Chunk, what do you think the organIzations expectations were as the signed guys in the offseason and I guess what were yours? I bet the Hawks said at camp you never know but realistically they didn't want Bedard and the young Dmen to get slaughtered 7 out 10 games. ..... Last yr was dangerous to development and I think they realized that. So they acquire legit NHL players.

And instead of tapping away I'd add just two examples of how they are a proper NHL team. ....... Bedard was killed in the fancies last yr and the last I checked this yr he's at a 50% xGF. Kid was minus 100 last yr(?) and his fancies showed that and this yr he's at 50%GF which is a huge jump.

They have been within 1 goal at least in 17ish outa 19ish games in the 3rd period. That is a competitive team and conducive to development as Bedard's fancies show.

You never know but IMO the Hawks are pleased 20 games in organIzationally and I know I am no matter wins and losses which will in the end show a solid out talented (scoring goals) squad. Whatever that ends up being if club plays as they have the first 20 and development of the young players continues it will have been a successful step forward in the rebuild which is not in yr 2 from a total tear down.
- Mr Ricochet

That's a good point.

Considering the players signed, my expectation was much more structure in their own end and more sustained pressure (and thus production) on offense. Thus far, I think the defense portion is notably improved. I think they are horribly underperforming on offense. That's not just Bedard's low conversion rate. I thought the D-men would have more production. To a degree they have, but I kind of expected more.

I thought with a healthy Hall, TT and Bertuzzi, combined with Kurashev even being 3/4 of what he was last year the scoring totals would be middle of the pack. almost half of their forwards last year didn't belong inthe NHL. I get why they got Mikheyev, but thought he was superfluous considering the roster was mostly 3-4 line players. You didn't need another. They basically got another Donato. With the guys they brought in and had coming back, it amazes me that Kurashev is able to sneak himself into the top 6.

I'll call it now (not that it's much of a stretch), Reichel will be part of a trade this year. He's sort of getting it, but he just doesn't see the game well enough for the coaches and FO to really get excited about him (i.e. I don't think he brings anything that one of the prospects coming up doesn't or can't).
- Chunk

You're starting to see Vlasic get to a level of comfort where he's attacking the offensive zone and pinching and looking good doing it.

The ass end of the year could get really interesting as he and Kaiser get more comfortable and maybe someone like Nazar or an acquisition comes in and gives the offense a spark.

Has the playoff drive begun?

Well, given the results in Detroit, the rebuild has several years to go before relevance. We're not expecting better results from KFC than from Stevie, are we?
- mohel

I would. The Hawks have picked in the top 2 twice which should give them a massive advantage unless they (frank)ed up the levshunov pick.

Keith was over 25 from 24-34.

from when stats were available Lidstrom skated over 26 for a lot of years and over 27 for 6 of his Norris years with one of them being 28.

Makar skates between 24-26 per year.

Josi skates about 25. Heiskanen about 25.

I think that's just what you have your no 1 do.

If the Hawks are in the 75 point range I think they exercise the option and let LR run another season. It's not like he's some Jeremy Colliton figure who appeared from Europe and tried to reinvent the wheel. He's played 1400 NHL games, paid his dues as an assistant and head coach in the AHL - as long as there isn't a complete debacle I think that is a guy you give a shot to.

He also explains the game well to the fans and gives way more detail than typical hockey coaches do. Q was a great coach but his pressers were worthless.

Maybe he's a Steve Kerr type coach and once the talent arrives you'll see something different. Or Greg Popp is another one who came in bascically when Duncan arrived and he's had a nice forever gig.

When he first started the type of team he described was like the Avalanche, Florida, Tampa or even Vegas to a certain degree. Puck transitions quickly and efficiently from D to O and you smother your opponent in chances for. They haven't had the team or the talent to execute that - even this year but if you look at Kaiser, Vlasic, Bedards tremendous progress away from the puck and defensively - there's a lot of good signs that he could be more than a place holder.

Reichel has improved but it's still tough to say if he's just a million dollar arm with a 10 cent head and that isn't on the coaching staff.
- fattybeef

I would let all those guys play 25 minutes a game because they can handle it. I really don't think we have a quality 25 minute defenseman yet. Vlasic is a fantastic 21 to 22 minute dman for now but we saw his play deteriorating in that 4 game stretch of playing 25 or over minutes a game. The other night with a few game break he looked great against the wild.

You may be right about Reichel but at 22 you can't take the risk of trading him and him turning into a top 6 player. He's got the same amout of points as Sharp had in less professional games at 2 years younger. Hell i wouldn't mind him on the 4th line with Smith and Maroon, it gives you a guy who can flip the ice in a second and Smith knows to be ready to fire the puck. Just really simple hockey that works.

I would. The Hawks have picked in the top 2 twice which should give them a massive advantage unless they (frank)ed up the levshunov pick.
- fattybeef

They really need some size in the top 6 either C of FW. Look at Florida, Vegas, and Dallas. I typically like the best available approach but this draft I would be ok if they targeted size that can skate to play in top 6.

They really need some size in the top 6 either C of FW. Look at Florida, Vegas, and Dallas. I typically like the best available approach but this draft I would be ok if they targeted size that can skate to play in top 6.
- bhawks2241

That is why I hope C. Dach gets a call up at some point, see how he handles the NHL. he also seems to be the type of player that would be better with more structure in the NHL than the AHL,

That is also why I wolud target Rantanen over Marner if that choice ever came, and the Hawks decide to go after the top free agents this year.

I would let all those guys play 25 minutes a game because they can handle it. I really don't think we have a quality 25 minute defenseman yet. Vlasic is a fantastic 21 to 22 minute dman for now but we saw his play deteriorating in that 4 game stretch of playing 25 or over minutes a game. The other night with a few game break he looked great against the wild.

You may be right about Reichel but at 22 you can't take the risk of trading him and him turning into a top 6 player. He's got the same amout of points as Sharp had in less professional games at 2 years younger. Hell i wouldn't mind him on the 4th line with Smith and Maroon, it gives you a guy who can flip the ice in a second and Smith knows to be ready to fire the puck. Just really simple hockey that works.
- BetweenTheDots

Correlation does not equal causation. Do we know that Vlasic's improvement was because he had rest, or because the rest of the team started doing what it was supposed to? The ability to play 25 mins per night comes down to endurance. Do they have the physical ability to hold up under that workload?

Re Reichel, the bolded is what holds good teams back from being consistently good (IMO). They wait and wait for "their guys" to break through when they will only be mediocre at best. They've got him locked in for a year after this. I don't really have a problem with them holding onto him for the duration, but if he's the same guy that he is now, you cut bait and let someone else take that spot.

He's deep under water in every category outside of actual GF/GA. As we keep saying with Bedard, if he keeps doing what he's doing, the shots will start going in the net. Unfortunately, with Reichel, those will be for the opposition.

Correlation does not equal causation. Do we know that Vlasic's improvement was because he had rest, or because the rest of the team started doing what it was supposed to? The ability to play 25 mins per night comes down to endurance. Do they have the physical ability to hold up under that workload?

Re Reichel, the bolded is what holds good teams back from being consistently good (IMO). They wait and wait for "their guys" to break through when they will only be mediocre at best. They've got him locked in for a year after this. I don't really have a problem with them holding onto him for the duration, but if he's the same guy that he is now, you cut bait and let someone else take that spot.

He's deep under water in every category outside of actual GF/GA. As we keep saying with Bedard, if he keeps doing what he's doing, the shots will start going in the net. Unfortunately, with Reichel, those will be for the opposition.
- Chunk

You have to give Reichel more time, you can’t teach speed and you can’t teach hands, he has those two attributes. I also like that he’s more engaged in board battles and actually winning some. For now, you have to keep him at a minimum for the duration of his current contract unless KD gets an offer he can’t refuse.

That is why I hope C. Dach gets a call up at some point, see how he handles the NHL. he also seems to be the type of player that would be better with more structure in the NHL than the AHL,

That is also why I wolud target Rantanen over Marner if that choice ever came, and the Hawks decide to go after the top free agents this year.
- LAHawk

Well, that and I'd posit that Rantanen is a better overall player.

That is why I hope C. Dach gets a call up at some point, see how he handles the NHL. he also seems to be the type of player that would be better with more structure in the NHL than the AHL,

That is also why I wolud target Rantanen over Marner if that choice ever came, and the Hawks decide to go after the top free agents this year.
- LAHawk

I don’t disagree and would also like a call up of Dach at some point, however I’m not sure he helps with their scoring deficiencies. I know most want a 2C, but so does everyone else, what they need is a Matt Boldy type to play with Bedard, now that would be awesome.

I don’t disagree and would also like a call up of Dach at some point, however I’m not sure he helps with their scoring deficiencies. I know most want a 2C, but so does everyone else, what they need is a Matt Boldy type to play with Bedard, now that would be awesome.
- Angotti

Bedard's line seems to function best with Foligno on it. If Dach can be Foligon light, or eventually Foligno, that would be a win. Bertuzzi was for the most part on Matthews line last year when he scored 70, although Bertuzzi only had 43 points which is about his NHL average.

That is why I hope C. Dach gets a call up at some point, see how he handles the NHL. he also seems to be the type of player that would be better with more structure in the NHL than the AHL,

That is also why I wolud target Rantanen over Marner if that choice ever came, and the Hawks decide to go after the top free agents this year.
- LAHawk

Again - not sure how 6'4 193 is stronger/better on the boards or able to plant in front of the net better than 5'9 175 or 5'11 185.

Dach is tall but based on his card, probably not very strong and is going to end up injured and on his ass a lot like his brother because there is no lead there. Guttman would be more effective IMO.

The kid is 21 and on his second pro season and should be at 200 and working to get up to 210. Contrary to popular belief (even heard Reichel mention this as to why he didn't add more weight) adding muscle proportionate to your frame will now slow you down and for someone who isn't the best skater it is going to give them a nice advantage.

Correlation does not equal causation. Do we know that Vlasic's improvement was because he had rest, or because the rest of the team started doing what it was supposed to? The ability to play 25 mins per night comes down to endurance. Do they have the physical ability to hold up under that workload?

Re Reichel, the bolded is what holds good teams back from being consistently good (IMO). They wait and wait for "their guys" to break through when they will only be mediocre at best. They've got him locked in for a year after this. I don't really have a problem with them holding onto him for the duration, but if he's the same guy that he is now, you cut bait and let someone else take that spot.

He's deep under water in every category outside of actual GF/GA. As we keep saying with Bedard, if he keeps doing what he's doing, the shots will start going in the net. Unfortunately, with Reichel, those will be for the opposition.
- Chunk

A lot is mental as well. 25 minutes of engaged pro level the sport is probably different from 20.

I think its pretty clear at this point, the the Hawks and KD, have moved in front of Bears and Poles in the race for the best tear down / rebuild. Don't care what others say, I like LR and think he'll be a very good coach for a long time when he has talent.

Poles f'd up bad keeping Flus, and not hiring a Offensive HC to go with Caleb, and should've bought and drafted a couple more Olineman, especially up the middle.

Their T when heathly are serviceable, but they need maulers at G and C to keep pocket clean. They'll have another top 5 pick and probably 2 top 10s in the second round, he better focus on both lines next FA and draft.
- vabeachbear

You're asking a lot to go from nothing to playoffs in two years with a rookie quarterback. The fans were unrealistic. There's more holes than that to fill with 22 starters, special teams and bench as we're seeing now.

Yep. Detroit and Chicago have a similar problem, imo; neither has enough high-end (dare I say, elite?) talent.
- mohel

Stop yourself! They have Dinky and Kane.

Again - not sure how 6'4 193 is stronger/better on the boards or able to plant in front of the net better than 5'9 175 or 5'11 185.

Dach is tall but based on his card, probably not very strong and is going to end up injured and on his ass a lot like his brother because there is no lead there. Guttman would be more effective IMO.

The kid is 21 and on his second pro season and should be at 200 and working to get up to 210. Contrary to popular belief (even heard Reichel mention this as to why he didn't add more weight) adding muscle proportionate to your frame will now slow you down and for someone who isn't the best skater it is going to give them a nice advantage.
- fattybeef

No but 6'-3" 225 is.

You have to give Reichel more time, you can’t teach speed and you can’t teach hands, he has those two attributes. I also like that he’s more engaged in board battles and actually winning some. For now, you have to keep him at a minimum for the duration of his current contract unless KD gets an offer he can’t refuse.
- Angotti

But theoretically they should have been teaching him how to play hockey. Like the two (frank)ing years he spent in Rockford.

He is bad off the puck. He is bad defensively. Those are things that require no skill.

He looks very good with the puck on his blade attacking with time and space but you could say that about a million other prospects.

The little and simple things he should be doing well because they "developed him" and had all that [I]valuable time in the minors[/I] for what that was worth.

The tools are irrelevant if he can't be at least close to a competent hockey player.

Kurashev is not dissimilar. Very toolsy but not competent off the puck or defensively and players like that don't have a place on good teams.

Reichel needs to start showing that he knows where to be on the ice and how to read the play as it develops. Everyone can see the tools, it's the stuff off the puck and on the other side of it that need to start clicking for him to warrant anymore playing time.

No but 6'-3" 225 is.
- rpeters01

Rantanen is 6'4 215 but same difference. Also he's not leaving Colorado.

With the money dropping off this year and the cap going up they will have no problems paying him 12-14 million per year since he's already at 9 and a quarter.

You have to give Reichel more time, you can’t teach speed and you can’t teach hands, he has those two attributes. I also like that he’s more engaged in board battles and actually winning some. For now, you have to keep him at a minimum for the duration of his current contract unless KD gets an offer he can’t refuse.
- Angotti

I don't HAVE to do anything.

Can you teach hockey IQ? In theory you can, but we've seen in one offseason Bedard be much more responsible over the entire sheet, where Reichel - in basically his third offseason - actually regress in most of his metrics. I'm just saying, if he is the same guy at the end of the year that he is right now, and just has about 40 pts to go with it, I'd sell "high" on him.

Stop yourself! They have Dinky and Kane.
- rpeters01

And Gustafsson !!

Again - not sure how 6'4 193 is stronger/better on the boards or able to plant in front of the net better than 5'9 175 or 5'11 185.

Dach is tall but based on his card, probably not very strong and is going to end up injured and on his ass a lot like his brother because there is no lead there. Guttman would be more effective IMO.

The kid is 21 and on his second pro season and should be at 200 and working to get up to 210. Contrary to popular belief (even heard Reichel mention this as to why he didn't add more weight) adding muscle proportionate to your frame will now slow you down and for someone who isn't the best skater it is going to give them a nice advantage.
- fattybeef

Actually, if you watch the Icehog games, Dach seems to be pretty strong. I've watched three full games and parts of two others and he's actually noticeable in that regard. Seems to stay on his skates and not get knocked off the puck.

Actually, if you watch the Icehog games, Dach seems to be pretty strong. I've watched three full games and parts of two others and he's actually noticeable in that regard. Seems to stay on his skates and not get knocked off the puck.
- Chunk

The narrative is Dach is like his brother and can’t stay on his feet. Please stick to the narrative.

The narrative is Dach is like his brother and can’t stay on his feet. Please stick to the narrative.
- paulr

Obviously... until I see it with my own eyes and not just look at numbers.

I don't HAVE to do anything.

Can you teach hockey IQ? In theory you can, but we've seen in one offseason Bedard be much more responsible over the entire sheet, where Reichel - in basically his third offseason - actually regress in most of his metrics. I'm just saying, if he is the same guy at the end of the year that he is right now, and just has about 40 pts to go with it, I'd sell "high" on him.
- Chunk

I’m sure that your wife differs with that statement. Yes, Reichel has a long way to go, however the eye test tells me that he’s trending in the right direction, obviously the fancies don’t. We’ll see where he ends up. Go Hawks!

That is why I hope C. Dach gets a call up at some point, see how he handles the NHL. he also seems to be the type of player that would be better with more structure in the NHL than the AHL,

That is also why I wolud target Rantanen over Marner if that choice ever came, and the Hawks decide to go after the top free agents this year.
- LAHawk

He'll probably handle it worse than Haydn, Quenville and Entwistle.