This thread will come full circle once Dopps comes in to claim that the stat sheets don't show that Karlsson coughed it up...
- Morris

Turnovers are listed somewhere.

But really? Arguing that the reigning Norris trophy winner can't play defence..........that's a laugh, and really should not be taken seriously.

It's obvious someone just hates, for hatings sake.

I believe Prock said in this thread that Karlsson could not break into the Leafs top 4.
- spatso

the turris trade is looking like a steal at the moment, rundblad hasn't done much at all in NA. Lots of talent but looks like he can't make the adjustment to the NA game. Reminds me of stralman at this point.

Losing out on tarasenko is a risk you take when trading a 1st round pick. In the end its going to work out for the sens getting a decent 2nd line centre and the blues who get a top 6 winger and potentially a major impact player.
- sens rock

Besides, everyone knew Tarasenko was committed to the KHL for two seasons, and Ottawa had been screwed around by a couple of Russians in the past, and did not want to go through that again, so decided on Rundblad over whomever they had ranked at that selection (St Louis took Tarasenko, but no one knows who Ottawa had ranked there)

When the need for a second line Center came about last season, they flipped Rundblad for Turris.

So far this chain of trades has worked out well for all teams involved except for the Coyotes so far.

Besides, everyone knew Tarasenko was committed to the KHL for two seasons, and Ottawa had been screwed around by a couple of Russians in the past, and did not want to go through that again, so decided on Rundblad over whomever they had ranked at that selection (St Louis took Tarasenko, but no one knows who Ottawa had ranked there)

When the need for a second line Center came about last season, they flipped Rundblad for Turris.

So far this chain of trades has worked out well for all teams involved except for the Coyotes so far.
- Doppleganger

So much so, they traded a 3rd for another Russian project Filatov

So much so, they traded a 3rd for another Russian project Filatov
- senstroll

Did not like that deal, but a third rounder which turned out to be 66th overall, not a great loss. Who did they use the pick on?

But using a first round selection on a Russian, who said he was going to stay in the KHL for a couple of seasons, and maybe more was not a risk worth taking I guess.

Not really sure why this thread is returning for detailed discussion. I have a theory that it likely has something to do with the fact that Kessel is struggling and, by comparison, Dougie Hamilton has arrived with a splash.
- spatso

Like every other thread that comes back from the dead it's because Dopps bumped it.

Like every other thread that comes back from the dead it's because Dopps bumped it.
- daeth

If Tarasenko ends up as good as it appears he will that's up there with the Kessel deal. Nobody talks about it though because unlike the Leafs nobody gives a poop about the Sens.
- daeth

This is really stretching. Ottawa has a history of doing deals when they draft around the 15th spot. They have traded the pick or drafted player away, they have acquired the pick and player in that space.

In the end when everything is balanced out and the wheeling and dealing is finished, Ottawa ends up getting Karlsson and Turris. They give up Rundblad and Tarasenko.

You can spend a whole bunch of time trying to figure out who won and who lost. It will be a few years and, perhaps a Stanley Cup, before you can finalize the decision. But, more important, you know there are a whole bunch of teams that just wish they could be in the game and on either side of the deals.

This is really stretching. Ottawa has a history of doing deals when they draft around the 15th spot. They have traded the pick or drafted player away, they have acquired the pick and player in that space.

In the end when everything is balanced out and the wheeling and dealing is finished, Ottawa ends up getting Karlsson and Turris. They give up Rundblad and Tarasenko.

You can spend a whole bunch of time trying to figure out who won and who lost. It will be a few years and, perhaps a Stanley Cup, before you can finalize the decision. But, more important, you know there are a whole bunch of teams that just wish they could be in the game and on either side of the deals.
- spatso

One of these players has won a major NHL award, so right now I'll suggest that Ottawa has the edge when comparing the two Ottawa players to the two who are in two other organizations.

This is really stretching. Ottawa has a history of doing deals when they draft around the 15th spot. They have traded the pick or drafted player away, they have acquired the pick and player in that space.

In the end when everything is balanced out and the wheeling and dealing is finished, Ottawa ends up getting Karlsson and Turris. They give up Rundblad and Tarasenko.

You can spend a whole bunch of time trying to figure out who won and who lost. It will be a few years and, perhaps a Stanley Cup, before you can finalize the decision. But, more important, you know there are a whole bunch of teams that just wish they could be in the game and on either side of the deals.
- spatso

How does Karlsson factor into the Turris/Rundblad/Tarasnko trade?

How does Karlsson factor into the Turris/Rundblad/Tarasnko trade?
- senstroll

He said
" history of doing deals when they draft around the 15th spot. They have traded the pick or drafted player away, they have acquired the pick and player in that space."

So I guess he was referring to trading up to select Karlsson, and the swap of a pick for Rundblad, who was traded for Turris. St Louis used the pick they trades Rundblad for Tarasenko.

He said
" history of doing deals when they draft around the 15th spot. They have traded the pick or drafted player away, they have acquired the pick and player in that space."

So I guess he was referring to trading up to select Karlsson, and the swap of a pick for Rundblad, who was traded for Turris. St Louis used the pick they trades Rundblad for Tarasenko.
- Doppleganger

ok so he doesn't...got it

He said
" history of doing deals when they draft around the 15th spot. They have traded the pick or drafted player away, they have acquired the pick and player in that space."

So I guess he was referring to trading up to select Karlsson, and the swap of a pick for Rundblad.
- Doppleganger

It is actually interesting if you look at the history of teams that were active in dealing in the mid range of picks. In the context of Ottawa, you have to start by observing that Phoenix took Tuuris with the 3rd overall pick in 2007. Ottawa had been to the Cup final the year before and they picked 29th and took Jimmy O'Brien who scored the tying goal last night.

The next year 2008 Ottawa gave Nashville the 18th pick and a 3rd rounder to move up to 16th and take Karlsson.

In 2009 Ottawa takes Cowen at 9. St Louis takes Rundbad at 17th.

In 2010 Ottawa trades their 16th pick to St Louis for Rundblad. St Louis uses the pick to take Tarasenko.

In 2011 Ottawa trades Rundblad and a 2nd to Phoenix for Turris.

The point is that you need to look at the total package of work. Perhaps every team involved in the dealing improved themselves in relation to what they did for their own teams.

The idea that Ottawa dealing the 16th pick to St Louis who did a great draft of Tarasenko is similar to Burke dealing Seguin and Hamilton for Kessel is ludicrous. At no time did Nashville, Phoenix, St. Louis or Ottawa take themselves out of the draft. They shuffled picks and prospects consistent with the beliefs of their scouting team and with the management style they follow.

ok so he doesn't...got it
- senstroll

Clearly he's referring to players Ottawa has selected/or picks traded, in the middle of the first round

Nazem Kadri and Mikhael Grabovski would be leading the Senators in points.

Or they'd be tied for lead. Less bias plz.


Also, the pick doesn't matter, the player does.
- Feeling Glucky?

They didnt trade Tarasenko. They traded a mid-first rounder.

They didnt trade Tarasenko. They traded a mid-first rounder.
- sanfordnson

Just like Burke didnt trade Seguin and Hamilton he traded 2 1sts

Just like Burke didnt trade Seguin and Hamilton he traded 2 1sts
- senstroll

to take that a step further, he traded two firsts of unknown position.

Evaluating trades can never be done in a wholly consequentialist manner, nor can it be done merely as a matter of principle (deontological, if you will).

However, trolls are always good at bending a trade in one way or another, to make it look better/worse.

They didnt trade Tarasenko. They traded a mid-first rounder.
- sanfordnson

That has already been pointed out (scroll back) .

to take that a step further, he traded two firsts of unknown position.
- prock

He traded two first of unknown position with a crappy team

to take that a step further, he traded two firsts of unknown position.
- prock

And, of course, that was the fatal flaw. A whimsical decision that would ultimately cost him his job. More important, a decision that likely set the Leafs back two or three years in their rebuild.

There now appears to be a growing body of opinion that the Leafs should trade Kessel while they are still able to get some value for him.

I am not sure that is a useful pathway at this point in time.

This is really stretching. Ottawa has a history of doing deals when they draft around the 15th spot. They have traded the pick or drafted player away, they have acquired the pick and player in that space.

In the end when everything is balanced out and the wheeling and dealing is finished, Ottawa ends up getting Karlsson and Turris. They give up Rundblad and Tarasenko.

You can spend a whole bunch of time trying to figure out who won and who lost. It will be a few years and, perhaps a Stanley Cup, before you can finalize the decision. But, more important, you know there are a whole bunch of teams that just wish they could be in the game and on either side of the deals.
- spatso

No.

No.
- daeth

The Oilers traded Jason Smith and Lupul for Pitkanen. Then we traded him for Cole. Then we traded him for O'Sullivan. Then we traded him for Jim Vandermeer.

Then we drafted Hall, RNH and Yakupov and signed Schultz.

Are you telling me you'd rather have Smith and Lupul than Hall, RNH, Yakupov and Schultz? Get real.

The Oilers traded Jason Smith and Lupul for Pitkanen. Then we traded him for Cole. Then we traded him for O'Sullivan. Then we traded him for Jim Vandermeer.

Then we drafted Hall, RNH and Yakupov and signed Schultz.

Are you telling me you'd rather have Smith and Lupul than Hall, RNH, Yakupov and Schultz? Get real.
- Morris

Leafs traded Wendel Clark for Sundin. Another time they traded Beauchemin for Gardiner and Lupul. Can't forget Gary Leeman and scraps for Gilmour. Really in the end the Leafs traded Clark, Leeman, Seguin, Beauchemin, and Hamilton and ended up with Sundin, Lupul, Gardiner, Gilmour, and Kessel. That's not that bad.