars because he doesn't come across as a pouty child who needs someone to protect/support him? He looks & acts like a very talented guy who has a much higher level of confidence and cares way less about bad media and angry fans than Marner.

If I had to pick between the 2 players (and I'm glad the Leafs don't have to right now but they may have to one day soon) I'd take Willy because I just think he has the stronger mental ability to move past defeat, criticism and the Toronto market.

I find it embarrassing that so many Leaf fans are so quick to criticize Marner when the world's best and often most highly regarded competitive players would love to have him on their team. If Marner was such a disappearing act I'm not sure O'Rielly or MacKinnon would speak so highly of him.

Now, noting once again because I always have to say this - that I do like Nylander - I've never heard anyone in the NHL talk up Nylander's skill as being elite - but we've all heard a significant number of the world's most respectable players say great things about Mitch.

Having never played to any degree close to where they are, you sort of have to defer to their knowledge and awareness.
- Monkeypunk

That's a long standing Leaf fan tradition. Bash the best players on your team, till they're traded, and go on to massive success somewhere else.

Marner is an elite winger, top 3 or 4 in the league easily. Trading him would be stupid.

I get that it's frustrating this team has not made it over the hump, but they're a good team. Unless you're getting an elite piece and more, you keep Marner and fill they holes, do'nt create them.

Yes, I know there is no salary room. and this year will be tough. What was the latest on Tavares? What does he want for a new contract? Any more than 6 and you cut him loose.

I find it embarrassing how many excuses are made for so many Leaf players who fail to perform when it matter - the Playoffs.

Being skilled means jack poop if you can't apply that skill when it's needed - pretty sure my boss isn't going to give me a big fat raise because I have the ability to do something but don't do it.

I prefer to form my own opinions on the level of criticism a player should get based on my observations of their performance vs what one of their union brothers says about them - which by the way was that Maner is talented AF (and we all know this) and that it's tough to play in Toronto.

Mayne Willy isn't spoken about as much by these superstars because he doesn't come across as a pouty child who needs someone to protect/support him? He looks & acts like a very talented guy who has a much higher level of confidence and cares way less about bad media and angry fans than Marner.

If I had to pick between the 2 players (and I'm glad the Leafs don't have to right now but they may have to one day soon) I'd take Willy because I just think he has the stronger mental ability to move past defeat, criticism and the Toronto market.
- Cush29

I'm not convinced there isn't an element of luck in all this. Every team has cold streaks and hot streaks. And the difference in caliber of playoff teams is not much. On top of that, the Atlantic is a beeatch of a division.

Every team "fails to perform in the playoffs", until they do. Is that, just a matter of things clicking at the right time? or is this that certain players "get it"?

Colorado is stacked, but where have they gone lately? If it really is a matter of certain teams being playoff performers, I would think Colorado would not have crashed out in the first and second round the last two years, because they have the players to win more cups for sure.

That's a long standing Leaf fan tradition. Bash the best players on your team, till they're traded, and go on to massive success somewhere else.

Marner is an elite winger, top 3 or 4 in the league easily. Trading him would be stupid.

I get that it's frustrating this team has not made it over the hump, but they're a good team. Unless you're getting an elite piece and more, you keep Marner and fill they holes, do'nt create them.

Yes, I know there is no salary room. and this year will be tough. What was the latest on Tavares? What does he want for a new contract? Any more than 6 and you cut him loose.
- prock

You're a Vegas Fan, your team trades their best players like I change my underwear - weekly.


No knowledgeable fan would argue that Marner is not an elite talent, Toronto just has too much $ invested in too narrow a place. It has left them unable to balance the roster with the level of talent needed for a deep playoff run. It was assumed loading up on offense would allow for them to be softer in other areas but it hasn't panned out.

The plan for this approach can be laid at the feet of Shanny, and GMs (plural because Uncle Lou was a part of this), the inability to get it done falls on the players.

So time to change the approach or the players. You can choose to stick to the same approach but I think nobody (including MLSE) thinks changing the players but sticking to the same approach is the path to take.

They have to wait for JT's contract to come off the books before they have any real play money to try and change the approach but they also have Nylander's big raise coming now and Marner will want a bigger slice of the pie too.

They may have to get rid of something they don't want to, in order to fix this thing.

It's great to have 5 high end sports cars in your garage but when you need to work the fields you need a tractor to plow, a combine to harvest etc. The way this is going if they don't change something they will simply not have the money to buy the other vehicles they need to be successful and will just be left looking at the 'pretty cars' while sucking as farmers.

I mean you can still impress the ladies with 4 or 3 sports cards over 5 no?

Replace snapper with washer and he might be of some use to the leafs afterall
- Dozzer

Change towel with ball and you've got it fully right.

I'm not convinced there isn't an element of luck in all this. Every team has cold streaks and hot streaks. And the difference in caliber of playoff teams is not much. On top of that, the Atlantic is a beeatch of a division.

Every team "fails to perform in the playoffs", until they do. Is that, just a matter of things clicking at the right time? or is this that certain players "get it"?

Colorado is stacked, but where have they gone lately? If it really is a matter of certain teams being playoff performers, I would think Colorado would not have crashed out in the first and second round the last two years, because they have the players to win more cups for sure.
- prock

Sure luck comes into play and as much as Oilers fans don't want to hear it the Leafs have a tougher playoff opponent in round 1 pretty much every single year than the Oilers - hell probably even round 2! *(yes that one time in forever they had a round 2 opponent).


That being said they are where they are so they have to adapt if they want to overcome.

Yes 31 teams fail before one of them doesn't but these teams make changes, big changes for the ones who are the most successful more often than not - the Leafs haven't made any big changes since......well this core started really. Signing JT was the biggest thing they did - adding to the offense.

I don't follow Colarado very closely but didn't they lose some fairly substantial talent after winning like Kadri? Players win and want more $, some teams have been better at having players agree to take less to stay in teh past but even that seems to be fading - look at Boston and their standoff with Sway right now, Stammer leaving Tampa etc. Those 2 clubs were the ones who seemed to excel at finding talent that other teams didn't so well via draft (like the old Red Wings did) AND getting players to sign to stay or come to that team for less than they could get elsewhere.

Toronto will NEVER have that luxury (players staying or coming for less than value) except for vets looking to 'come home' or guys looking for a 1 year deal to increase their value.

Some teams have luxuries others don't like low taxes, guys taking less or top end medical & training staff etc. Toronto has the 3rd of those 3 things and will likely never have the first 2 - this is what it is.

prock isn't a Vegas fan...

I'm not convinced there isn't an element of luck in all this. Every team has cold streaks and hot streaks. And the difference in caliber of playoff teams is not much. On top of that, the Atlantic is a beeatch of a division.

Every team "fails to perform in the playoffs", until they do. Is that, just a matter of things clicking at the right time? or is this that certain players "get it"?

Colorado is stacked, but where have they gone lately? If it really is a matter of certain teams being playoff performers, I would think Colorado would not have crashed out in the first and second round the last two years, because they have the players to win more cups for sure.
- prock

This, 1000%. How many teams that eliminated the Leafs went on to the cup finals? A BUNCH. The Leafs lost game 7 OT last year, after missing a TONNE of big players. Boston goes on the lose in 6 to the team that wins the cup. If the Leafs were healthy, they would have beat Boston. Could they have beat Florida? Depends on their luck...

prock isn't a Vegas fan...
- AdamFrench

all I know is that we're both proper Trashers diehards

This, 1000%. How many teams that eliminated the Leafs went on to the cup finals? A BUNCH. The Leafs lost game 7 OT last year, after missing a TONNE of big players. Boston goes on the lose in 6 to the team that wins the cup. If the Leafs were healthy, they would have beat Boston. Could they have beat Florida? Depends on their luck...
- Whipper

Leafs lost to Swayman and injuries, not the Bruins.

I find it embarrassing how many excuses are made for so many Leaf players who fail to perform when it matter - the Playoffs.

Being skilled means jack poop if you can't apply that skill when it's needed - pretty sure my boss isn't going to give me a big fat raise because I have the ability to do something but don't do it.

I prefer to form my own opinions on the level of criticism a player should get based on my observations of their performance vs what one of their union brothers says about them - which by the way was that Maner is talented AF (and we all know this) and that it's tough to play in Toronto.

Maybe Willy isn't spoken about as much by these superstars because he doesn't come across as a pouty child who needs someone to protect/support him? He looks & acts like a very talented guy who has a much higher level of confidence and cares way less about bad media and angry fans than Marner.

If I had to pick between the 2 players (and I'm glad the Leafs don't have to right now but they may have to one day soon) I'd take Willy because I just think he has the stronger mental ability to move past defeat, criticism and the Toronto market.
- Cush29

I'm glad you think you know more about hockey than some of the best players in the world.

That's a long standing Leaf fan tradition. Bash the best players on your team, till they're traded, and go on to massive success somewhere else.

- prock

"I'm Rocko from Woodbridge.

Long time listener, love your show.

Why don't the Leafs make Tie Domi the captain?

Imma hang up and listen."

That's a long standing Leaf fan tradition. Bash the best players on your team, till they're traded, and go on to massive success somewhere else.

Marner is an elite winger, top 3 or 4 in the league easily. Trading him would be stupid.

I get that it's frustrating this team has not made it over the hump, but they're a good team. Unless you're getting an elite piece and more, you keep Marner and fill they holes, do'nt create them.

Yes, I know there is no salary room. and this year will be tough. What was the latest on Tavares? What does he want for a new contract? Any more than 6 and you cut him loose.
- prock

True statements

"I'm Rocko from Woodbridge.

Long time listener, love your show.

Why don't the Leafs make Tie Domi the captain?

Imma hang up and listen."
- Atomic Wedgie

lol

I knew a guy who had a blue number 17 tattooed over his heart and wore a full Leafs track suit to games. I would frequently hear him call in to talk radio, saying that no team has ever won a Cup without at least a Canadian captain or Canadian goalie and how the Leafs need more Colton Orr. He would get hung up on by the radio guys often.

Leafs lost to Swayman and injuries, not the Bruins.
- underhill14

dont forget the Power play

Change towel with ball and you've got it fully right.
- underhill14

Sure, I mean It does rhyme with afterall *shrugs*

dont forget the Power play
- senstroll

What power play?

dont forget the Power play
- senstroll

no pucks over the net??

Sure luck comes into play and as much as Oilers fans don't want to hear it the Leafs have a tougher playoff opponent in round 1 pretty much every single year than the Oilers - hell probably even round 2! *(yes that one time in forever they had a round 2 opponent).


That being said they are where they are so they have to adapt if they want to overcome.

Yes 31 teams fail before one of them doesn't but these teams make changes, big changes for the ones who are the most successful more often than not - the Leafs haven't made any big changes since......well this core started really. Signing JT was the biggest thing they did - adding to the offense.

I don't follow Colarado very closely but didn't they lose some fairly substantial talent after winning like Kadri? Players win and want more $, some teams have been better at having players agree to take less to stay in teh past but even that seems to be fading - look at Boston and their standoff with Sway right now, Stammer leaving Tampa etc. Those 2 clubs were the ones who seemed to excel at finding talent that other teams didn't so well via draft (like the old Red Wings did) AND getting players to sign to stay or come to that team for less than they could get elsewhere.

Toronto will NEVER have that luxury (players staying or coming for less than value) except for vets looking to 'come home' or guys looking for a 1 year deal to increase their value.

Some teams have luxuries others don't like low taxes, guys taking less or top end medical & training staff etc. Toronto has the 3rd of those 3 things and will likely never have the first 2 - this is what it is.
- Cush29

But, you're wrong, they've made piles of changes.

When this core started, they're second and third line centres were Kadri and Bozak. Their D consisted of Mo Rielly and GArdiner, Zaitsev, Polak, and Hunwick. JVR was first line winger. Gardiner was tossed because he was a turnover machine. the rest were just garbage. They've brought in Muzzin, Holl, Bogosian, Giordano, Connor Timmins, Brodie, among others. They've made attempts at rectifying the D, which was an obvious weakness (despite not having much budget to do so). Now I know you'll knock these, but Giordano was fresh off a Norris, Muzzin was in his prime on a recent cup team playing key minutes (ended up an injury problem). Some of these were very good attempts.

The team was criticized for being too soft, they've brought in Domi, Bertuzzi, Bunting, with various levels of success.

They've made a pile of changes, and have worked at addressing all the major holes.

Most of the recent cup winners, most of the core was together for quite a few years, and then added a piece or two to push them over the top. Colorado, mackinnon, rantanen, landeskog, they were avs for like a decade before they won. The only core piece they added was Makar (helluva good piece, yeah). The bolts had Stamkos, kucherov, Hedman, for like a decade too. Even Point and Vasi, who were probably the newcomers to the core, were there 5 or 6 years.

Florida making a major swap and launching them to the top is the exception, not the rule.

It would be nice to stumble on a Cale Makar or soemthing, but regardless, trading away elite players is not a path to win a cup. Adding to them is.

prock isn't a Vegas fan...
- AdamFrench

I clearly made the mistake of thinking Prock listed the team he cheers for in his profile info.

For whom does Prock cheer for?
For whom does the bell toll?

"I'm Rocko from Woodbridge.

Long time listener, love your show.

Why don't the Leafs make Tie Domi the captain?

Imma hang up and listen."
- Atomic Wedgie

I think the Leafs need to trade for that guy Horton. You know, that guy that plays with Choochoo.

prock isn't a Vegas fan...
- AdamFrench

I go back longer than most people here!

all I know is that we're both proper Trashers diehards
- 21peter

*Stares at my limited edition man cave featuring Goalvalchuk/Hossa/Lehtonen Jerseys and Heatley Car Bust*