Think about the key players on the Lindros teams. Almost all of them were acquired via trade. Lindros, LeClair, Desjardins, Brind Amour. That is what has changed in the last 25 years. You can't trade and sign your way to a title. Money was the only advantage they had back then.

They have never been able to build a team via the draft. Or at least develop key pieces.
- mickel25

Curious, how many key pieces must an organization draft and develop to then build the rest of the roster thru the other avenues- trades and free agency? For the Flyers, how many key pieces do they currently have in the organization.

Think about the key players on the Lindros teams. Almost all of them were acquired via trade. Lindros, LeClair, Desjardins, Brind Amour. That is what has changed in the last 25 years. You can't trade and sign your way to a title. Money was the only advantage they had back then.

They have never been able to build a team via the draft. Or at least develop key pieces.
- mickel25

Exactly. Clarke and Homer were a good time. Tons of fun, but they were never really innovative and never really interested in methodical intelligent team building. They had a great owner who was willing to spend. Along came the cap and the Flyers couldn't adapt. I think Snyder realized, near the end, that they needed to change the way they operate, but by that time he was too sick. It's a shame the team ownership went to Comcast rather than another individual.

Chuck was fired because he was incompetent. It also wouldn’t surprise me if Torts had some kind of hand in it as well.

This management team is in zero danger of being let go. Their attendance I believe has increased, slightly, compared to last year. Unless they all of a sudden have a few thousand fan drop off. No heat
- login

Never said they were going to be let go just said the heat will finally be on them. They have skated by for nearly two seasons with the season ticket holders largely in their corner. That has started to change over this season where fan base is starting to get restless. They have to have something new to sell next year. Sitting out the deadline is just going to put more pressure on them in the offseason.

It will be funny of they do accept a 2nd after hearing the GM talk him up the last few years about how valuable he is and need to be blown away by an offer. They rarely if ever sell high.

They may get a 1st if they include a pick or prospect going the other way as well.
- login

or take back a bad contract ala walker and a 5th for ryjo and a 1st

They also removed talent and lost a number 1 goalie.

Tell me besides michkov, what have they added to make this team better
- SlNlSTER

what talent has been removed?

Curious, how many key pieces must an organization draft and develop to then build the rest of the roster thru the other avenues- trades and free agency? For the Flyers, how many key pieces do they currently have in the organization.
- Trox88

In my OPINION, the last 20 or so years post cap has proven out that you need to at least have drafted your 1C and 1D very high in the draft. Or at the very least drafted them. This isn't just because of the talent, it is also because of the time you get to keep them for reasonable cap hits before they make the big bucks. It keep your window open longer and allows more chances to win with those guys.

It just seems to me that ALL (except maybe St. Louis) have drafted and developed their star players and filled in the support via trade and free agency. And kept the cap under control during that window to add a big game fish as the final piece.

Im worried the Flyers are doing it the opposite. Just simply by where they usually draft, they are drafting the supporting cast and looking to sign the stars. While that can certainly work, it also, in my opinion, shortens the window they can contend and also stay out of cap trouble. They miss out on those lower cap hit years.

Tampa, Chicago, Pittsburgh, LA all won multiple cups this way.

I don't know, it's just my opinion.

I'm tired of reading about how trading Risto and Laughton will create "holes" in the lineup. Who cares? Neither of these guys will be around when this team is a contender so what is the point? Risto is not part of the future, keeping him for present success is stupid and short sighted. The same goes for Laughton. Who cares if this current room will be damaged? Half these guys won't even be here when (or if) this team is ever a legitimate contender. The Flyers are acting like they are a few players from being a cup contender and the fans are eating it up. One or two more years and it's deep run time. They are delusional.
- MBFlyerfan

"Whose trading Risto"

2024 hands down jack adams award winning coach john tortorella

Exactly. Clarke and Homer were a good time. Tons of fun, but they were never really innovative and never really interested in methodical intelligent team building. They had a great owner who was willing to spend. Along came the cap and the Flyers couldn't adapt. I think Snyder realized, near the end, that they needed to change the way they operate, but by that time he was too sick. It's a shame the team ownership went to Comcast rather than another individual.
- Dkos

The reason why the Flyers changed was the result of a hard cap installed by the league. The league is about to change again because the end of the flat cap is about to end. Is there a belief that all the teams will be able to spend to the cap ceiling? I don't believe so. Large market teams should gain more of an advantage.

Never said they were going to be let go just said the heat will finally be on them. They have skated by for nearly two seasons with the season ticket holders largely in their corner. That has started to change over this season where fan base is starting to get restless. They have to have something new to sell next year. Sitting out the deadline is just going to put more pressure on them in the offseason.
- psuhockey

Still do not think they are or will be feeling any heat anytime soon. Keep in mind they still have the fire/don't resign the coach card to play which always buys more time.

In my OPINION, the last 20 or so years post cap has proven out that you need to at least have drafted your 1C and 1D very high in the draft. Or at the very least drafted them. This isn't just because of the talent, it is also because of the time you get to keep them for reasonable cap hits before they make the big bucks. It keep your window open longer and allows more chances to win with those guys.

It just seems to me that ALL (except maybe St. Louis) have drafted and developed their star players and filled in the support via trade and free agency. And kept the cap under control during that window to add a big game fish as the final piece.

Im worried the Flyers are doing it the opposite. Just simply by where they usually draft, they are drafting the supporting cast and looking to sign the stars. While that can certainly work, it also, in my opinion, shortens the window they can contend and also stay out of cap trouble. They miss out on those lower cap hit years.

Tampa, Chicago, Pittsburgh, LA all won multiple cups this way.

I don't know, it's just my opinion.
- MBFlyerfan

They wont be reaping that benefit with MM.

In my OPINION, the last 20 or so years post cap has proven out that you need to at least have drafted your 1C and 1D very high in the draft. Or at the very least drafted them. This isn't just because of the talent, it is also because of the time you get to keep them for reasonable cap hits before they make the big bucks. It keep your window open longer and allows more chances to win with those guys.

It just seems to me that ALL (except maybe St. Louis) have drafted and developed their star players and filled in the support via trade and free agency. And kept the cap under control during that window to add a big game fish as the final piece.

Im worried the Flyers are doing it the opposite. Just simply by where they usually draft, they are drafting the supporting cast and looking to sign the stars. While that can certainly work, it also, in my opinion, shortens the window they can contend and also stay out of cap trouble. They miss out on those lower cap hit years.

Tampa, Chicago, Pittsburgh, LA all won multiple cups this way.

I don't know, it's just my opinion.
- MBFlyerfan

I share most of your concerns-good insight. I just believe with the cap significantly rising the opportunity to do trades is about to greatly increase. Now will Briere be able to get better value then he ships out, big question. His prospect pool is not good enough by itself to build a Cup contending team.

In my OPINION, the last 20 or so years post cap has proven out that you need to at least have drafted your 1C and 1D very high in the draft. Or at the very least drafted them. This isn't just because of the talent, it is also because of the time you get to keep them for reasonable cap hits before they make the big bucks. It keep your window open longer and allows more chances to win with those guys.

It just seems to me that ALL (except maybe St. Louis) have drafted and developed their star players and filled in the support via trade and free agency. And kept the cap under control during that window to add a big game fish as the final piece.

Im worried the Flyers are doing it the opposite. Just simply by where they usually draft, they are drafting the supporting cast and looking to sign the stars. While that can certainly work, it also, in my opinion, shortens the window they can contend and also stay out of cap trouble. They miss out on those lower cap hit years.

Tampa, Chicago, Pittsburgh, LA all won multiple cups this way.

I don't know, it's just my opinion.
- MBFlyerfan

It will be interesting going forward what the model for success will be. I don’t think teams are going to be able to afford the amount of high talent Chicago put together. Chicago couldn’t even afford it under the new rules since Keith signed a 14 year contract until 41 years old . Tampa’s 2nd cup was largely through cap circumvention which may not be available after the new CBA. Teams might obit be able to hang onto a couple of superstars going forward without killing their depth.

They wont be reaping that benefit with MM.
- login

No, he will probably get a huge deal in year 4, But they will still have him for many years and all of his 20's. I would rather have to sign him to an 8 year deal at 23 for a huge cap hit over signing a 28, 29, 30 year old player (FA or otherwise) for a 7-8 year deal at the same cap hit. It goes back to using the cap wisely. Signing young stars to long lucrative contracts is always better than signing old stars to long lucrative contracts. More bang for your cap buck so to speak.

It will be interesting going forward what the model for success will be. I don’t think teams are going to be able to afford the amount of high talent Chicago put together. Chicago couldn’t even afford it under the new rules since Keith signed a 14 year contract until 41 years old . Tampa’s 2nd cup was largely through cap circumvention which may not be available after the new CBA. Teams might obit be able to hang onto a couple of superstars going forward without killing their depth.
- psuhockey

But the point is they won a cup, a second cup, and played in a 3rd cup. The Flyers haven't sniffed a cup in years.

It will be interesting going forward what the model for success will be. I don’t think teams are going to be able to afford the amount of high talent Chicago put together. Chicago couldn’t even afford it under the new rules since Keith signed a 14 year contract until 41 years old . Tampa’s 2nd cup was largely through cap circumvention which may not be available after the new CBA. Teams might obit be able to hang onto a couple of superstars going forward without killing their depth.
- psuhockey

What cap circumvention was that?

No, he will probably get a huge deal in year 4, But they will still have him for many years and all of his 20's. I would rather have to sign him to an 8 year deal at 23 for a huge cap hit over signing a 28, 29, 30 year old player (FA or otherwise) for a 7-8 year deal at the same cap hit. It goes back to using the cap wisely. Signing young stars to long lucrative contracts is always better than signing old stars to long lucrative contracts. More bang for your cap buck so to speak.
- MBFlyerfan

Just blows the flyers cant take advantage with MM on his ELC. He won't even get a bridge deal unless he wants one.

Who will be a stud type player on an ELC that flyers will have on the roster while trying to on a cup? The 2029 pick?

Just blows the flyers cant take advantage with MM on his ELC. He won't even get a bridge deal unless he wants one.

Who will be a stud type player on an ELC that flyers will have on the roster while trying to on a cup? The 2029 pick?
- login

Jett "The Room Jr™" Luchenko

https://x.com/ADiMarco25/...5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

I do ultimately believe there will be major changes to the roster outside of adding Luchanko and letting Kuzmenko walk. Those price increases are going to be tough to sell bringing back basically the same team that missed the playoffs again. The hints from Jones and Shaw about ultimately wanting a bigger blueline seems like an insight into the immediate future. Maybe I'm reading the situation wrong.

I do ultimately believe there will be major changes to the roster outside of adding Luchanko and letting Kuzmenko walk. Those price increases are going to be tough to sell bringing back basically the same team that missed the playoffs again. The hints from Jones and Shaw about ultimately wanting a bigger blueline seems like an insight into the immediate future. Maybe I'm reading the situation wrong.
- Trox88

I am surprised McDonald has not been called up

What cap circumvention was that?
- login

Kucherov waiting to get surgery and not joining the team until the playoffs letting them go way over the cap in the postseason. I would imagine that loophole will be closed or a hard limit of how much a team can be over the cap in the playoffs will be put in place.

https://x.com/ADiMarco25/status/1895467499237622149?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1895467499237622149%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=
- login

Priming the fan base for nothing to happen. A San filipo management shilling article will be right around the corner.

I do ultimately believe there will be major changes to the roster outside of adding Luchanko and letting Kuzmenko walk. Those price increases are going to be tough to sell bringing back basically the same team that missed the playoffs again. The hints from Jones and Shaw about ultimately wanting a bigger blueline seems like an insight into the immediate future. Maybe I'm reading the situation wrong.
- Trox88

If I actually thought Briere had some guts, the LA kings look like they are primed to do something stupid to get out of the first round of the playoffs. If he was willing to move Tippett I bet the Flyers could get something really good from the kings like Clarke who is supposedly barely getting minutes now.

The coverage on the winning goal was not good. Between MM and Konecny it was not good.

As long as they keep giving MM chances in offensive situations I am fine with 14 minutes. Powerplay, offensive zone starts and OT shifts. Dude can put up points and is not a good defensive player right now.
- mickel25

Many star Russian wingers in particular have had poor 2 way skills at the start of their career and beyond. Panarin, Kucherov, Ovechkin come to mind. Iirc, Panarin was traded by the Hawks partly because Saad was a better defensive player with a history of success in CHI. Kucherov utterly dogged it for many year and even during their cup years, was at most average. Ovechkin was coached (coaxed) by Trots during that 1 cup year and backchecked like a demon during the playoffs, but was half-hearted otherwise for the decade before that.

All of those guys turned out kinda ok in spite of their poor 2 way play when they started, right?

Regarding MM, there are multiple pressures at work. The trauma of his family, the controversy surrounding his arrival, the newness of a country, his youth. My personal take on this would be to cut him slack, let him get very confident about his offensive abilities, maximize them, and then make his defensive play ...acceptable. Rather than produce another well rounded player. For no purpose at all as the team is not going anywhere anyway.

To thrust yet another obstacle in his way risks throwing out the baby with the bath water.

Hockey is a gate driven business. The fans in hockey can absolutely get people fired. Fletcher got fired because of the disastrous town hall after the TDL not for being a terrible GM. He was also liked by management. There’s a reason Jones was hired just for fan relations.
- psuhockey

I would love to know what fraction of those gate revenues come from STH sales, luxury suites, etc. Is it like the airline industry where almost all profits come from business/first class? Or more equitable? Wish this data were available.