well its hard to tell how franchises will be doing in a few years
but if it was today

one of flordia or tampa would go
atlanta
Phoenix
islanders (heard they are hard up)
nashville
then ummmmmMMmm... hell if detroit doesnt turn around them. I live 45 mins away and their economy effect is felt down where i live. Scary times for the state of Michigan.

North East
Montreal
Ottawa
Toronto
Buffalo
Boston
New York Rangers

North West
St-Louis
Edmonton
Colorado
Detroit
Minnesota
Chicago

Atlantic
Tampa Bay
Philadelphia
New Jersey
Washington
Pittsburgh
Carolina

Pacific
San Jose
Anaheim
Calgary
Los Angelas
Dallas
Vancouver

Based on different facts: Atlanta, Pheonix, NY Isles, Florida, Nashville and Columbus would exit the league.

Atlanta - Next to no fan base... Extremely hard to sell hockey tickets even more than south Florida!
Pheonix - Not an hockey market!
NY Isles - Will never be able to match the passionate fans of the Rangers therefore no place for a 2nd market.
Florida - While Tampa has a good fan base, it's been tough on the Panthers these last few years (probably from lack of success)
Nashville - This one is a gamble... I think it has potential due to location.
Columbus - I had a hard time taking them out because Ohio could be a very strong place for hockey but they havn't made money since they where an expension franchise.

Yes there is a place for hockey in non-traditional markets... Dallas, Anaheim, LA, San Jose are all proof of that!

The game will grow it these market, let it!
- nhlscout_2000

What kind of crackhead divisions are those? You ripped the Rangers from EVERY TRADITIONAL RIVALRY

Ok I get the first 5 but Dallas doesn't make any sense... They are a model franchise that has an incredible fan base!
- nhlscout_2000

I just dont like em, isnt that enough?

1) Take out one NY area team: NJD or NYI
2) Take out one florida team
3) Coyotes
4) Atlanta
5) LA area team (anaheim or kings)
6) nashville

You Canadians are ingrates, Bettman helped save Vancouver and Edmonton when your dollar was weak but please continue to be mis-informed.
- FirstClass

Ingrates really??
Think about it:
Where would the league be without toronto and montreal and the constant sellouts. And massive amount of merchandise sold.


And on the sabre front I'm willing to send the sens to vegas to keep the sabres in buffalo.

What kind of crackhead divisions are those? You ripped the Rangers from EVERY TRADITIONAL RIVALRY
- LetsGoRangers!

Rivalrys are the key. I want the old Norris intact damnit!

1) Take out one NY area team: NJD or NYI
2) Take out one florida team
3) Coyotes
4) Atlanta
5) LA area team (anaheim or kings)
6) nashville
- donkeykong79

Maybe we should lose the original six.

Maybe we should lose the original six.
- jimmc7722

its all hypothetical

im curious to know your 6 teams you would fold, I'm too lazy to search through all the pages

You sure have. Buffalo has most of their games sold out and had a 95% renewal rate on season tickets, plus added and additional 1,500 and still have thousands on the waiting list. The Winter Classic was named sport event of the year for 2008 by Business Week. The 2011 IIHF World Junior Hockey Championship will be held in Buffalo and paid for by the Sabres.
- sippyd

I agree that the financial problems in Buffalo have been overstated, but this American travel initiative with passports will hurt Buffalo a bit. Ironically, the same Senators (U.S. Senators, not hockey) that voted in this sorry excuse for a law are the ones saying Hamilton getting a team will hurt Buffalo.

If anything something like this is a good opportunity for smaller fanbase teams to correct conceptions of people who are not from that area. I think people have been pretty respectful with the comments, and at the same time I think people would be open to hearing other perspectives, as would I, which is one of the reasons I posed the question.
- shawn_gates

The way I feel is, my words on a message board aren't going to convince anyone. The only thing the Hurricanes needs to shut up the naysayers is time. Every year they are going to show up and and shut up one more person who says hockey can't work in the south, because it can. And someone will write a blog on this topic EVERY YEAR without fail, and everyone will come on and say the same few teams no matter what.

Maybe I need to stop reading them and just be content in the fact that everyone who hates on Carolina is misinformed and will be proven wrong.

I agree that the financial problems in Buffalo have been overstated, but this American travel initiative with passports will hurt Buffalo a bit. Ironically, the same Senators (U.S. Senators, not hockey) that voted in this sorry excuse for a law are the ones saying Hamilton getting a team will hurt Buffalo.
- londondave

So you get a passport. Big deal. My renewal cost me $60 and it's good for 10 years.

6 teams that wont survive?

Atlanta - Seriously, their only draw is Kovalchuk and he can't do it alone. Unless Kane, Bogosian and their other top picks start panning out, they're finished. By 2015, Kovalchuk is probably playing in some other city anyway.

Islanders - It sucks. It sucks real, real hard. Ranger fans will miss them painfully, believe it or not. That franchise has exactly 2 years to turn around before they're going to be moved or generate the revenue for the Lighthouse project.

Florida - The Panthers just can't do it. They keep going and going and somehow can't build a winner. Furthermore, they're a distant 4th in their own city to teams like the Marlins and Dolphins.

Buffalo - They are totally unwilling to spend on their guys. They let their best players go and do nothing to replace them. Fans will get tired. On the upside, their movement will likely provide justification for a team in another southern Ontario metro area.

Edmonton - Yes, this is a Canadian Hockey Hotbed. Unfortunately, players don't want to go there, it's been a while since they've had a consistent winner (key word consistent), the place is a frozen wasteland, and the players just don't seem to want to be there. That will take it's toll.

Phoenix - Duh.

its all hypothetical

im curious to know your 6 teams you would fold, I'm too lazy to search through all the pages
- donkeykong79

It really doesn't matter.... we could argue all night.

well its hard to tell how franchises will be doing in a few years
but if it was today

one of flordia or tampa would go
atlanta
Phoenix
islanders (heard they are hard up)
nashville
then ummmmmMMmm... hell if detroit doesnt turn around them. I live 45 mins away and their economy effect is felt down where i live. Scary times for the state of Michigan.
- nightmare3020

thank you. i mentioned that earlier and a couple people got pissed, but it is a legitimate concern. i mean detroit is hurting more than any other major city, and they have 4 pro franchises to support. plus they have trouble selling out early round playoff games as it is, so when the teams performance inevitably drops off, something is going to have to give. not that they would be completely disbanded, but its worth a mention.

So you get a passport. Big deal. My renewal cost me $60 and it's good for 10 years.
- sippyd

Buffalo will be fine... they don't really bug you at the border.

So you get a passport. Big deal. My renewal cost me $60 and it's good for 10 years.
- sippyd

Yes, but our passports are only good for five years, and only 25% of the country has one at the moment.

The way I feel is, my words on a message board aren't going to convince anyone. The only thing the Hurricanes needs to shut up the naysayers is time. Every year they are going to show up and and shut up one more person who says hockey can't work in the south, because it can. And someone will write a blog on this topic EVERY YEAR without fail, and everyone will come on and say the same few teams no matter what.

Maybe I need to stop reading them and just be content in the fact that everyone who hates on Carolina is misinformed and will be proven wrong.
- CanesRallyCry

Have to admit, Carolina has some of the best fans, and loudest too. How about the Devils who almost never sell out and announce phony attendance numbers?

Have to admit, Carolina has some of the best fans, and loudest too. How about the Devils who almost never sell out and announce phony attendance numbers?
- sippyd

Agreed. Every Hurricanes game I saw on TV looked like it had a near-full house, and a loud one. Plus, I almost shed a tear watching the Stanley Cup parties the year Carolina won the cup, it definately turned around my stereotypical view of Carolina as a hockey market.

Have to admit, Carolina has some of the best fans, and loudest too. How about the Devils who almost never sell out and announce phony attendance numbers?
- sippyd

Dude I've been to 5 "sellouts" in LA and there were at least 3,000 seats open. They trump up the numbers by selling tickets to corporations and poop. And remember that BS where Phoenix boosted their real numbers to get in on profit sharing? Yeah I wonder who did that? cough*Bettman*cough

What kind of crackhead divisions are those? You ripped the Rangers from EVERY TRADITIONAL RIVALRY
- LetsGoRangers!

Lol sorry.. it's not such about the division than it is about the teams remaining... I know it wouldn't make sense to take the Rags out of that division... Just trying to find a way to make it work!

-I can't understand where all these Buffalo hatters are coming from!!! This team has a strong fan base and is sell out every game! The NHL needs Buffalo in the fold!
-To Dallas and Carolina hatters, you guys are wrong!! Carolina is and has the potential to be a great hockey city. I've been in Carolina in the playoffs and this city really becomes something special... They just need to translate that into the regurlar season. People judge the Stars by their location but Dallas has become a very good hockey market over the years. This is a winning and model franchise!!! Let's get something straight, Tom Hicks is in financial trouble not the Dallas Stars. He is in a mess because of other loans not because of the Stars!

Islanders
Florida
Atlanta
Phoenix
Nashville
Columbus

Look at that :

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance?year=2009

6 teams that wont survive?

Atlanta - Seriously, their only draw is Kovalchuk and he can't do it alone. Unless Kane, Bogosian and their other top picks start panning out, they're finished. By 2015, Kovalchuk is probably playing in some other city anyway.

Islanders - It sucks. It sucks real, real hard. Ranger fans will miss them painfully, believe it or not. That franchise has exactly 2 years to turn around before they're going to be moved or generate the revenue for the Lighthouse project.

Florida - The Panthers just can't do it. They keep going and going and somehow can't build a winner. Furthermore, they're a distant 4th in their own city to teams like the Marlins and Dolphins.

Buffalo - They are totally unwilling to spend on their guys. They let their best players go and do nothing to replace them. Fans will get tired. On the upside, their movement will likely provide justification for a team in another southern Ontario metro area.

Edmonton - Yes, this is a Canadian Hockey Hotbed. Unfortunately, players don't want to go there, it's been a while since they've had a consistent winner (key word consistent), the place is a frozen wasteland, and the players just don't seem to want to be there. That will take it's toll.

Phoenix - Duh.
- LetsGoRangers!

You make like Buffalo is at the bottom of the league in spending. They are middle of the pack so that statement is wrong. Maybe they did the right thing not overpaying Drury, Briere & Campbell, none of which are worth their contracts and kept the right one, Vanek.

Yes, but our passports are only good for five years, and only 25% of the country has one at the moment.
- londondave

Most people in the border towns have them.

Always going back and forth to NY.

But did you honestly think that people were going to come on here and not list half the southeast division + Phoenix? It doesn't seem like this is progressing the debate past where it's already been as much as spinning the wheels. Did anybody here really "think outside the box?"
- CanesRallyCry

With all due respect I would argue that people have. Here's a sampling;

“…unless the Canadian dollar gets back to the > .65 USD level. If that is the case (which is unlikely), Edmonton and Ottawa may be in trouble.” (RECOGNITION THAT "TRADITIONAL" CANADIAN MARKETS ARE AT RISK)

“the Dallas Stars are a MODEL franchise about how to go about hockey in a non-traditional market.” (BRINGING ATTENTION TO THE FACT THAT THERE ARE NON-TRADITIONAL MARKETS WHO HAVE FOUND WAYS TO MAKE HOCKEY WORK)

“But the Blues are the only expansion team to make a league finals in it's first 3 years of existance.....That's good history....” (BRINGING TEAM HISTORY TO THE FOREFRONT AND GIVING PEOPLE ANOTHER PERSPECTIVE ON A TEAM'S PLACE IN THE LEAGUE)

“Yes there is a place for hockey in non-traditional markets... Dallas, Anaheim, LA, San Jose are all proof of that!” (SUPPORT FOR THE PLACE OF WHAT WERE CONSIDERED TO BE NON-TRADITIONAL MARKETS IN THE LEAGUE INITIALLY)

“Could you imagine the talent on the teams? 80 puds that shouldn't be in the NHL are gone, now teams will have 2 sometimes 3 legit lines.” (LOOKING AT THE IMPACT THAT A 24 TEAM STRUCTURE WOULD HAVE ON A ROSTER BY ROSTER BASIS, SOMETHING THAT HAS REALLY BEEN OVERLOOKED HERE)

“I like the north/south conference would even out travel a bit” (NEW CONFERENCE STRUCTURE AND THE IMPACT ON TRAVEL)

“6. Colorado- I think they should go because I think Quebec was a great place for them. Not that Denver isnt but Quebec is the better fit imo.” (NOT EXACTLY A TEAM YOU'D EXPECT TO BE MENTIONED! BUT A GREAT DISCUSSION POINT: HOW WILL THE TEAM FARE IN THE COMING YEARS IN A SEMI-REBUILD MODE"?)

“get a team like Detriot in the east where they belong. Move Minny outta the NW..” (RESTRUCTURING OF THE CONFERENCES AND DIVISIONS, SOMETHIG THAT IS PROBLEMATIC)

“I got an idea....Whichever teams finish last in each division that year go bye-bye!” (A RADICAL IDEA, BUT AREN'T THESE THE TYPES OF THINGS THAT GENERATE SOME INTERESTING DISCUSSION?)

“when oil is lesser used the oilsands of northern Alberta will begin to not matter so much, therefore causing the city of Edmonton to need help, snowballing into a lack of a franchise for the "city of champions" (AGAIN, LOOKING AT THE CANADIAN TEAM FACTOR)

So I think that there have been some ideas exchanged here that are both interesting and outside the norm. That all being said, I really can empathize with what you're saying, and do apologize for anyone who is under the impression that I'm trying to create some type of flame war here. Some topics, such as anything having to do with losing a team, are sensitive, but I don't think that means we can't discuss them in a respectful manner.

Islanders
Florida
Atlanta
Phoenix
Nashville
Columbus

Look at that :

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance?year=2009
- Ams123

Watch the spike in Islanders attendance with Tavares.