Exactly. When Carter isn't actually scoring a goal, and instead is playing away from the puck, or playing on the PK,he's not doing what he's paid to do. That's insubordination and he should immediately be benched.
- MJL

I love how when a poster posts something that you disagree with, you immediately bend it WAY out of proportion. Saying he doesnt get paid to play an excellent two way game was a misstatement. However, his net worth is DEFINITELY due to the ability to produce excellent offense.

Defensive responsibility and offensive capability are not independent. By being sound in his defensive game, Carter sees more and longer stays in the offensive zone. Part of getting there is being able to quickly escape your own zone, and getting the puck out of you zone is what I'd consider effective forward defense.
- BulliesPhan87

they can be. kovalchuk sucks defensively and has played on some bad teams, but he still leads the nhl in goals since he entered the league. you dont have to be good defensively to be a stud offensively.

Exactly. When Carter isn't actually scoring a goal, and instead is playing away from the puck, or playing on the PK,he's not doing what he's paid to do. That's insubordination and he should immediately be benched.
- MJL

"Have fun in the bread ine, you defense playing punk!"

correct, he earns extra money because he can score, on top of his defensive responsibilities.

he's not paid to just score goals, and the defensive stuff is just a bonus.
- marooninja

Didnt say that, but at the same time, he can be the best defensive player on the team, and he wouldnt make near the amount of money as the top scorer.

I love how when a poster posts something that you disagree with, you immediately bend it WAY out of proportion. Saying he doesnt get paid to play an excellent two way game was a misstatement. However, his net worth is DEFINITELY due to the ability to produce excellent offense.
- jak521

exactly. even if carter was a huge liability defensively, and well below average on faceoffs, one, he might be moved to wing, and two, he'd still make a ton of money because he can score 40 goals.

they can be. kovalchuk sucks defensively and has played on some bad teams, but he still leads the nhl in goals since he entered the league. you dont have to be good defensively to be a stud offensively.
- flyershockey

His contract for 102 million dollars just got voided because he sucks at defense... duh

my overall point is that most of his paycheck relates to his ability to score. not saying it is 100% for that, maybe closer 90%.
- flyershockey

Datsyuk scored 27 goals this season, rarely goes over 30 (and not by much), and makes $6.7 million each season. I can't imagine there's a team that doesn't want him (in fact, he's arguably among the top forwards in the league), and he isn't putting up crazy numbers of goals. Why could that be?

Datsyuk scored 27 goals this season, rarely goes over 30 (and not by much), and makes $6.7 million each season. I can't imagine there's a team that doesn't want him (in fact, he's arguably among the top forwards in the league), and he isn't putting up crazy numbers of goals. Why could that be?
- BulliesPhan87

in the past 5 years hes had 87, 87, 97, 97 and 70 points. try again.

Datsyuk scored 27 goals this season, rarely goes over 30 (and not by much), and makes $6.7 million each season. I can't imagine there's a team that doesn't want him (in fact, he's arguably among the top forwards in the league), and he isn't putting up crazy numbers of goals. Why could that be?
- BulliesPhan87

Wait, you mean the same Pavel Datsyuk who has back to back 97 point seasons?

Oh and prior to that back to back 87 point seasons. The one who hasmore 30 goal seasons then jeff carter? that one?

All this crazy Carter talk. We will see, but what I am thinking about is that Homer really has me concerned about his ability to manage the cap and his assets. In the cap era you need draft picks more then ever. And I don't care what he says, if he doesn't get a different goalie to start the season the off-season was a total sh!!t show. We can talk about Carter's value till the cows come home but what I want to know is,

is the man stirring the ship doing a good job?

If he doesn't get a goalie- I say no!
- coffee junkie

That's a very hard question to answer. This team went to the Cup finals last ear, so how can you say he's not doing a good job. I beleive they nhave a very good team again this year. Is this team set up well for the future in draft picks, prospects and future Cap space. Absolutely not. So yes and no.

I love how when a poster posts something that you disagree with, you immediately bend it WAY out of proportion. Saying he doesnt get paid to play an excellent two way game was a misstatement. However, his net worth is DEFINITELY due to the ability to produce excellent offense.
- jak521

It's your opinion that I bent it way out of proportion. I don't agree. Carter isn't just paid to score goals. His net worth is due to the entire package of his total game. And goal scoring is a big part of it.

And secondly, I could care less what you think about anything that doesn't have anything to do with the sport of Hockey. So worry about yourself.

Datsyuk scored 27 goals this season, rarely goes over 30 (and not by much), and makes $6.7 million each season. I can't imagine there's a team that doesn't want him (in fact, he's arguably among the top forwards in the league), and he isn't putting up crazy numbers of goals. Why could that be?
- BulliesPhan87

chris drury
scott gomez
michal handzus
mike fisher

just to name a couple centers who were significantly compensated for defensive abilities

It's your opinion that I bent it way out of proportion. I don't agree. Carter isn't just paid to score goals. His net worth is due to the entire package of his total game. And goal scoring is a big part of it.

And secondly, I could care less what you think about anything that doesn't have anything to do with the sport of Hockey. So worry about yourself.
- MJL

Yup, my opinion.

So say jeff carter scores 20 goals next year, adds 30 assists, but has the best defensive season of his career... you still paying him his 7 mil

That's a very hard question to answer. This team went to the Cup finals last ear, so how can you say he's not doing a good job. I beleive they nhave a very good team again this year. Is this team set up well for the future in draft picks, prospects and future Cap space. Absolutely not. So yes and no.
- MJL

I agree with you there. I think we are a competitor this year as well. Are we better then Washington or Pittsburg? Wow, that's a hard question.

But talk me off the edge if he doesn't switch up the goalie.
Looking at Turco's stats I would say he doesn't look as if he is slowing down too much to get a two year contract. I think he would be fine if he could share the load a bit.

I agree with you there. I think we are a competitor this year as well. Are we better then Washington or Pittsburg? Wow, that's a hard question.

But talk me off the edge if he doesn't switch up the goalie.
Looking at Turco's stats I would say he doesn't look as if he is slowing down too much to get a two year contract. I think he would be fine if he could share the load a bit.
- coffee junkie

would you really want to share the load though? if they bring in turco its to be the starter. a lot of the posters here think ellis/mason etc would have been an upgrade, i think mostly bc the grass is always greener on the other side. they were no goalies available that would have provided a significant upgrade. so he made upgrades elsewhere.

chris drury
scott gomez
michal handzus
mike fisher

just to name a couple centers who were significantly compensated for defensive abilities
- FlyerMike18

Funny, three of the 4 are widely considered to be over paid.

Also, 2 of them were signed by a GM who is WIDELY KNOWN to give ridiculous contracts. Gomez, was signed to be the playmaking scorer on that team and was traded away because he wasnt producing.

Nobody wants to touch the Drury contract, nor the Hanzus contract.

Fisher is the only legit player on there, and again, if he were able to produce points, he would be paid a significantly higher salary.

Wait, you mean the same Pavel Datsyuk who has back to back 97 point seasons?

Oh and prior to that back to back 87 point seasons. The one who hasmore 30 goal seasons then jeff carter? that one?
- jak521

In regards to the 30 goal seasons, he's had one more 30 goal season in eight seasons compared to Carter's five.

As for the assists, that only reinforces my point. Positional awareness lends itself to assists, and generates offense from a defensive sensibility. By playing the other side of the game well, he enables those at the wing to do more offensively. Simply put, Pavel's defense makes the offensive players around him better.

My point isn't that he or Carter is paid only to play defense, it's that defense does not comprise 10% of either of their salaries, if it even makes sense to break down their pay that way.

Funny, three of the 4 are widely considered to be over paid.

Also, 2 of them were signed by a GM who is WIDELY KNOWN to give ridiculous contracts. Gomez, was signed to be the playmaking scorer on that team and was traded away because he wasnt producing.

Nobody wants to touch the Drury contract, nor the Hanzus contract.

Fisher is the only legit player on there, and again, if he were able to produce points, he would be paid a significantly higher salary.
- jak521

guy doesnt need it now, hes got his cash cow.

In regards to the 30 goal seasons, he's had one more 30 goal season in eight seasons compared to Carter's five.

As for the assists, that only reinforces my point. Positional awareness lends itself to assists, and generates offense from a defensive sensibility. By playing the other side of the game well, he enables those at the wing to do more offensively. Simply put, Pavel's defense makes the offensive players around him better.

My point isn't that he or Carter is paid only to play defense, it's that defense does not comprise 10% of either of their salaries, if it even makes sense to break down their pay that way.
- BulliesPhan87

or, pavel is an extremely talented player and usually plays with zetterberg. enough with the positional awareness. its not why he has 50+ assists most years. its because he is a great passer/playmaker. betts has great positional awareness but doesnt have great assist numbers.

would you really want to share the load though? if they bring in turco its to be the starter. a lot of the posters here think ellis/mason etc would have been an upgrade, i think mostly bc the grass is always greener on the other side. they were no goalies available that would have provided a significant upgrade. so he made upgrades elsewhere.
- flyershockey

Turco starting would make Leighton as a backup feel a lot better. More than just a backup, Leighton represents a viable plan B.

would you really want to share the load though? if they bring in turco its to be the starter. a lot of the posters here think ellis/mason etc would have been an upgrade, i think mostly bc the grass is always greener on the other side. they were no goalies available that would have provided a significant upgrade. so he made upgrades elsewhere.
- flyershockey

I just have to disagree. Your stating that a journey man goalie with no past success and Boosher who has been at best a back up the past few years are just as good as Turco, Theodore, or the others that have already been picked up? I understand the "grass is always greener," but keeping with the two goalies we have is "hope." Other then the PO run last year they have nothing else to show for themselves in the last 5 years. I'm a betting man, and I don't like what I see.

Ask anyone in Hockey where the Flyer's perceived weakness on paper is and what do you think they will say?

I agree with you there. I think we are a competitor this year as well. Are we better then Washington or Pittsburg? Wow, that's a hard question.

But talk me off the edge if he doesn't switch up the goalie.
Looking at Turco's stats I would say he doesn't look as if he is slowing down too much to get a two year contract. I think he would be fine if he could share the load a bit.
- coffee junkie

I agree with you that goalie the goalies should have been addressed. Especially if we managed to bring in Shelley for 1.2 and Walker for 1.7. I would much rather have spent that money (2.9) on a goalie. However, if Leighton is able to duplicate last seasons success outside of the cup finals, we will be MUCH better. Do i think it was a case of luck for Leighton? No, what i think is that he fits very well with the team, and sometimes thats better then having the best goalie in the world. The team seems to play a different game when he is in net. They trust him, and it shows. We made our defense 100 times better then last season. Again, all i can do is cheer for the flyers, and thats exactly what i plan on doing.

Turco starting would make Leighton as a backup feel a lot better. More than just a backup, Leighton represents a viable plan B.
- BulliesPhan87

I agree, and Boucher is a good backup but not a plan B. All your eggs with Leighton is scary. Shoot, I would prefer Emery over what we have. Turco/Leighton I am comfortable with. I would even prefer Theodore/ Leighton or Truco/ Boucher.

Funny, three of the 4 are widely considered to be over paid.

Also, 2 of them were signed by a GM who is WIDELY KNOWN to give ridiculous contracts. Gomez, was signed to be the playmaking scorer on that team and was traded away because he wasnt producing.

Nobody wants to touch the Drury contract, nor the Hanzus contract.

Fisher is the only legit player on there, and again, if he were able to produce points, he would be paid a significantly higher salary.
- jak521

consider them overpaid all you want. a good portion of the money they are getting is for defense. drury had 2 30 goal seasons out of 8 and never cracked 70 points when he signed. north of 7 mil? his defensive game definitely contributed a good deal to that number. it had to

similar circumstances with all of those guys

I just have to disagree. Your stating that a journey man goalie with no past success and Boosher who has been at best a back up the past few years are just as good as Turco, Theodore, or the others that have already been picked up? I understand the "grass is always greener," but keeping with the two goalies we have is "hope." Other then the PO run last year they have nothing else to show for themselves in the last 5 years. I'm a betting man, and I don't like what I see.

Ask anyone in Hockey where the Flyer's perceived weakness on paper is and what do you think they will say?
- coffee junkie

id be perfectly ok with turco or theodore at the right price. i dont think they are huge upgrades but definitely an upgrade with a track record. i dont think ellis or mason were the answer though. neither of them have proven anything either. im still not ready to completely give up on leighton. it could be he was overwhelmed by the spotlight, but before that, regular season and playoffs, he was solid if not above average most of the time. that has to count for something.