[quote=Chunk]Re-watch the replay. He never stops moving his feet. He had to turn and take an angle where Jarvis was going straight line. That play was 100% on Bedard. Bedard was brutal in this game with his decision making.

No, he's not worth his contract, but he's back to being a good defender/player.
- LAHawk[/quote

Not many of the top salaried defenseman are "worth the money".

1 Erik Karlsson Pittsburgh Penguins $11.5 million
T-2 Rasmus Dahlin Buffalo Sabres $11 million
T-2 Drew Doughty Los Angeles Kings $11 million
4 Zachary Werenski Columbus Blue Jackets $9.58 million
T-5 Charles Mcavoy Boston Bruins $9.5 million
T-5 Seth Jones Chicago Blackhawks $9.5 million
T-5 Adam Fox New York Rangers $9.5 million
8 Darnell Nurse Edmonton Oilers $9.25 million
9 Roman Josi Nashville Predators $9.06 million
T-10 Cale Makar Colorado Avalanche $9 million
T-10 Dougie Hamilton New Jersey Devils $9 million
12 Alex Pietrangelo Vegas Golden Knights $8.8 million
13 Moritz Seider Detroit Red Wings $8.55 million
14 Mikhail Sergachev Utah Hockey Club $8.5 million
15 Miro Heiskanen Dallas Stars $8.45 million
16 Owen Power Buffalo Sabres $8.35 million
T-17 Brent Burns Carolina Hurricanes $8 million
T-17 Jacob Trouba New York Rangers $8 million
T-17 Jake Sanderson Ottawa Senators $8 million
T-17 Thomas Chabot Ottawa Senators $8 million
T-17 John Carlson Washington Capitals $8 million
22 Victor Hedman Tampa Bay Lightning $7.88 million
23 Shea Weber Utah Hockey Club $7.86 million
24 Quinn Hughes Vancouver Canucks $7.85 million
25 Dmitry Orlov Carolina Hurricanes $7.75 million]

It's a mixed bag for sure. Some guys on the list are outstanding value, like Quinn Huges and some guys are questionable. I think in some cases Dman contracts don't age well and a few guys were handed big money really quickly in recent seasons, maybe a bit premature.

Stop it. The Hawks are the only ones who sign bad contracts.
- Chunk

Are they really bad? Appears to me they are market rate.

How much is Chychrun going to get as a potential UFA. How much is Bouchard going to get as an RFA?

That list of D contracts and Slavin is not on it. He is a bargain for the Canes.

Are they really bad? Appears to me they are market rate.

How much is Chychrun going to get as a potential UFA. How much is Bouchard going to get as an RFA?
- LAHawk

That was kinda my point. In general, there are very few that match the value of the player. Most are above or below, and as the player ages, most of them look worse.

Re-watch the replay. He never stops moving his feet. He had to turn and take an angle where Jarvis was going straight line. That play was 100% on Bedard. Bedard was brutal in this game with his decision making.

No, he's not worth his contract, but he's back to being a good defender/player.
- Chunk

So you aren't going to call out his lack of awareness. His 1st move was to turn and skate backwards then he realizes Jarvis is sprinting up ice and by the time he turns back around to catch up its to late. There was a sequence in the 3rd he looked like Brodie because he got burned at the blue line and all he did was chase the play in his own end until Mrazek bailed him out.

That was kinda my point. In general, there are very few that match the value of the player. Most are above or below, and as the player ages, most of them look worse.
- Chunk

And that is how the CBA has set up the salary structure, for the first 3 years you get minimum wages (plus bonuses), the next 4 years since you restricted, you generally will get less than market (there are different rules if you reach 27, etc. etc. but the majority of UFA's are after 7 years of an NHL contract (let's see if offer sheets become more prevelant), and so when year 8 comes, and the player is in his prime, he is generally looking for max term and as much money as the market (team's) are willing to dole out.

How much do you think Alex Vlasic next contract is going to be when he is 29?

So you aren't going to call out his lack of awareness. His 1st move was to turn and skate backwards then he realizes Jarvis is sprinting up ice and by the time he turns back around to catch up its to late. There was a sequence in the 3rd he looked like Brodie because he got burned at the blue line and all he did was chase the play in his own end until Mrazek bailed him out.
- BetweenTheDots

He has to anticipate someone skating up the middle, right? Instead he skated over to help against the puck carrier. So he then had no chance when Jarvis streaked down the middle.

So the questions in my mind with him are how healthy is he overall, and does he want to be here? I don't call him a cancer. I sympathize with what he envisioned when he signed here, and what it ended up being in such short order, overpaid or not. He signed a marriage pact (what I call an untradable contract), and the marriage went south in a hurry.

So you aren't going to call out his lack of awareness. His 1st move was to turn and skate backwards then he realizes Jarvis is sprinting up ice and by the time he turns back around to catch up its to late. There was a sequence in the 3rd he looked like Brodie because he got burned at the blue line and all he did was chase the play in his own end until Mrazek bailed him out.
- BetweenTheDots

Sure, that one instance he could have done better, despite the brutal turnover that shouldn't have happened...

You can run the same exercise with every player on the team (especially last night). Vlasic was useless puck-watching on the game winner, and had numerous dumbass passes that led to icing, and/or not clearing the puck out of the zone. Are we going to say he sucks too because he made mistakes during a game where they got run out of the building? No, because he's new/young, has a reasonable contract and we don't already hate him.

So you aren't going to call out his lack of awareness. His 1st move was to turn and skate backwards then he realizes Jarvis is sprinting up ice and by the time he turns back around to catch up its to late. There was a sequence in the 3rd he looked like Brodie because he got burned at the blue line and all he did was chase the play in his own end until Mrazek bailed him out.
- BetweenTheDots

Please tell me how he was supposed to play that, and tell me what defenseman outside of maybe Cale Makar is going to catch Jarvis after being put in that position by the turnover.

So you aren't going to call out his lack of awareness. His 1st move was to turn and skate backwards then he realizes Jarvis is sprinting up ice and by the time he turns back around to catch up its to late. There was a sequence in the 3rd he looked like Brodie because he got burned at the blue line and all he did was chase the play in his own end until Mrazek bailed him out.
- BetweenTheDots

That’s what I saw as well, however other than that he has played like a top four defenseman the last three games. When Jones is focused and engaged, he adds value to the team, the issue is the lackluster effort at times. Would he be more consistent if the Hawks were better? Maybe, but they’re at least two years away from competing for a playoff spot. I could be wrong(again), because in my opinion he’s tradable and will bring something decent back if he waives his NMC.

He has to anticipate someone skating up the middle, right? Instead he skated over to help against the puck carrier. So he then had no chance when Jarvis streaked down the middle.

So the questions in my mind with him are how healthy is he overall, and does he want to be here? I don't call him a cancer. I sympathize with what he envisioned when he signed here, and what it ended up being in such short order, overpaid or not. He signed a marriage pact (what I call an untradable contract), and the marriage went south in a hurry.
- 333inthe3rd

Maybe Teuvo shouldn't of left the man skating up the middle to go to the puck carrier that Jones had turned to mark?

Or is Jones supposed to anticipate Tuevo making the wrong read too?

And that is how the CBA has set up the salary structure, for the first 3 years you get minimum wages (plus bonuses), the next 4 years since you restricted, you generally will get less than market (there are different rules if you reach 27, etc. etc. but the majority of UFA's are after 7 years of an NHL contract (let's see if offer sheets become more prevelant), and so when year 8 comes, and the player is in his prime, he is generally looking for max term and as much money as the market (team's) are willing to dole out.

How much do you think Alex Vlasic next contract is going to be when he is 29?
- LAHawk

As always, it depends. Does he top out at what he is now? Does he develop more of an offensive game and not degrade defensively? Ideally, it won't matter because KD will have younger kids ready to come in behind him.

He has to anticipate someone skating up the middle, right? Instead he skated over to help against the puck carrier. So he then had no chance when Jarvis streaked down the middle.

So the questions in my mind with him are how healthy is he overall, and does he want to be here? I don't call him a cancer. I sympathize with what he envisioned when he signed here, and what it ended up being in such short order, overpaid or not. He signed a marriage pact (what I call an untradable contract), and the marriage went south in a hurry.
- 333inthe3rd

So did my first marriage.

Maybe Teuvo shouldn't of left the man skating up the middle to go to the puck carrier that Jones had turned to mark?

Or is Jones supposed to anticipate Tuevo making the wrong read too?
- LAHawk

Long story short, that goal wasn't Jones fault. Could he have possibly played it perfectly and prevented it? Sure, but the awful turnover put him in a bad position where there wasn't much he could reasonably do, outside of intentionally hooking, holding or tripping Jarvis and likely giving up a penalty shot.

The focus here should the bad entry and the turnover, rather than expecting Jones to make a play most dmen wouldn't reasonable make on that play.

Long story short, that goal wasn't Jones fault. Could he have possibly played it perfectly and prevented it? Sure, but the awful turnover put him in a bad position where there wasn't much he could reasonably do, outside of intentionally hooking, holding or tripping Jarvis and likely giving up a penalty shot.

The focus here should the bad entry and the turnover, rather than expecting Jones to make a play most dmen wouldn't reasonable make on that play.
- breadbag

I agree but that doesn't support the agenda.

He has to anticipate someone skating up the middle, right? Instead he skated over to help against the puck carrier. So he then had no chance when Jarvis streaked down the middle.

So the questions in my mind with him are how healthy is he overall, and does he want to be here? I don't call him a cancer. I sympathize with what he envisioned when he signed here, and what it ended up being in such short order, overpaid or not. He signed a marriage pact (what I call an untradable contract), and the marriage went south in a hurry.
- 333inthe3rd

He immediately recognized it was a 2 on 1 situation and tried to do what he is coached to do, and get in position to take away the pass. There are always passing seams and Aho made a really excellent pass both in timing and placement to send Jarvis in with speed. He placed the pass pretty perfectly just ahead of the backchecking TT and just out of the reach of Jones who was quickly backpedaling.

Does it seem strange that the hiring of the vice president of hockey operations doesn't even get 2 sentences on the Blackhawks website, but he is listed as such on the front office page?

He immediately recognized it was a 2 on 1 situation and tried to do what he is coached to do, and get in position to take away the pass. There are always passing seams and Aho made a really excellent pass both in timing and placement to send Jarvis in with speed. He placed the pass pretty perfectly just ahead of the backchecking TT and just out of the reach of Jones who was quickly backpedaling.
- breadbag

Exactly, or lets pick apart the overtime goal and why was Vlasic late to Aho's one timer?

Exactly, or lets pick apart the overtime goal and why was Vlasic late to Aho's one timer?
- LAHawk

That one wasn't great. All three Hawks were caught watching and it would have been great if Vlasic could have at least gotten his stick or body in a better position to take that clean shot away. Also Kudos to Necas who made the great pass there too.

That one wasn't great. All three Hawks were caught watching and it would have been great if Vlasic could have at least gotten his stick or body in a better position to take that clean shot away. Also Kudos to Necas who made the great pass there too.
- breadbag

I was taught that if the perfect hockey game was played, it would end 0-0

From Banford's Article

Elliotte Friedman said about the situation from the Monday episode of the “32 Thoughts” Podcast and just leave it here for y’all to digest. Making a player disappear is one thing. Being able to replace him is another.


“I look at this whole thing with Seth Jones in Chicago right now. You know, Chicago’s really struggling, you know Jones had a bad game last week. All of a sudden you’re talking about do you want to move him, is he available, and it would be a really complicated deal. But, you know, Connor Murphy‘s hurt again. The thing about a guy like Seth Jones is… Chicago, they’re going to start turning it over to even more of their younger players I think, but you do need veterans. You do need some veterans there.

And, if you’re looking at [Connor] Bedard and how disappointed and despondent he is… you know, we’ve talked about how hard it is to get top players to come back to your team when you’re not doing well. Yeah, Jones has some flaws like every player does, but who’s gonna take his role if he’s gone? Are you getting anybody else out there who can at least shelter some of your young players and allow them to break into the NHL the way you need them to break in. I don’t know that you have that….

Now, if Jones get frustrated and wants to go somewhere where he can win, that’s a different story. But I could see the Blackhawks saying this after and saying, ‘Is there a trade for Jones that’s gonna make us better at a point where people aren’t exactly beating down the doors to come play for us.'”

Exactly, or lets pick apart the overtime goal and why was Vlasic late to Aho's one timer?
- LAHawk

I'm sure he's been treated to many viewings of that goal by now. If he's 30 and still doing that, I can't imagine the board reaction then.

Okay, we can forget about a trade now. Eklund just posted an article about the possibility of a trade.

This is from LBR at second city. This for the most part encapsulates my feelings about the rebuild.

https://www.secondcityhoc...y-have-to-feel-like-this/

From Banford's Article

Elliotte Friedman said about the situation from the Monday episode of the “32 Thoughts” Podcast and just leave it here for y’all to digest. Making a player disappear is one thing. Being able to replace him is another.


“I look at this whole thing with Seth Jones in Chicago right now. You know, Chicago’s really struggling, you know Jones had a bad game last week. All of a sudden you’re talking about do you want to move him, is he available, and it would be a really complicated deal. But, you know, Connor Murphy‘s hurt again. The thing about a guy like Seth Jones is… Chicago, they’re going to start turning it over to even more of their younger players I think, but you do need veterans. You do need some veterans there.

And, if you’re looking at
- LAHawk[Connor] Bedard and how disappointed and despondent he is… you know, we’ve talked about how hard it is to get top players to come back to your team when you’re not doing well. Yeah, Jones has some flaws like every player does, but who’s gonna take his role if he’s gone? Are you getting anybody else out there who can at least shelter some of your young players and allow them to break into the NHL the way you need them to break in. I don’t know that you have that….

Now, if Jones get frustrated and wants to go somewhere where he can win, that’s a different story. But I could see the Blackhawks saying this after and saying, ‘Is there a trade for Jones that’s gonna make us better at a point where people aren’t exactly beating down the doors to come play for us.'”

Feels like it often comes back to the fact that we just don't have a lot of high end Dmen in the organization (at least that are NHL ready). We don't have anyone to slide in and replace Jones if he was moved. We have young guys slotting in probably higher than would be ideal. We have some older vets trying to do more than they probably should.

In 2025, based on minutes our D is like this.

Vlasic - 24 TOI
Jones - 23.5 TOI
Crevier - 20 TOI
Martinez - 19.5 TOI
Kaiser - 18 TOI
Brodie - 15.5 TOI
Allan - 15 TOI

Would Crevier be a top 3 or 4 on any other NHL team? Probably not, he is probably not going to be more than a 6/7 guy on a team with proper depth.

The nearly 38 year old Martinez shouldn't be playing in the top 4 at the NHL level anymore.

Brodie is struggling and should probably only be 6/7 at best.

Kaiser, has things in his game to like, but still waiting for him to show that he is top 4 material. While he is a battler and the effort is there, sometimes he just bounces off attacking players who are just bigger/stronger. To me, he seems like 3rd pair unless he finds another level to his game.

Allan is doing well, but not looking ready for NHL top 4.

Murphy is like borderline a #4 guy right now, but he is unable to keep himself healthy.

We have some promising guys who are coming, but they aren't ready. We have pretty much 2 guys that show they belong in the Top 4 at the NHL level, and subtracting one of them makes the lack of depth even worse. We already have guys playing above where they should IMO. It's Jones + Vlasic and then a bunch of guys that should be 5,6,7,8 in the pecking order ideally.

We've given up almost 37 shots per game in 2025. That trend is going to continue and we will lean on the goalies so much unless we actually add probably 2 guys who are legit good top 4.

Personally, I hoped KK would step up, but he does need more time. I hoped Martinez and Brodie would have a little more in the tank to help the depth, but unfortunately they are both probably playing a little worse than KD hoped IMO.