and you weren't turning profits either, your teams were on life support, so was Ottawa, did the league threaten to move them? NO they uncovered every rock to keep them where they are, which is what they are doing for Phoenix.
- FirstClass

No they weren't, that's true. Point me out what year Phoenix has turned a profit since leaving Winnipeg? Oh that's right, sorry, you can't. That is the sign of a market that has no ability to survive. The reason the Canucks and Sens were in trouble, along with most of the Canadian teams, was the fact that salaries were paid in US dollars and incomes were in Canadian. Had the salaries been paid in Canadian $ there would have been no issue, but unfortunately for Canadian teams, that's not the way it works. They make money in Canadian $, report in American and pay the big contractual salaries in American $. A team that is in a bad spot because of a national problem is not the same as a market that is not viable.

I think realistically Canada with the much stronger dollar can support 10 teams (1 in Halifax)
- leafsprospect

Hahahahaha no I really REALLY think that NHL hockey probably would do better than Phoenix than in Halifax. Maybe a maritimes team would work, but almost undoubtedly, I'd keep NHL hockey Quebec and westward.

No they weren't, that's true. Point me out what year Phoenix has turned a profit since leaving Winnipeg? Oh that's right, sorry, you can't. That is the sign of a market that has no ability to survive. The reason the Canucks and Sens were in trouble, along with most of the Canadian teams, was the fact that salaries were paid in US dollars and incomes were in Canadian. Had the salaries been paid in Canadian $ there would have been no issue, but unfortunately for Canadian teams, that's not the way it works. They make money in Canadian $, report in American and pay the big contractual salaries in American $. A team that is in a bad spot because of a national problem is not the same as a market that is not viable.
- keslover17

Well put.

Although, I for one am not infuriated by hockey in the south like some people are. Just remember: I'm Canadian, I'm fine with southern teams in the NHL. I hope that everyone can turn a profit. I'm sure you're all very knowledgeable. That being said, if a southern fan makes one more generalization about Canadian hockey fans hating them I'M GOING TO (frank)ING SNAP!

Alanta,
Florida,
Tampa,
Phoenix,
Anahiem,
and
Nashville

1. Ottawa - imploding as we speak, and will never escape the shadow of the Leafs.
2. Edmonton - pretty much NA's version of a third world city (tied with New Orleans)
3. Colorado - without Sakic, it's all over.
4. Phoenix - will only last as long as Gretzky is the coach
5. Nashville - dumbest fans in the league, they won't last
6. Buffalo - unless they can swing relocation to Niagara Falls, which would be a gold mine.
- chirpie

And your opinion is based off of what?
Ask a Wings, Blues, or Hawks fan if we are the "dumbest fans in the league" and get back to me. Or better yet, come to Nashville and see for yourself.

Well put.

Although, I for one am not infuriated by hockey in the south like some people are. Just remember: I'm Canadian, I'm fine with southern teams in the NHL. I hope that everyone can turn a profit. I'm sure you're all very knowledgeable. That being said, if a southern fan makes one more generalization about Canadian hockey fans hating them I'M GOING TO (frank)ING SNAP!
- Morris

I'm not either tbh, what infuriates me is the teams that can't turn a profit being saved by us. Heck, I'm a Stars fan for crying out loud, I'd be a bigger hypocrite than Al Gore if I hated hockey in the south.

And your opinion is based off of what?
Ask a Wings, Blues, or Hawks fan if we are the "dumbest fans in the league" and get back to me. Or better yet, come to Nashville and see for yourself.
- FangFever6

Yeah, let's keep it respectful guys. We've got some great Nashville and Carolina fans in here who are keeping discussion on a civil level so let's all police ourselves and do the same, cool?

1. Ottawa - imploding as we speak, and will never escape the shadow of the Leafs.
2. Edmonton - pretty much NA's version of a third world city (tied with New Orleans)
3. Colorado - without Sakic, it's all over.
4. Phoenix - will only last as long as Gretzky is the coach
5. Nashville - dumbest fans in the league, they won't last
6. Buffalo - unless they can swing relocation to Niagara Falls, which would be a gold mine.
- chirpie

How does #6 make any sense whatsoever? To move 20 minutes away from the present location makes about the same sense as packing up and moving next door.

How does #6 make any sense whatsoever? To move 20 minutes away from the present location makes about the same sense as packing up and moving next door.
- sippyd

Unless the intent with that is to stick it smack dab in between both Buffalo and Hamilton as a dual-city team of sorts. Not logical in the sense of an arena but I think I know where they were going with this...

Unless the intent with that is to stick it smack dab in between both Buffalo and Hamilton as a dual-city team of sorts. Not logical in the sense of an arena but I think I know where they were going with this...
- shawn_gates

It's perfectly fine where it is.

No, it's because the whole country is in financial trouble.

EDIT: Damn you for making me DEFEND THE DALLAS STARS!!!!



- BluesFan44

I dont know whether to laugh, cry or faint here......

How about the BLUES dont SUCK so bad....

Tampa, Phoenix, Florida, columbus, atlanta, nashville

i'd substitute the wild if lemaire was still there. ahahah

these are awesome "what if" scenarios.

1.) Atlanta. Mismanagement, lack of a fan base, and just flat out lack of competitiveness will always prevent this team from being viable. Hockey works better in the South than people give it credit for - I've been to Raleigh many times, and I've seen how nuts they go over the Canes - but not here. They have too many other major sports franchises.

2.) Florida. Less competitive than Tampa (potentially), and I think it's a good policy to avoid folding cup-winning teams, if at all possible. I think removing the Florida franchise and marketing Tampa to the entire state might do some good for their fanbase.

3.) Los Angeles. There seems to be the perception here that a Southern California team should fold - and as someone that lives in LA County, I don't disagree. The market isn't strong enough to warrant two teams - at best, it'll keep them both at subsistence level; remove one, and you could (with appropriate marketing) build a very strong franchise.

My case for Los Angeles being the one to fold is pretty simple - they have had about 40 years without getting within spitting distance of the Cup (a four game sweep despite having The Great One, even with Roy backstopping the Habs, is just atrocious). In less than half that time, the Ducks came inches away from one cup win, inches away from the finals a short time later, and then won the cup decisively. Their franchise is consistently ranked one of the best in North American sports (finished in the top 15 for the past 4 or so years on ESPN rankings, and the top 5 in NHL franchises), they're the only major league team to use the Pond as a venue, and their fan base in Orange County is stronger (the Kings will always be second fiddle to the Dodgers and Lakers in Los Angeles). Better to fold them and market the Ducks to Los Angeles as well; it'll enhance the rivalry between them and San Jose.

4.) Nashville. Perennial mismanagement, lack of competitiveness, and a lacking fanbase will always make them an afterthought. Tennessee has too much else in major sports franchises for hockey to make inroads, as indiscriminately sports-crazy as the South is.

5.) Long Island. Hurts me to say this, as like I said - better to avoid folding cup-winning teams, let alone teams that had dynasties - but the situation on the Island is so atrocious and has been for so long that there's little hope of salvaging it, particularly considering their HORRIFIC management. I know their fans have been long suffering, and I feel for them, but it just doesn't make sense to keep a team that's been struggling for so long.

6.) Phoenix. This one is a no brainer. This franchise is going nowhere fast, and is serving as little more than an embarrassment to a league that's already too often vilified as the red-headed step child of major league sports.

All of these teams are in the bottom third for attendance % this past season.

Also, just to come to the defense of some hockey markets that are getting slammed here -

I can understand why someone would come down on Buffalo. They haven't always been the strongest of teams, they don't play in the largest of markets. I can completely understand that it isn't to malign their fanbase - rather, just simple math: the city of Buffalo, economically, isn't just going to hell in a handbasket; it's been there for a good 30 years.

But at the same time, provided that there is team support - and there is, if you look at their attendance numbers - why remove a team with one of the most vibrant fanbases in the United States? The only American fans that could claim to be on par with Buffalo for sheer hockey mania are Detroit and Minnesota. My first hockey game was at HSBC Arena, and I fell in love with the sport there; my mom told me when I was a kid about going to games at the Aud, and seeing stars like Lafleur and Dryden playing the Sabres there.

There are teams that deserve to go before the Sabres. There's a reason a star like Ryan Miller would stick around there. He loves the city, and he loves the team. I can think of teams where their star players are just waiting to jump ship. And Buffalo has produced some great NHL players - Todd Marchant and Patrick Kane, for starters.

As for Raleigh - they're one of the few sunbelt expansion teams (along with Anaheim) that actually panned out. I've been to Raleigh many times, including during the last playoffs, and the amount of support I saw blew me away. I've never seen that much in any hockey market. Sure, I doubt they understand the sport as well as some other fans, but one can't fault them for sheer love of their team.

Bravo!!! Not to mention Buffalo is top 3 in TV ratings in spite of many watching games on the Canadian station which isn't even included in the ratings. Other Buffalo born notables; Nick Foligno, Sabres draft pick Marcus Foligno, Lee Stempniak, Pat Kaleta, also Tim Kennedy who should be starting for the Sabres this season.

As an Isles fan I can really only try to defend my team not being eliminated..

Years of terrible ownership has caused most of the fans to stay home. One screw-up after another makes you say why should I pay good money to see this garbage.. But as a fan you do still love the team..

When Wang came aboard and the Isles brought in Yashin and Peca they made the playoffs for the first time since 94. They sold out playoff tickets in about 40 minutes. I was at 2 of those games. The building rocked like it did years ago. The fans are here, give us something to cheer for and we will be back..

People call it bandwagon fans but I think it's more taking a stand for what you want to see.. Why pay money for something I don't want to see.. Look at the Hawks. 3 years ago they would have been included in many peoples lists. Now they are back to capacity crowds and playing some great hockey. Same with the Pens.

I guess 5 years from now could tell if different story if buildings are built and economies change. Like someone else said the universe expands before it contracts. So maybe So Ontario gets a team and the winds change for the Sabres. Or Phoenix pulls off some deals coming out of bankruptcy and the team gets fans to rally like they did in Nashville.

Maybe the Dolans go to jail for money laundering and the rangers have to fold!!

Sorry couldn't resist!

As an Isles fan I can really only try to defend my team not being eliminated..

Years of terrible ownership has caused most of the fans to stay home. One screw-up after another makes you say why should I pay good money to see this garbage.. But as a fan you do still love the team..

When Wang came aboard and the Isles brought in Yashin and Peca they made the playoffs for the first time since 94. They sold out playoff tickets in about 40 minutes. I was at 2 of those games. The building rocked like it did years ago. The fans are here, give us something to cheer for and we will be back..

People call it bandwagon fans but I think it's more taking a stand for what you want to see.. Why pay money for something I don't want to see.. Look at the Hawks. 3 years ago they would have been included in many peoples lists. Now they are back to capacity crowds and playing some great hockey. Same with the Pens.

I guess 5 years from now could tell if different story if buildings are built and economies change. Like someone else said the universe expands before it contracts. So maybe So Ontario gets a team and the winds change for the Sabres. Or Phoenix pulls off some deals coming out of bankruptcy and the team gets fans to rally like they did in Nashville.

Maybe the Dolans go to jail for money laundering and the rangers have to fold!!

Sorry couldn't resist!
- MikeyBiggs

I agree, the bandwagon description is completely overstated. Keep paying for junk and that's all you'll get is junk. In a sense, the non-bandwagoners are played for suckers when they keep supporting junk.

... (a four game sweep despite having The Great One, even with Roy backstopping the Habs, is just atrocious)...
- falkan

Apologies for nit-picking, but didn't they win in 5 games?

My mistake. Could've sworn they were swept. Still, losing the series 4-1 is little better.

Interesting tidbit I found out while double checking - they've only won ONE division title in a history that spans approx. 40 years.

I don't think that's a what if.... it's more a.... when is it going to happen ?

Because one day, the canadian owners will look at their books and be like.... jesus christ... 80% of the profits from this league come from us, were sharing everything we make for what ?

For teams like Phoenix, Florida (both teams) and so on to still go bankrupt ?

Enough of that, were keeping our money.

Lookout #2 here we come.

all 3 california teams, colorado, dallas, and the coyotes. western canada can hold its own.
- thecaptain1919

You would say Colorado, wouldn't you?

all 3 california teams, colorado, dallas, and the coyotes. western canada can hold its own.
- thecaptain1919

You would say Colorado, wouldn't you?

You would say Colorado, wouldn't you?
- JJimmyCarterC

Only one of his teams makes a ton of sense. Dallas has proven to be viable, one bad year doesn't change that. Colorado's made money in the past, so they're alright. Phoenix has to go. Maybe one of the Cali teams, the Kings, should go, but the Ducks, as much as I hate them, have won a cup and deserve to have a chance despite middle of the pack levels of interest. San Jose has decent attendance and is always competitive.

Only one of his teams makes a ton of sense. Dallas has proven to be viable, one bad year doesn't change that. Colorado's made money in the past, so they're alright. Phoenix has to go. Maybe one of the Cali teams, the Kings, should go, but the Ducks, as much as I hate them, have won a cup and deserve to have a chance despite middle of the pack levels of interest. San Jose has decent attendance and is always competitive.
- keslover17

wow. You clearly put a lot of though and research into that selection. Dallas is viable but colorado isn't? Attendance is the main driver for market sustainability in san jose but that rule doesn't apply to dallas? Oh yeah and a california team has to go (not san jose because people go to the stadium) and you know the ducks won so it has to be LA. Great criteria nuck fans arg.....