You’re try to confuse the issue, Havlat is irrelevant in this discussion.

The major pieces were in place, Toews, Kane, Seabrook, Keith, Hjalmarsson, and secondary players Sharp, Bolland, Versteeg, Campbell, Ladd, Byfuglien and the third tier Burish, Fraser, Eager, Brouwer. They knew what they had in 2009 and signed Hossa to round the team out. The signing was low risk.

What primary, secondary and third tier players on currently on the Hawks roster? When will they arrive? Who are they? Are we sure the Hawks even have them? I’ll help you, on the roster right now are three players who are potential future roster players, one is a primary guy. And they have two or three players who may prove themselves as fixtures down the road. Taking on an older guy is a huge risk, especially one commanding an 8 figure salary for seven years. What if the draft picks don’t pan out? What if they don’t have another top six forward? What if Arty and KK prove to be second or third pairing defensemen? Signing Rantanen is a huge risk at this time.
- paulr

Havlat isn't irrelevant to the discussion. They were poopty and trying to build a team so they brought him in during his prime and then yay everyone worked out and they got a veteran Hossa to round things out.

They also brought in Sharp as a reclamation project and flipped Ruutu for Ladd.

Rantanen is not a huge risk. It is a slam dunk. Especially with all the lil guys in the system now. He's a big point producer, plays defense and has won a cup.

They have Bedard so regardless of what the other prospects do, they will attempt to build a team around him. They're not going to just be perpetually bad and keep throwing darts. And they're not going to trade Bedard in his last RFA year to start all over again.

Watching the Brantford Kitchener game, Vanacker can flat out fly. I didn’t realize he could skate that well. He’s also a nose over the puck guy getting involved in puck battles and winning more than his share.

Havlat isn't irrelevant to the discussion. They were poopty and trying to build a team so they brought him in during his prime and then yay everyone worked out and they got a veteran Hossa to round things out.

They also brought in Sharp as a reclamation project and flipped Ruutu for Ladd.

Rantanen is not a huge risk. It is a slam dunk. Especially with all the lil guys in the system now. He's a big point producer, plays defense and has won a cup.

They have Bedard so regardless of what the other prospects do, they will attempt to build a team around him. They're not going to just be perpetually bad and keep throwing darts. And they're not going to trade Bedard in his last RFA year to start all over again.
- fattybeef

It’s irrelevant anyway. If Colorado doesn’t re-sign him there’s no chance he’s signing with a club with only one top six player. Ya think he would sign if the team had the talent of the 2009 Blackhawks?

Pridham is another very good skater who doesn’t mind getting involved. He’s putting up decent numbers to begin his OHL career. 4-6-10 in seven games.

In a hard cap league like the NHL - the playoffs is the goal because a hot goalie or having one very dominant defender and a goal scorer - can take you far or ruin your day and it becomes health (which isn't necessarily dependent on depth) and luck that determines champions.

Chicago had to change a few times. So did the Penguins. The Lightning team that lost to the Blackhawks was different from the one that won their two cups.

Colorado didn't win their cup until after they retooled and moved on from Orielly and Duchene. Washington had to have a few turnovers before they won theirs. Florida wasn't able to get over the finish line until they completely retooled their team (moving a 100 point forward and top 4 defender def qualifies as a big change).

In the last 10 years there hasn't been a team that won that didn't undergo roster turnover between their first playoff run with that core and their actual cup win. It's just how the league works.
- fattybeef

Sure they did, but you are talking apples to my oranges.

I'm talking where the team was when KD took over as GM and what was the right path to rebuild at that time.

You are talking about teams that won the cup and and retooled to stay relevant, two completely different situations.

The Hawks won multiple cups with multiple rosters, but the core was the same, and that was why they won multiple cups, the core.

Colorado doesn't really count in any of this conversation, their rebuild was like 10 years.

The initial debate in this topic i stated that a tear down and rebuild was never going to take 3 years, it was always going to take a min of 5.

No one anyone has mentioned yet in a response came close to a tear down and rebuild competing for cups in 3 years, and even 5 was pushing it.

Yeah definitely not saying that. I don't think they should get guys to get guys.

I think they should think about reclamation projects similar to Jiricek. High end talent maybe just needs to hear a different voice in his ear. All it cost was picks and a third round pick prospect who may or may not be an ok pro.

If the asking price was similar for Zegras - meaning they wanted like Dach + a late first + a second and a fifth or whatever it was - I don't see why it's controversial to do a deal like that? I think the ducks will make a coaching change before they make a roster change but that's the type of deal I'd be interested in.

Or like Kurashev and a third for Morgan Frost. If he sucks what have they really lost?

Im not saying they need to trade for guys because they need to trade for guys but if there is someone who may need a change of scenery that should be able to be a very productive player and all it costs is a middling prospect \ roster player and some picks (which they have a surplus of) there is a better chance of that working out then drafting someone 53rd.

However if there was a fire sale in Ottawa and literally everyone was available I think you pay the price for Brady and only Bedard and Levshunov are off limits.
- fattybeef

You know Fatty this, or a deal like it, is a reasonable possibility IMO. A trade that KD has probably worked on sisnce last offseason...... Frost is 25, decent size C, 27th overall who is basically a .5 per game 2 way NHLer. Not sure he'd be with the Hawks in 3-4 yrs but he'd make the lineup better today cuz he's better than Kurashev and who knows if he turns into a 2 way 20 goal 50 pt bottom 6er. And PHI would move on from him adding a tad lesser player in Kurashev, maybe not though in their eyes, and a handy 3rd rd pick/asset for Briere.

I crawled down the natural Stat Trick rabbit hole the other day and landed on Zegras, who you mention often. Drafted in 2019 outa The Program 9th overall he put up a pt per game as a true freshman at BU, 21 in 17 in the AHL then 61 pts as a rookie followed by 65 pts as a 21-22 yr old.

But his fancies were damned good, not the nightmare I thought he'd be by the eye test. A plus Corsi and HDCF his first 2 yrs scoring 61 and 65 pts then injury riddled bad yr last yr and 10 in 23 this yr.

This guy is not the off the puck liability I thought my eye thought he was and there is no doubting the kid's skill who came outa The Program with Hughes, Boldy, York, Caufield, Beniers, Beecher, Thrun and Turcotte. (Paul, I hope you get to see some kinda equivalent live sometime in that CHL-NTDP yearly thingy. Incredible and the speed had you shaking your head until the final whistle ).

Look him up at natural Stat Trick, Fatty. He'd cost a bunch and that would be alright if KD and Crew think he's a guy that can be a part of a Cup threatening squad over 5-6 yrs at the cap hit he'd get. ....... Guys like Lardis, Spellacy, Kaiser, Boisvert, 1st rd picks, Allan in some combination would be needed is my guess.

Sure they did, but you are talking apples to my oranges.

I'm talking where the team was when KD took over as GM and what was the right path to rebuild at that time.

You are talking about teams that won the cup and and retooled to stay relevant, two completely different situations.

The Hawks won multiple cups with multiple rosters, but the core was the same, and that was why they won multiple cups, the core.

Colorado doesn't really count in any of this conversation, their rebuild was like 10 years.

The initial debate in this topic i stated that a tear down and rebuild was never going to take 3 years, it was always going to take a min of 5.

No one anyone has mentioned yet in a response came close to a tear down and rebuild competing for cups in 3 years, and even 5 was pushing it.
- vabeachbear

New York Rangers. Feb 2018 they tell their fans they are rebuilding. '18-19, '19-20, '20-21 they are out of the playoffs. '21-22 110 pts.

Watching the Brantford Kitchener game, Vanacker can flat out fly. I didn’t realize he could skate that well. He’s also a nose over the puck guy getting involved in puck battles and winning more than his share.
- paulr

Paul, after seeing Lardis awhile he really reminds me of Geuntzal, who by the way also went in rd 3 and is listed about the same as Lardis at 5ft 11in 180lbs. Same style/approach of a poised slasher who can flat out shoot the thing. I think Lardis is faster though.

Kid has a real chance, real chance........

Forgot about the Kitchner at Brantford game was on. Two good clubs, especially Kitchner.

Paul, after seeing Lardis awhile he really reminds me of Geuntzal, who by the way also went in rd 3 and is listed about the same as Lardis at 5ft 11in 180lbs. Same style/approach of a poised slasher who can flat out shoot the thing. I think Lardis is faster though.

Kid has a real chance, real chance........

Forgot about the Kitchner at Brantford game was on. Two good clubs, especially Kitchner.
- Mr Ricochet

Not sure about the comparable. Lardis’ shot is a notch below Bedard’s but his skating is off the charts, fast and shifty. What I really like is how he used to just fly up the ice and wind up alone because his teammates couldn’t keep up. Now he skates various routes, almost like a wide receiver or skating one speed then shifting up or down a gear or two to keep in the play or blow past a defender. That tells me he’s well coached or he’s a cerebral guy. I was very disappointed he didn’t make Canada’s junior team, I thought he was a lock. But it’s evident whoever chose it wants a fast skilled heavy team.

Vanacker is very fast too with good edges and great balance. He’s going to get his nose dirty on every shift. He’s fearless and he’s skilled.

And watching Pridham play for the third time tonight against Brantford I’m liking this kids game. Again good wheels, very good shot, he gets involved in the tough areas and he’s already on the top powerplay unit, not bad considering he’s only in his eighth game.

Hossa wouldn't have signed with the Hawks unless they had their WCF team in place from the previous year.

Havlat was up and coming/didn't want term in Ottawa and we traded Bell for him in a multi-team deal. The Havlat trade is the type we need to make now.
- Popsghostly

This!

Paul, after seeing Lardis awhile he really reminds me of Geuntzal, who by the way also went in rd 3 and is listed about the same as Lardis at 5ft 11in 180lbs. Same style/approach of a poised slasher who can flat out shoot the thing. I think Lardis is faster though.

Kid has a real chance, real chance........

Forgot about the Kitchner at Brantford game was on. Two good clubs, especially Kitchner.
- Mr Ricochet

And when Lardis makes it to the big show, and is not potting 60 goals a season, he will be the next whipping boy on this site, if it is still around....

And when Lardis makes it to the big show, and is not potting 60 goals a season, he will be the next whipping boy on this site, if it is still around....
- dahawks8819

Lardis will have to learn to to survive in the land of hockey giants Which might take a bit of time.

Unbeknownst to us perhaps whenever that Russian we drafted has his contract ending, KD suddenly signs him? Had a great first season in Russia top league

Lardis will have to learn to to survive in the land of hockey giants Which might take a bit of time.

Unbeknownst to us perhaps whenever that Russian we drafted has his contract ending, KD suddenly signs him? Had a great first season in Russia top league
- jhawk59

Maybe KD will ask Arty to put in a good word but this scenario has to be once Arty has played partial or full NHL season

Well now I see that Broberg back for 13 gp
Curious to see how Broberg and Holloway perform for St Louis. Will they give the Oilers Bownan a case of the blues?

Maybe KD will ask Arty to put in a good word but this scenario has to be once Arty has played partial or full NHL season
- jhawk59

Are you replying to your own comments again?! Thought we talked about this...it's weird...stop it.
Also fyi, Kantserov is from Russia and Arty is from Belarus. They have zero connection.

Are you replying to your own comments again?! Thought we talked about this...it's weird...stop it.
Also fyi, Kantserov is from Russia and Arty is from Belarus. They have zero connection.
- Assman22

I can post again by saying "additional thoughts." That is not weird. I would be thrilled if both Kantserov and Arty play on the Blackhawks. They could become friends, too, since both have similar thoughts and concerns coming from their respective neighboring homeland. But I will focus on the hockey end of it if both, indeed, make the NHL grade in Chicago

Well now I see that Broberg back for 13 gp
Curious to see how Broberg and Holloway perform for St Louis. Will they give the Oilers Bownan a case of the blues?
- jhawk59

Holloway has 8 goals and 15 points, all for a 3rd round pick. He brings size and speed, would have been perfect for the Hawks. Broberg has played well, although he just came back from an injury.

For those that like prospect updates:

https://www.bleachernatio...rankings-december-update/

Nothing earth-shattering as far as news goes, but it's a decent rundown (that tends to accentuate positives and downplay negatives).

New York Rangers. Feb 2018 they tell their fans they are rebuilding. '18-19, '19-20, '20-21 they are out of the playoffs. '21-22 110 pts.
- Chunk

Sh it rebuilding by winning the lotto twice? With a pretty good young roster already

Still haven't won anything, Fox forces his way to NY as well, the same player who cost the Rangers the series vs the Devils cause of a bone headed play in his own end.

Sh it rebuilding by winning the lotto twice? With a pretty good young roster already
- BetweenTheDots

That "pretty good young roster" was bottom of their division for three years. They sold of a ton of their talent for draft picks/prospects, chose Kakko and Lafreniere, signed Panarin, traded for Fox and others and they turned it around quick.

The point is that you don't HAVE to be poop for ages while the prospects develop. Especially with the volume of prospects they already have, the picks they have in their pocket, and the cap space they have/had/will have, put some good GD players around the gem they were gifted with THEY won the lottery (technically twice).

It’s irrelevant anyway. If Colorado doesn’t re-sign him there’s no chance he’s signing with a club with only one top six player. Ya think he would sign if the team had the talent of the 2009 Blackhawks?

- paulr

I nearly positive he'll stay in Colorado. They're already paying him 9.5. I think he'll take 12.5x8 and be happy to finish up in Denver. That's only a 3 million dollar increase so they should be able to accommodate without much issue.

Columbus probably has the best situation now from a young player/maturity/potential perspective. Marner would be an interesting fit there especially since he's a similar player to Gaudreau and they already have a decent amount of size.

New York Rangers. Feb 2018 they tell their fans they are rebuilding. '18-19, '19-20, '20-21 they are out of the playoffs. '21-22 110 pts.
- Chunk

And now up against the cap, over paid older players, and only got as far a conf finals.

You think they're set up for multiple cups now???

I don't gauge success by a playoff win or two. I'll say it again Cups is all that counts.

I nearly positive he'll stay in Colorado. They're already paying him 9.5. I think he'll take 12.5x8 and be happy to finish up in Denver. That's only a 3 million dollar increase so they should be able to accommodate without much issue.

Columbus probably has the best situation now from a young player/maturity/potential perspective. Marner would be an interesting fit there especially since he's a similar player to Gaudreau and they already have a decent amount of size.
- fattybeef

If Colorado need to move a player take on a bad contract and Cal Ritchie. Ritchie becomes a potential second line center

That "pretty good young roster" was bottom of their division for three years. They sold of a ton of their talent for draft picks/prospects, chose Kakko and Lafreniere, signed Panarin, traded for Fox and others and they turned it around quick.

The point is that you don't HAVE to be poop for ages while the prospects develop. Especially with the volume of prospects they already have, the picks they have in their pocket, and the cap space they have/had/will have, put some good GD players around the gem they were gifted with THEY won the lottery (technically twice).
- Chunk

So what free agent out there is available that's as good and same age as Panarin? Didn't they still keep Kreider, Mika and Zuccarelo, then switched out Zuc for Panarin, so they at least kept 1 top 6 line, we kept no one.

Don't look now Drury is beginning to panic 4 of his top 6 or top 4 players are in their 30's so i guess he's going to have to start juggling like Carolina.

Pretty sure VA was talking about the rest of the roster, not Bedard.
- Chunk

I was