Logic ??,EM cant keep selling the rebuild forever ,he will need to show he means buisness or we become the montreal expo,s version 2
- top shelf 15

So bringing in MacArthur & Ryan, did not show you he means business, after Gonchar and Alfredsson left?

How about signing Turris and Cowan to long term contracts?

If he doesnt spend to keep our tallent, then his profit margins will take a hit in terms of attendence.Its still hasnt recovered from the whole alfie mess ,if he (frank)s with the fans much further he will face a boycott at the gate
- top shelf 15

Which is a powerful tool for fans to have. Look at Edmonton, for all their management bashing the fans still go to the games, but the jerseys, and then throw them in the ice

So bringing in MacArthur & Ryan, did not show you he means business, after Gonchar and Alfredsson left?

How about signing Turris and Cowan to long term contracts?
- Doppleganger

Keeping a guy like alfie ,and signing mac along with trading for ryan would have made much more a statement.Saying you are overbudget when 27 other teams spend, more than you ,says something else totally different

Which is a powerful tool for fans to have. Look at Edmonton, for all their management bashing the fans still go to the games, but the jerseys, and then throw them in the ice
- Morris

The leafs would have 10 cups by now ,if they could hurt the faceless corperate money making machine they are

So bringing in MacArthur & Ryan, did not show you he means business, after Gonchar and Alfredsson left?

How about signing Turris and Cowan to long term contracts?
- Doppleganger

Don't forget, at the time of the signing, MacArthur was one of the Leaf's spare parts.

Good on him if he's actually turned himself around. But he was downright awful after his first couple of seasons with the Leafs.

Logic ??,EM cant keep selling the rebuild forever ,he will need to show he means buisness or we become the montreal expo,s version 2
- top shelf 15

Not a source he's familiar with.

Did you watch the entire series?
- Doppleganger

My eyes were closed for the durations of time that I was blinking. Also, I distinctly remember going to the bathroom at 12:23 of the 3rd period in game 2.

Don't worry, it was number 1 so I wasn't gone long.

Don't forget, at the time of the signing, MacArthur was one of the Leaf's spare parts.

Good on him if he's actually turned himself around. But he was downright awful after his first couple of seasons with the Leafs.
- Feeling Glucky?

Not many were good ,especially the coach.Mac is a good player ,with good players i believe.Turris and Ryan are two of our best .This along with a good offensive style coach that works with his strengths are probably the main reasoning behind his turn around .This isnt to say he didnt play with good players in Toronto ,maybe just ottawa for now is the better fit for his playing style

Keeping a guy like alfie ,and signing mac along with trading for ryan would have made much more a statement.Saying you are overbudget when 27 other teams spend, more than you ,says something else totally different

- top shelf 15

That's just it. This team could have Alfie, Ryan, Mac and Gonchar right now if they wanted to.

That's just it. This team could have Alfie, Ryan, Mac and Gonchar right now if they wanted to.
- Morris

Yep put alfie on this team and i dont think we scratching and clawing our way along here.We have more depth and a very good leader to right the ship when the kids get overwhelmed.

Not many were good ,especially the coach.Mac is a good player ,with good players i believe.Turris and Ryan are two of our best .This along with a good offensive style coach that works with his strengths are probably the main reasoning behind his turn around .This isnt to say he didnt play with good players in Toronto ,maybe just ottawa for now is the better fit for his playing style

- top shelf 15

He's a third wheel kind of guy. If you've got a good pairing, throw him with them and he'll put up points.

He was with some pretty good guys in Toronto... the Grabo-Kulemin pairing, and the Kadri-Lupul pairing last year... but outside of his first year(for some reason I thought he was here a bit longer than he was), he killed more offensive plays than he assisted on. More often than not, if the puck touched his stick, the next guy who'd have it would be on the other team. Just wiffed on shots and gave the puck away non-stop. .

IMO, the team improved as soon as he left.


Edit: which isn't to say he's just as bad with the Sens. But he was less than useless here. Like you said, could just have needed a different fit. His first season with the Leafs, I was a huge fan of his.

That's just it. This team could have Alfie, Ryan, Mac and Gonchar right now if they wanted to.
- Morris

Neither Gonchar or Alfredsson were going to get the money they wanted from Ottawa.

And Gonchar for $5 Million for 2 years...........how do you think that would have been taken if Murray gave him that?

Neither Gonchar or Alfredsson were going to get the money they wanted from Ottawa.

And Gonchar for $5 Million for 2 years...........how do you think that would have been taken if Murray gave him that?
- Doppleganger

Would have looked like a GM keeping his veteran group together to help the young team compete. Pretty much exactly what it looks like in Dallas.

Neither Gonchar or Alfredsson were going to get the money they wanted from Ottawa.

And Gonchar for $5 Million for 2 years...........how do you think that would have been taken if Murray gave him that?
- Doppleganger

That's precisely what I'm saying. Ottawa can't offer the money to retain players they ought to keep.

Wouldn't it be better to overpay players and be good then not to retain them and suck?

Neither Gonchar or Alfredsson were going to get the money they wanted from Ottawa.

And Gonchar for $5 Million for 2 years...........how do you think that would have been taken if Murray gave him that?
- Doppleganger

But we are going to give away assets for a guy like hemsky or moulson ??We had a clutch veteran player ,that was still able to contribute,not to mention he was the best player we ever had in our 20 years of exsistance.And did many great things for our team and city ,and we pissed that all away because we didnt want to give him 10 mil over the next 2 season.Kovelev made that for nothing

This isn't a dig at Ottawa or their fans by the way.

Just because one is a fan of the team, doesn't mean they need to own and support everything that team does.

There are a laundry list of things I hate about the Oilers related to owners, management, coaches, players and ice girls, but it really has no bearing on whether I truly support the team or anything - I do.

He's a third wheel kind of guy. If you've got a good pairing, throw him with them and he'll put up points.

He was with some pretty good guys in Toronto... the Grabo-Kulemin pairing, and the Kadri-Lupul pairing last year... but outside of his first year(for some reason I thought he was here a bit longer than he was), he killed more offensive plays than he assisted on. More often than not, if the puck touched his stick, the next guy who'd have it would be on the other team. Just wiffed on shots and gave the puck away non-stop. .

IMO, the team improved as soon as he left.


Edit: which isn't to say he's just as bad with the Sens. But he was less than useless here. Like you said, could just have needed a different fit. His first season with the Leafs, I was a huge fan of his.
- Feeling Glucky?

At 3.5 mil he has been a bargin,but at 5 mil and the uncertainty of him staying at the same level .Makes him a tough descision at renewal time

That's precisely what I'm saying. Ottawa can't offer the money to retain players they ought to keep.

Wouldn't it be better to overpay players and be good then not to retain them and suck?
- Morris

The importance of veteran players can't be overstated. Mind you, between suspensions and injuries, Toronto's veteran acquisitions haven't really panned out, but at least the team's still doing well.

That's precisely what I'm saying. Ottawa can't offer the money to retain players they ought to keep.

Wouldn't it be better to overpay players and be good then not to retain them and suck?
- Morris

So which D-man would Ottawa have chosen to be removed from the line up to retain Gonchar at $5 million for two years?

it is true that ultimately to be a consistent contender you more than likely need an owner willing to spend money, of course the problem is you end up like the flyers, constantly overpaying, and then repeatedly trying to re-shuffle the deck with little in the way of elite talent.

you win in this league by drafting and cultivating your own talent, locking them down long term, and then using free agency and trades to supplement them. any organization that doesn't invest alot of resources into drafting is foolish, and behind the times

So which D-man would Ottawa have chosen to be removed from the line up to retain Gonchar at $5 million for two years?
- Doppleganger

Well lets see, you've got four quite regular defensemen and then

Weircoch
Gryba
Ceci
Corvo
Borowecki.

I think Gonchar easily slots in above those guys, and more than likely slides one of the other guys and sits in the 2nd pairing.

Well lets see, you've got four quite regular defensemen and then

Weircoch
Gryba
Ceci
Corvo
Borowecki.

I think Gonchar easily slots in above those guys, and more than likely slides one of the other guys and sits in the 2nd pairing.
- Morris

On a team re-building for the future?

On a team re-building for the future?
- Doppleganger

The team went to the second round of the playoffs last year, right? And they had a trade lined up for an impact winger at the cost of two good prospects and a 1st. Strikes me that rather than it being a question of team direction, it was a question of (not having enough) money to keep Gonchar and Alfredsson.

Which is too bad, because the Sens are better with those players than with their replacements.

The team went to the second round of the playoffs last year, right? And they had a trade lined up for an impact winger at the cost of two good prospects and a 1st. Strikes me that rather than it being a question of team direction, it was a question of (not having enough) money to keep Spezza and Alfredsson.

Which is too bad, because the Sens are better with those players than with their replacements.
- Morris

You could say they overacheived in a shortened season... or you could say they took a step back because they let their veteran leadership walk.


Their moves point to a franchise with no clear direction

The team went to the second round of the playoffs last year, right? And they had a trade lined up for an impact winger at the cost of two good prospects and a 1st. Strikes me that rather than it being a question of team direction, it was a question of (not having enough) money to keep Spezza and Alfredsson.

Which is too bad, because the Sens are better with those players than with their replacements.
- Morris

Spezza still had two years on his contract, so I don't see how that played into it, in your scenario. Alfredsson was coming back for one year, so would not be around when Spezza's contract was up.