I guess people struggle to pick up on sarcasm
- jak521

I figured, but wasn't sure, hence asking.

the internet, unfortunately, does not afford us the luxury of inflection.

I figured, but wasn't sure, hence asking.

the internet, unfortunately, does not afford us the luxury of inflection.
- BulliesPhan87

I think Carter is fine defensively when he isn't scoring. He's mindful of his positioning and was, along with most of the skaters, rather effective in keeping the puck out to the perimeter, aay from in front of the net.

As for "paid to score", all players, especially star players, are paid to play their best hockey in all aspects of the game. He's just as much paid for defensive responsiblity as he his for scoring, especially considering his position.
- BulliesPhan87

im not saying he becomes danny briere defensively, but you can tell when he isnt scoring that his complete effort isnt there. i think most players are like that.

as for "paid for defensive responsibility" i completely disagree. carter is paid because he scores goals. just like every other goal scorer. if he has a good defensive game as well, thats great. but scorers are paid to be scorers.

I think Carter is fine defensively when he isn't scoring. He's mindful of his positioning and was, along with most of the skaters, rather effective in keeping the puck out to the perimeter, aay from in front of the net.

As for "paid to score", all players, especially star players, are paid to play their best hockey in all aspects of the game. He's just as much paid for defensive responsiblity as he his for scoring, especially considering his position.
- BulliesPhan87

Blair Betts is paid to play defensive hockey, in the forwards position. Just saying.

im not saying he becomes danny briere defensively, but you can tell when he isnt scoring that his complete effort isnt there. i think most players are like that.

as for "paid for defensive responsibility" i completely disagree. carter is paid because he scores goals. just like every other goal scorer. if he has a good defensive game as well, thats great. but scorers are paid to be scorers.
- flyershockey

try learning about the responsibilities of the center position in hockey

try learning about the responsibilities of the center position in hockey
- marooninja

I play center. Its the most exhausting position on the ice. In order to be successful at any level at the center position, you need to play a 2 way game. However, Carter is making big bucks, not because he is a defensive stalwart, but because he is an offensive force.

Its like that in any position... look at Brian Campbell who just happens to be the highest (or one of the highest) paid d-men in the game. Yet, defensively he couldnt even be mentioned in the same sentence as some defenders.

Scoring points is what gets you big contracts.

Blair Betts is paid to play defensive hockey, in the forwards position. Just saying.
- jak521

I think all players have a defined role on a team and they are paid to perform that particular role.

Though they expect Zherdev to check, they won't expect him to lead the team in plus/minus. And although they expect Betts to pop a few in from time to time, they shouldn't expect him to be in the top five in scoring.

I play center. Its the most exhausting position on the ice. In order to be successful at any level at the center position, you need to play a 2 way game. However, Carter is making big bucks, not because he is a defensive stalwart, but because he is an offensive force.
- jak521

correct, he earns extra money because he can score, on top of his defensive responsibilities.

he's not paid to just score goals, and the defensive stuff is just a bonus.

im not saying he becomes danny briere defensively, but you can tell when he isnt scoring that his complete effort isnt there. i think most players are like that.

as for "paid for defensive responsibility" i completely disagree. carter is paid because he scores goals. just like every other goal scorer. if he has a good defensive game as well, thats great. but scorers are paid to be scorers.
- flyershockey

I saw him out there making an solid effort and offering defensive contributions throughout the season, especially in December. He employed an effective physical edge, attempting to generate offense on a team that had none. He carried this through the season, until his foot injuries occurred.

Which brings me to the second response and the rest of that point: he still lead the team in scoring. clearly he, if anybody, did his job last season. Until his injuries, Carter was doing exactly what he was supposed to: score, and stop the other team from scoring. Carter is paid to play the best hockey he can, and it's not only hoped for but expected of top six centers to be defensively responsible.

Look at the games of Simon Gagne, Mike Richards, and even Claude Giroux. They don't just bring offense. Gagne offered a fantastic two way game, Richards has a strong knack for turning defensive situations into offensive ones, and who can forget how Claude Giroux has kept the puck in the offensive zone single handedly wasting precious seconds during the penalty kill? Why do you think Pavel Datsyuk pulls $6.7 million (AAV) as a top six center? Why do you think we made it to the stanley cup and remained competitive against an offensive powerhouse while icing a waiver wire goalie? As admirable as his performance was, it wasn't just he and the blue line keeping the puck out.

I think all players have a defined role on a team and they are paid to perform that particular role.

Though they expect Zherdev to check, they won't expect him to lead the team in plus/minus. And although they expect Betts to pop a few in from time to time, they shouldn't expect him to be in the top five in scoring.
- 77rams

Thats exactly right. Carter is on the team for his offensive contributions first. Thats where his bread and butter are. Thats why he is making millions while Blair Betts (who might just be the best defensive forward on the team) is making under a mill.

correct, he earns extra money because he can score, on top of his defensive responsibilities.

he's not paid to just score goals, and the defensive stuff is just a bonus.
- marooninja

I'm not certain it's a bonus. I would believe part of Carter's role is to check also. He's a very good defensive center, often matched up against the other team's top centers.

correct, he earns extra money because he can score, on top of his defensive responsibilities.

he's not paid to just score goals, and the defensive stuff is just a bonus.
- marooninja

No doubt, but the way i interpreted what the poster was implying, was that Carter is making alot of money to put up alot of points. If his sole purpose is to play defensively responsible hockey, he has no business making the money he is making.

Also, its not just an added perk to have defensive responsibilities. Its something that has to happen. Other wise, you could have all the talent in the world, and still struggle to find work. Look no further then Zherdev, who btw, led all Rangers in points AND +- 2 seasons ago.



EDIT:

I guess my point is that, its kind of a two way street. You cant just be a purely one dimensional player. However, the money is definately directly proportional to points.

No doubt, but the way i interpreted what the poster was implying, was that Carter is making alot of money to put up alot of points. If his sole purpose is to play defensively responsible hockey, he has no business making the money he is making.

Also, its not just an added perk to have defensive responsibilities. Its something that has to happen. Other wise, you could have all the talent in the world, and still struggle to find work. Look no further then Zherdev, who btw, led all Rangers in points AND +- 2 seasons ago.



EDIT:

I guess my point is that, its kind of a two way street. You cant just be a purely one dimensional player. However, the money is definately directly proportional to points.
- jak521

That's exactly the original point: Carter is paid the money he's paid because he's a two way player. He's our top scorer, plus he's positionally aware and generally responsible defensively. He can play each sid effectively without hindering the other. He is streaky, no denying that, but that's how big offensive talent works.

No doubt, but the way i interpreted what the poster was implying, was that Carter is making alot of money to put up alot of points. If his sole purpose is to play defensively responsible hockey, he has no business making the money he is making.

Also, its not just an added perk to have defensive responsibilities. Its something that has to happen. Other wise, you could have all the talent in the world, and still struggle to find work. Look no further then Zherdev, who btw, led all Rangers in points AND +- 2 seasons ago.



EDIT:

I guess my point is that, its kind of a two way street. You cant just be a purely one dimensional player. However, the money is definately directly proportional to points.
- jak521

yes, this. included in carters game is defensive ability, and im sure it might add some $$ to his contract. but hes highly paid and highly sought after because of his ability to score. there is no debating that. he could be one the worst defensive players in the league, but anyone who can pop in 40 goals a year is going to get paid.

pains me to agree with you but i am. when carter isnt scoring there is a noticeable difference in his game. plus, carter is paid to put the biscuit in the basket, not for an excellent two way game.
- flyershockey

So Carter isn't paid to play defense and check, win faceoffs, or play on the PK. Or play good all around solid Hockey. He's just paid to score goals. I wonder if Laviolette and Holmgren are aware of this?

So Carter isn't paid to play defense and check, win faceoffs, or play on the PK. Or play good all around solid Hockey. He's just paid to score goals. I wonder if Laviolette and Holmgren are aware of this?
- MJL

Actually, he's wasting the Flyers money by doing those things. He's paid to score, so when he's doing anything else it's like posting on forums when I should be finishing my work.

...what were we talking about?

That's exactly the original point: Carter is paid the money he's paid because he's a two way player. He's our top scorer, plus he's positionally aware and generally responsible defensively. He can play each sid effectively without hindering the other. He is streaky, no denying that, but that's how big offensive talent works.
- BulliesPhan87

I would be willing to bet that if there were two Carters, and both Carters played the same 2 way game, but Carter A only scored 20 goals a season where as Carter B scored 35+ goals a season, Carter A wouldnt be able to SNIFF the amount of money Carter B would be making.

I understand your point, but ultimately his point scoring is what is letting him make his money.

Zherdev, who ended up taking a job in Russia because he is so defensively incompetent, and lazy, earned 4 million dollars in arbitration. Again, Blair Betts is a superb defensive forward, and he doesnt crack one million.

im not saying he becomes danny briere defensively, but you can tell when he isnt scoring that his complete effort isnt there. i think most players are like that.

as for "paid for defensive responsibility" i completely disagree. carter is paid because he scores goals. just like every other goal scorer. if he has a good defensive game as well, thats great. but scorers are paid to be scorers.
- flyershockey

No scorers are paid more than players who are just good defensively. Carter is paid based on his play in his entirety. And scoring is part of that.
And I disagree that his complete effort isn't there when he isn't scoring. I'd say that can be true at certain times. But it's the exception, not the norm.

So Carter isn't paid to play defense and check, win faceoffs, or play on the PK. Or play good all around solid Hockey. He's just paid to score goals. I wonder if Laviolette and Holmgren are aware of this?
- MJL

he does one thing better than pretty much everyone else on this team. this is score goals. thats why he is paid the big dollars. every center is expected to check, win faceoffs, be responsible defensively. but you dont get paid big $$ to do those things. ask blair betts, as was mentioned. he gets paid big money because of his ability to score goals.

edit: lets do a little comparison with betts. he is better defensively, on faceoffs and on the pk. carter is better offensively. betts makes 700k. carter makes 5 mil. i rest my case.

Actually, he's wasting the Flyers money by doing those things. He's paid to score, so when he's doing anything else it's like posting on forums when I should be finishing my work.

...what were we talking about?
- BulliesPhan87

Exactly. When Carter isn't actually scoring a goal, and instead is playing away from the puck, or playing on the PK,he's not doing what he's paid to do. That's insubordination and he should immediately be benched.

So Carter isn't paid to play defense and check, win faceoffs, or play on the PK. Or play good all around solid Hockey. He's just paid to score goals. I wonder if Laviolette and Holmgren are aware of this?
- MJL

So you would be fine with Carter making 5+ mil, or hell the seven mill you think he is worth, as long as he plays defense and checks, wins faceoffs, and plays on the pk?

The point is that Jeff Carter is first and for most making the kind of money he is making, because he will produce points and score big goals, and be the offensive force that he is. Otherwise, he would be Blair Betts.

All this crazy Carter talk. We will see, but what I am thinking about is that Homer really has me concerned about his ability to manage the cap and his assets. In the cap era you need draft picks more then ever. And I don't care what he says, if he doesn't get a different goalie to start the season the off-season was a total sh!!t show. We can talk about Carter's value till the cows come home but what I want to know is,

is the man stirring the ship doing a good job?

If he doesn't get a goalie- I say no!

he does one thing better than pretty much everyone else on this team. this is score goals. thats why he is paid the big dollars. every center is expected to check, win faceoffs, be responsible defensively. but you dont get paid big $$ to do those things. ask blair betts, as was mentioned. he gets paid big money because of his ability to score goals.
- flyershockey

I agree that's a big part of why Carter is paid how he is. But that's not all he's paid to do. He's paid to be a quality player in all aspects of the game.

I would be willing to bet that if there were two Carters, and both Carters played the same 2 way game, but Carter A only scored 20 goals a season where as Carter B scored 35+ goals a season, Carter A wouldnt be able to SNIFF the amount of money Carter B would be making.

I understand your point, but ultimately his point scoring is what is letting him make his money.

Zherdev, who ended up taking a job in Russia because he is so defensively incompetent, and lazy, earned 4 million dollars in arbitration. Again, Blair Betts is a superb defensive forward, and he doesnt crack one million.
- jak521

Defensive responsibility and offensive capability are not independent. By being sound in his defensive game, Carter sees more and longer stays in the offensive zone. Part of getting there is being able to quickly escape your own zone, and getting the puck out of you zone is what I'd consider effective forward defense.

I agree that's a big part of why Carter is paid how he is. But that's not all he's paid to do. He's paid to be a quality player in all aspects of the game.
- MJL

my overall point is that most of his paycheck relates to his ability to score. not saying it is 100% for that, maybe closer 90%.