Coach Peter Horachek was asked moments later about Kessel’s take, and how he can get the players to get that attitude turned around into something positive.

“We’re playing the best game in the world and still getting paid pretty good money to do it,” Horachek said.

“They have to take that into consideration. Suck it up and let’s go. Because you are not winning the game, let’s do something about it. Let’s win the game. Let’s play and be focused for 60 minutes. Let’s make sure we are all ready to play within the confines of our structure and play with passion. Let’s do those things. They’re getting paid pretty good money.”

The Leafs have one in win in their past 21 road games. They were blanked in western Canada, and lost the three games while giving up a total of 14 goals and scoring just five.
- Doppleganger

the players are in a tough spot now.. doesnt matter what they say its twisted to reflect bad on them.

Kessel is not happy about losing, he is told to suck it up
If he is fine, he then doesn't care and isnt trying

Bottom line is, the leafs are tanking... players were moved out and brought in to help facilitate that. you have Brewer and Macwilliam playing 18 mins and 3 of the 4 Centers are Bozak, Sill and Smith ... the team is built to lose now

Kessel's -35 this year is actually the 5th worst mark in Leafs history, behind a few rookie Dmen in the 1980's Gary Nylund (1984-85) -37 and Jim Benning (1984-85) -39, & Tom Fergus (1988-89) -38, and Daniel Marois (1990-91) -36.

Kessel's pals Bozak (-33) and JVR (-32) ..

Kessel's -35 this year is actually the 5th worst mark in Leafs history, behind a few rookie Dmen in the 1980's Gary Nylund (1984-85) -37 and Jim Benning (1984-85) -39, & Tom Fergus (1988-89) -38, and Daniel Marois (1990-91) -36.

Kessel's pals Bozak (-33) and JVR (-32) ..
- Doppleganger

Man. If only it was a stat anyone who knew anything about hockey cared about.

Man. If only it was a stat anyone who knew anything about hockey cared about.
- Feeling Glucky?

Oh you guys (leaf fans) were all over the +/- stat when you were all trying to portray Karlsson as a terrible defensive player, but now that he's a plus 8 of the season, then all of a sudden it's a stat that "nobody cares about" because superstar Kessel is practically the poster boy for it.

Oh you guys (leaf fans) were all over the +/- stat when you were all trying to portray Karlsson as a terrible defensive player, but now that he's a plus 8 of the season, then all of a sudden it's a stat that "nobody cares about" because superstar Kessel is practically the poster boy for it.
- Doppleganger

No, we were "all over" that stat because you love using it, and we were pointing out how the tools you like tend to be ignored when they portray your team's players negatively.


Funny how his +/- only went up when he got a hot goalie behind him though, eh?

No, we were "all over" that stat because you love using it, and we were pointing out how the tools you like tend to be ignored when they portray your team's players negatively.


Funny how his +/- only went up when he got a hot goalie behind him though, eh?
- Feeling Glucky?

he was already a + player before hammond took the crease

No, we were "all over" that stat because you love using it, and we were pointing out how the tools you like tend to be ignored when they portray your team's players negatively.


Funny how his +/- only went up when he got a hot goalie behind him though, eh?
- Feeling Glucky?

His + - rating rose well before our AHL started playing in the NHL, it started when his regular partner returned to the line up, and also with the coaching change, and system change.

He's better than ANY D man on the leafs team and in their system......... and remember, you said you'd rather have Robidas than Karlsson on your team, if you were the GM.


Karlsson > Robidas

His + - rating rose well before our AHL started playing in the NHL, it started when his regular partner returned to the line up, and also with the coaching change, and system change.

He's better than ANY D man on the leafs team and in their system......... and remember, you said you'd rather have Robidas than Karlsson on your team, if you were the GM.


Karlsson > Robidas
- Doppleganger

I said you would rather have Robidas, based on your criteria for judging players.

I said you would rather have Robidas, based on your criteria for judging players.
- Feeling Glucky?

Wow, now you have to lie in order to make yourself look less pathetic. That's retty sad for you.


I never said that, and to think that I would NOT prefer a former Norris trophy winner, who may even be in the top five in voting this season, over a plug like Robidas is just ridiculous.

Here is my post, when I asked another poster about who they would not trade straight up for Karllson

Please tell me the names of every defenceman on the leafs roster, that YOU would not trade straight up for Karlsson, if YOU were GM, and Ottawa would take back enough of Karlssons' Salary to make the trade even up contract cost wise.
- Doppleganger

and here is your answer (to my question to another poster)

Well, based on your logic, of +/- being king of defensive stats, Holzer, who we traded would be one, and Robidas would be the other. Both are obviously superior defensively, which is what you want from a defenseman.
- Feeling Glucky?

perhaps you should just stop making yourself look so bad (if you were the leafs GM) and just stop trying to spin this myth of yours some more.


Karlsson> than any Dman on the leafs roster and in their system.

Wow, now you have to lie in order to make yourself look less pathetic. That's retty sad for you.


I never said that, and to think that I would NOT prefer a former Norris trophy winner, who may even be in the top five in voting this season, over a plug like Robidas is just ridiculous.

Here is my post, when I asked another poster about who they would not trade straight up for Karllson





and here is your answer (to my question to another poster)




perhaps you should just stop making yourself look so bad (if you were the leafs GM) and just stop trying to spin this myth of yours some more.


Karlsson> than any Dman on the leafs roster and in their system.
- Doppleganger

Good job on proving what I said.



Using your methodology, Karlsson was inferior to Robidas.

Idea is to show your hypocrisy, hoping you'll get it one day and be a reasonable poster.

Good job on proving what I said.



Using your methodology, Karlsson was inferior to Robidas.

Idea is to show your hypocrisy, hoping you'll get it one day and be a reasonable poster.
- Feeling Glucky?

Still playing the idiot I see.

what part of "Please tell me the names of every defenceman on the leafs roster, that YOU would not trade straight up for Karlsson, if YOU were GM" did you not understand?



EDIT,

my apologies to all the idiots out there.

.

Still playing the idiot I see.

what part of "Please tell me the names of every defenceman on the leafs roster, that YOU would not trade straight up for Karlsson, if YOU were GM" did you not understand?



EDIT,
.
- Doppleganger

I answered your question using your methodology. Since you seem to think you're an expert, I thought you'd like that.

I answered your question using your methodology. Since you seem to think you're an expert, I thought you'd like that.
- Feeling Glucky?

what part of "Please tell me the names of every defenceman on the leafs roster, that YOU would not trade straight up for Karlsson, if YOU were GM" did you not understand?

Well, based on your logic, of +/- being king of defensive stats, Holzer, who we traded would be one, and Robidas would be the other. Both are obviously superior defensively, which is what you want from a defenseman.
- Feeling Glucky?

Did not specify any criteria except for "straight up" trade for, and taking back salary.


spin away you fool!!

what part of "Please tell me the names of every defenceman on the leafs roster, that YOU would not trade straight up for Karlsson, if YOU were GM" did you not understand?








Did not specify any criteria except for "straight up" trade for, and taking back salary.


spin away you fool!!
- Doppleganger

Sorry, I was using criteria you used in previous posts.

Like how Ryan and Kessel should only be compared on goals, because they're goalscorers.

Therefore, since Robidas and Karlsson are both defensemen, it only makes sense to compare them on defensive stats.


So I thought to myself, what's the stupidest Dopp's favourite stat to use for defensive ability?

+/-!

So it made sense to use +/- as the sole judge of the players' value... in your honour.

Sorry, I was using criteria you used in previous posts.

Like how Ryan and Kessel should only be compared on goals, because they're goalscorers.

Therefore, since Robidas and Karlsson are both defensemen, it only makes sense to compare them on defensive stats.


So I thought to myself, what's the stupidest Dopp's favourite stat to use for defensive ability?

+/-!

So it made sense to use +/- as the sole judge of the players' value... in your honour.
- Feeling Glucky?

funny to see how far you'll stretch to spin two separate points, in two different posts into something that you think is what is the truth.


I guess your insistence that you have to spend to the Cap to win the cap means the leafs will win the cup this year right.



classic trolling my good friend, at least you admit to it.

funny to see how far you'll stretch to spin two separate points, in two different posts into something that you think is what is the truth.


I guess your insistence that you have to spend to the Cap to win the cap means the leafs will win the cup this year right.



classic trolling my good friend, at least you admit to it.
- Doppleganger

Quick little management lesson for you:

When a business is looking at making an order, they put out a request for proposal to many other businesses, to see what options they have.

In order to narrow down the options, the first step is to throw out any proposal that doesn't meet their qualifying conditions. After that, they look at other aspects of the proposals to determine the winning proposal.



Now, lets take this back to hockey: Ability/Willingness to spend to the cap is, as history has shown, a qualifying condition. If you don't spend, you're not going to win. Period. It's not a winning condition... but you shouldn't even talk about winning if you're not going to qualify.



Edit: and I'm not stretching any points. I'm using your logic to show you just how bad it is.

If rebuilding means you have a horrible team and your attendance dwindles, then you might be afraid to do a full rebuild. I've never understood people claiming Toronto isn't patient enough for a full rebuild because ownership won't lose a dime. If any team can withstand a long-term rebuild, it's the Leafs. They building will be full no matter what.
- RogerRoeper

Leafs offering half-price game tickets
http://www.torontosun.com...g-half-price-game-tickets


Abysmal Leafs fail to sell out Air Canada Centre for first time in arena’s history; will we see more non-sellouts?
http://www.thehockeynews....we-see-more-non-sellouts/

some oldies but goodies

To the original point, it would take an enormous disaster for any team in the NE to finish behind the Sens. Don't stress it, you'll get another good pick.
- prock

The sens don't measure up with anyone. They'll be fifth barring a disaster of epic proportions by another team. They're the worst in the division at every position.
- prock

The Sens as a whole are a basement dwelling team that don't measure up to anyone in the division.

You're going to have to set your sites lower and look outside the division. Maybe Florida?
- prock

Sens need everything to go perfect to get about 11th spot, and a other teams to tank out along with that. There is one top 6 player on the roster, now that Alfredsson looks to be done for.
- prock

Michalek hasn't put up more than about a 40 point pace in two years. Basically, since he's been off Joe Thornton's wing. At best, these guys are capable of being it, but haven't really been in a while. They have one top 6 forward, and you're hoping two more will be again.
- prock

It appears that they might be getting the not-so-good Anderson this year. With a sv% that ranks as second worst in the league, and a GAA which is only exceeded by his backup, it appears that there might not be any teams in the league, let alone the division or province, with a worse defense and goalie combination.
- prock

the Sens are as people expected. A roster devoid of very much NHL caliber talent.
- prock

The Sens offense sucks. They have one line, and then a bunch of plugs. Not a chance in hell Karlsson keeps scoring like has been.

And you think the LEAFS scoring will dry up?


The Sens scoring is more likely to dry up, and probably drop off more significantly than the Leafs..... And then, you're left with a team that is giving up the most goals in the NHL. By a wide margin.

Ottawa is going to be a basement team this year. It's pretty much a sure thing.

They may not stay where they are. I fully expect them to slip a bit. But not to the basement. Where I expect the Sens to slip to.
- prock

The Sens are still the bottom feeding crap of the division. the Leafs? Miles and miles better.
- prock

And the Leafs have more capable goalies behind them. One of them even outperformed lehner last year.
- prock

.

Leafs offering half-price game tickets
http://www.torontosun.com...g-half-price-game-tickets


Abysmal Leafs fail to sell out Air Canada Centre for first time in arena’s history; will we see more non-sellouts?
http://www.thehockeynews....we-see-more-non-sellouts/
- Doppleganger

16 years of sellouts.. wow..

I wouldnt go to a game if the ticket was free... I might if they threw in free parking and a few beers. but probably still wouldnt

16 years of sellouts.. wow..

I wouldnt go to a game if the ticket was free... I might if they threw in free parking and a few beers. but probably still wouldnt
- senstroll

What about free transportation from CP to toronto, and a admission to the HHOF thrown in?

16 years of sellouts.. wow..

I wouldnt go to a game if the ticket was free... I might if they threw in free parking and a few beers. but probably still wouldnt
- senstroll

About time ,TMLSE has made enough money ,while providing their very loyal group of fans nothing but broken promises.Now they can suffer a bit ,and fix the crap they created

What about free transportation from CP to toronto, and a admission to the HHOF thrown in?
- Doppleganger

depends when...and if I am busy or not..but I really dont want to be forced to watch them live right now

depends when...and if I am busy or not..but I really dont want to be forced to watch them live right now
- senstroll

What about on TV?

Phil Kessel, David Booth fight during practice
http://news.nationalpost....th-fight-during-practice/