Nope...only # 4 if you include the Sather rebuild after the Dynasty years (I miss that man...he would know what to do here)....there was the Gagner-Cogliano-Nillson Rebuild (FAILED), the Hall-RNH-YAK rebuild (FAILED), and now it appears we need to tear it down and build around MCDavid, Draisaitl, Klefbom and Nurse and maybe Laurent Brossoit. It sucks, but I'm all for it, as long as involves actual impact veteran players to teach these kids how to win and not lose their poop when they get down a goal. No more tanking for picks. We have lenty of tradeable assets, lets move them for the right pieces and see some Goddamned, cocksucking, sonofafemale doging progress!!!
- Jeropotato

[quote=BINGO!]
My boy Jero at it again

The Oilers really are a poopshow.

SabresPanacea
Buffalo Sabres
Location: Buffalo, NY
Joined: 08.16.2014

Friday @ 8:38 PM ET
I stayed quiet earlier about the Tim Murray subject, but i can stand it no longer.

I will admit that I was wrong about ROR. He is a very good player, better than I expected. I don't think he has a scorers touch, but he is great in every other aspect. If he did have that ability to finish I think he would be one of the best players in the league, but still, he was probably worth what we payed in the trade if not more.

BUT,

I truly believe, I am not just saying this to cause trouble or to take an opposite stance from others, I truly believe that every other trade Murray made was horrible.

The worst one, which no one ever mentions is the McNabb to LA trade. We gave up McNabb, Jonathan Parker and 2 second round picks for Deslaurier and Fasching, both bottom six prospects. Even if Deslaurier and Fasching were in this next years draft with their current age and ability, they would be second round picks at best. Furthermore, bottom six forwards play much lesser roles than a top four dman, and are much easier to find in FA than a big, offensive and physical defenseman. The trade made no sense to me, it was like we were giving away McNabb for nothing. And McNabb is doing well in LA, a week or so ago I heard he was playing on top line woth Doughty, but I didn't hear the circumstances, it may have been necessity.

I didn't want Kane and I didn't want to give up on Myers quite yet. I was willing to give Myers a few more years to figure it out. Because he was being paid like a second pair dman anyways and at worse he was that, and has the potential to be one of the better dmen in the league. I think the problem there was that he had such high expectations, and when he didn't live up to them on a terrible team, people lost patience. Anyways, Kane's reputation turned me off, and I never wanted him, so that trade was a huge overpayment to me. People always say that Stafford wouldn't be here anyways and that Lemieux wanted out too. But that fails to recognize that we could have traded those pieces, and armia too, in different deals to get value for our assets. Kane is a beast athletically, but between the ears I am not convinced yet, and I will not be surprised if or when I hear that he is a problem in some way, sometime in the not too far future, and I am sure his ego will be at the heart of the matter.

And to end with, the Lehner trade, imo, is not even debatable. It was a huge overpayment. A 21st overall draftpick for a goalie who was drafted 46th overall, who had a bad concussion, who never won the starting job with his prior organization and according to some was third on their depth chart behind Craig Anderson and Ray Emery? I think? Just ridiculous, we could have drafted the best goalie prospect in the draft with that pick, one without a concussion history. And people criticized Darcy for falling in love with "his" players.

I think Murray deserves a lot of criticism. He went all in on his trades and used up the majority of our assets for the team that you see right now. And why this makes me mad, is because he could not have had a better set-up. The Sabres were many peoples selection for the best farm system in the league. He had an abundance of extra picks, and was going to be drafting high for a few more years. And he chose to go all in on some pretty questionable trades.

There was no need to rush trades immediately, this team wasn't going to be good until all the good young players grew up a bit. We were pretty sure we would get at least Eichel in the upcoming draft and he would need a few years, All the good young dmen needed time. We could have waited for better trades or tried to add through FA. It would have been a much safer approach with less risk.

I really do think Murray hurt this team more than he helped it. And it frustrates me, because contrary to what many of you say, I do want this team to be great. And I don't see anything close to a contender even when Eichel and Reinhart grow up. And we have very little help coming, no depth defensively, a huge question mark in goal, and a lot of over the hill unproductive players. I just hope we win one of the lottery top three picks so we can fill one of the many holes on this roster.

These are my true beliefs. I am just as big a fan as any of you. I am not a troll for thinking differently than you. And insult me all you want, I wont be back to read it. But try not to get me banned by calling me names please.

I hope nfph called him an idiot and then banned him.

I hope nfph called him an idiot and then banned him.
- BINGO!

Sabres thread needs MJL

Sabres thread needs MJL
- Nucker101

Every thread needs MJL

Every thread needs MJL
- Streit2ThePoint

man, you really hate these people.

man, you really hate these people.
- kicksave856

If I have to suffer, everyone suffers

If I have to suffer, everyone suffers
- Streit2ThePoint

I will get FF16 into all your threads

Every thread needs MJL
- Streit2ThePoint

Every thread has a MJL.

The Leafs are a terrible team to use as an example of what to look forward to after years of missing the playoffs. They have the polar opposite problem compared to what the Habs are struggling with.

For a team that’s missed the playoffs all but once since 2004, Toronto has done a piss poor job drafting and developing players. Embarrassingly so. Take a look at their draft history since 2000 and it’s a smorgasbord of guys that never made it, and if they did it was with another team after Toronto traded him for a quick fix. They’ve also crapped away a ton of picks for quick fixes (Bernier, Kessel, etc) that have killed them. They currently have only 4-5 guys on their roster that they’ve actually drafted and developed themselves. I havent looked it up but that has to be a league low. Their prospect pool doesn’t excite me at all outside of Nylander and Marner. For a team with a decade of disappointment behind them they should have more than two guys with high potential to show for it. But they don’t. Almost every draft pick they’ve made over the last 15 years has failed to make the NHL.

The Habs are great at drafting and developing. Their biggest flaws are finding a coaching staff who knows how to best utilize their home grown talent, as well as being far, far too patient when it comes to moving kids into the lineup and trading assets who no longer fit our mould. The GM could have gotten something more valuable for Tinordi and Leblanc but they waited until they had been rotting in the press box/minors for so long that nobody wanted them. They’re doing the same with Bournival right now. Bergevin is patient to a fault and refuses to make a huge splash giving up long term assets. In most cases that’s good but he’s taken an extreme amount of low risk gambles (Byron, Sekac, Semin, Fleischmann, Briere, Parenteau, Murray, Boullion, Amrstrong, etc) that haven’t added much to fill out the roster instead of allowing the kids to play. His three biggest trades (Petry, Vanek, and Weise) have worked out well and little went back the other way. The Habs have 4-5 forward prospects who should be full time NHLers between now and the next season or two. We won’t have room for all of them so at some point while their value is high it’s time to package a couple of them with picks or another asset to add a top 6 forward this team desperately needs.

MT has been just as stupidly "patient" with this roster. Playing veteran grinders over guys like Chucky or Eller or Carr or Ghetto, or crappy defenseman over Beaulieu the past couple of years (or a clearly aging Markov 30 minutes a night while NB and Barberio are on the third pairing).

In summary, the Leafs need to learn patience and how to draft and develop players. They’re about 5 years behind where they should be in terms of the number of mid-high end prospects/current homegrown players they have based on how long they’ve been bottom feeders. They have a great coach and with a little more patience it’ll all come together.

The Habs, on the other hand, are great at drafting and developing but they’re overly patient/stupid with their roster decisions and they let prospects rot away until their worthless. They don’t make many changes or trades at the NHL level. They refuse to trade for a top end player unless they can abosultely rob the other team. They have a coaching staff that needs to be replaced ASAP. If they wait a few more years to make changes Patch/Subban/Price will be too old and the cup window will slam shut.

[quote=A_Tree]
spot on with the leafs but the habs are pooptier than he seems to think

spot on with the leafs but the habs are pooptier than he seems to think
- daeth

yeah, 2007 was the last great habs draft but they had 4 picks in the top 60. then there was this short run of trading away picks:
2008, no 1st rounder
2009, no 2nd
2010(tinordi, gallagher), no 2nd or 3rd
2011(beaulieu), no 2nd or 3rd
the guys picked in the later rounds from these drafts haven't amounted to much, a couple of the Dmen from late rounds in 2010/11 still have a shot at NHL careers though

2012 will have galchenyuk and probably hudon
2013 is looking like a decent haul with mccarron, de la rose, andrighetto, lehkonen. but again they had 3-4 picks in the top 60
14/15 is too early to tell

basically, try not to trade away top 60 picks.
i'm just glad i kept this a couple paragraphs short of an epic post

yeah, 2007 was the last great habs draft but they had 4 picks in the top 60. then there was this short run of trading away picks:
2008, no 1st rounder
2009, no 2nd
2010(tinordi, gallagher), no 2nd or 3rd
2011(beaulieu), no 2nd or 3rd
the guys picked in the later rounds from these drafts haven't amounted to much, a couple of the Dmen from late rounds in 2010/11 still have a shot at NHL careers though

2012 will have galchenyuk and probably hudon
2013 is looking like a decent haul with mccarron, de la rose, andrighetto, lehkonen. but again they had 3-4 picks in the top 60
14/15 is too early to tell

basically, try not to trade away top 60 picks.
i'm just glad i kept this a couple paragraphs short of an epic post
- Shutdown

It was a pretty glorious rant. I was considering re/posting it to the Leafs thread but I would get castrated by Bruce or LM.

It was a pretty glorious rant. I was considering re/posting it to the Leafs thread but I would get castrated by Bruce or LM.
- A_Tree

who was it

who was it
- Shutdown

I don't remember, it was in an Aguello thread several months ago.

*Revived*

That's ridiculous. I diagnose, treat & refer head trauma cases nearly every day, and I can tell you that Wideman's excuse was completely medically legitimate. He stated the hit by the Nashville player left him in pain, dazed & woozy and just trying to get off the ice. A nasty blow to the head doesn't need to cause a concussion in order to do damage, it can also cause (usually short term) issues such as ataxia, proprioceptive deficits, delayed / exaggerated reflexes, nausea, vision problems like tunnel vision & "seeing stars", auditory issues, memory issues, etc. The video backs him up, showing him dazed, having trouble getting back to the bench with his head down, and startled by the sudden appearance of the linesman in front of him.

Seeing reaction from not just hockey fans but also certain reporters and commentators makes one realize how far the league still has to come on recognizing the danger and symptoms of concussions and head shots, making statements like "no excuse", "he should have known better" or "head shot or not, you can't hit a ref". Obviously you can't hit an official, but people saying that he could have consciously changed his actions aren't grasping the fact that it very well may be impossible to do so - just as someone can't stop having a seizure. If Wideman had a seizure that caused him to run into the ref, no one would be talking 20 game suspension would they? Well, this is essentially the same thing. Also I'm concerned about the fact that Wideman wasn't pulled aside for concussion protocol testing immediately by either the independent spotters or team trainers, despite the fact that my 11 year old nephew could spot that he was out of it, after the hit and on the bench.

I understand and agree with a policy that suspends players for contact with referees, and I understand the referee's union had some influence on the outcome of this, but 20 games seems really excessive to me. I was expecting 5 to 10 games at the most. This is a guy who has had a squeaky clean image for his entire career, and his explanation of events is completely realistic, understandable and backed up by the video. For the record I'm not a Flames fan nor do I particularly like Wideman; I'm just commenting because a lot of people don't appear to understand the symptoms and effects a head shot can cause.
- TheMaritimer

[quote=bcallaway]
Nothing wrong with his post

[quote=bcallaway]
all the credit cards!

I might've believed Wideman had there not been video proof showing that he had his head up the entire time and lunged towards the ref to crosscheck him rather than away from him.

spot on with the leafs but the habs are pooptier than he seems to think
- daeth

He's not really spot on with the Leafs... drafting hasn't been the problem, asset management has. They're pretty decent at the draft.

Updated:


Why trade with a division rival?

Why not?

It's Tank Time in Toronto.

The 28th place Leafs are now destined to land on the NHL basement floor.

The Ottawa Senators are trying to save their playoff chances while the Leafs are in fire sale mode.

Ottawa gets Dion Phaneuf, AHLers Matt Frattin, Casey Bailey and Ryan Rupert, and defensive prospect Cody Donaghey from the Maple Leafs. The Laffs get Milan Michalek, Colin Greening and Jared Cowen.

Don't call it's a blockbuster trade. Call it a gong show.

Not the sexiest NHL blockbuster trade ever made.

This mega deal now sets up the Leafs to dive to the bottom of Lake Ontario in search of a treasure like Matthews, Laine, Tkachuk, Puljujarvi, or another top ten prospect.

The Toronto Maple Leafs have moved out $8 million in salary cap space. Steven Stamkos money, eh?

Per General Fanager, key cap hits exchanged:

Senators:
Phaneuf 6 yrs @ $7M

Leafs:
Michalek 2 years @ $4M
Cowen 2 years @ $3.1M
Greening 2 years @ $1.7M (in AHL)

Can you say salary dump?!

Just because Loafs fans and ownership want Stamkos doesn't mean the 26 year old sniping machine wants to be poked, prodded and stalked in his hometown of Toronto.

Stamkos is said to be seeking a max out, ten year contract in the $90 million stratosphere. Stamkos wants Toews, Kane, and Kopitar money. I don't see him being traded to a team who only wants to pay him $8 million per season.

PS- Even if Loafs are able to make a trade for Stamkos, who will he be playing with? Leo Komarov? David Winnick? The Leafs are a joke. Thwy have traded Kessel and Phaneuf. They will likely blow out JVR, Lupul, and Kadri. They have zero A-List performers. Who is their starting goalie? Who are their top four D? The Leafs certainly dont have Tanpa talent like Kucherov, Johnson, Palat, Filppula, Hedman, Sustr, Bishop, et al.

The Ottawa Senators have acquired Maple Leafs captain in a shocking nine-player trade weeks before the deadline.

The Leafs are in FULL TANK MODE!

Wasn't it the Toronto media that killed Tom Murray and the Buffalo Sabres when then tanked to get Jack Eichel last season.

TSN and Sportsnet are owned by the same conglomerate that owns the Maple Leafs. This trade creates content, page views, and ratings across all media platforms on TSN and Sportsnet.

Leafs GM Lou Lamoriello and his boss Brendan Shanahan now absorb woefully under performing D Jared Cowen, and forwards who have fallen out of favor with the Sens in Milan Michalek, Colin Greening, who has been buried in Bingo for the past two seasons. Sens GM Bryan Murray also ponied up prospect Tobias Lindberg and a second-round pick in the 2017 draft.

There is no salary being retained by either team.

Phaneuf, the Maple Leafs' captain for the past six seasons, is the centerpiece of the deal.

Wasn't he Mike Babcock's bell cow this season?

The 30-year-old D has five years left on his contract at a salary-cap hit of $7 million. The Leafs will not be retaining any of Phaneuf's salary, which is huge for Ottawa.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Leafs traded Nazem Kari now.

Why would they not ask Toronto to eat 50% of Dion's monster money?

Bryan Murray

"For me (this trade) was about hockey. We talked over the weekend. Lou and I spent a lot of time on the phone."

Lou Lamoriello has said that the Leafs will not be naming a captain to succeed Neon Dion. One more bone to throw Stamkos, right?

He's not really spot on with the Leafs... drafting hasn't been the problem, asset management has. They're pretty decent at the draft.
- Feeling Glucky?

How many players on the team were drafted outside the first round by the Leafs? Komarov, Reimer, who else? They've been terrible at drafting too. Well below average.